Plebes Dropping Already

I’m on summer break and have some work going on in the house which dangerously allows me time to ponder a couple things. Upon learning that a couple or handful or maybe more plebes have dropped/left before plebe summer even starts, I wonder what life back home is like for both the kid who thus far has only been isolated in a room without their phone, and the parents who also went through the application process and spent 18 years raising a child qualified to attend a service academy. I understand the isolation without a phone and also know first hand about the phone addiction kids have today, but, it’s not like the academies are hiding the fact that life will not be fun.

My second pondering is actually memories such as reporting to boot camp and wondering what the heck I was doing there. Not really because boot camp was easy for me but field medical school, twice, was not fun or easy. It’s a Marine Corps school. Kind of like Marine boot camp for corpsmen. One doesn’t have to be a Marine to know their boot camp is tough. That event and the iconic Marine DI are epic. America’s children can’t leave that place. Legally anyway. I highly recommend watching videos of long haired civilians standing on those famous yellow footprints and the ferocious Drill Instructors doing what DIs do. uhggg, scary. Anyway, that reminded me of the Marine recruiting poster from way back. This is why people want to be Marines and Corpsmen of Marines. The challenge, the toughness, and the title. Regardless of the suck factor and the desire to leave it, to quit, to just get away, we are glad we stuck it out and did it.

Hadnt heard of losses, but we havent heard a peep from our DS anyway.

I would imagine this 2 week semi-solitary imprisonment would lead to more drops than normal. It has to be harder emotionally. Afterall, they actually have time to think about it.

Devil Doc said:

I’m on summer break and have some work going on in the house which dangerously allows me time to ponder a couple things. Upon learning that a couple or handful or maybe more plebes have dropped/left before plebe summer even starts, I wonder what life back home is like for both the kid who thus far has only been isolated in a room without their phone, and the parents who also went through the application process and spent 18 years raising a child qualified to attend a service academy. I understand the isolation without a phone and also know first hand about the phone addiction kids have today, but, it’s not like the academies are hiding the fact that life will not be fun.

My second pondering is actually memories such as reporting to boot camp and wondering what the heck I was doing there. Not really because boot camp was easy for me but field medical school, twice, was not fun or easy. It’s a Marine Corps school. Kind of like Marine boot camp for corpsmen. One doesn’t have to be a Marine to know their boot camp is tough. That event and the iconic Marine DI are epic. America’s children can’t leave that place. Legally anyway. I highly recommend watching videos of long haired civilians standing on those famous yellow footprints and the ferocious Drill Instructors doing what DIs do. uhggg, scary. Anyway, that reminded me of the Marine recruiting poster from way back. This is why people want to be Marines and Corpsmen of Marines. The challenge, the toughness, and the title. Regardless of the suck factor and the desire to leave it, to quit, to just get away, we are glad we stuck it out and did it.

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Part of it is beyond the phone. It is the loss of everything...and before anyone yells at me, remember that these are people that have never done without. But they are very much experiencing a lot of loss: Senior year. Sports. Grad parties. Celebrating with friends. Since March already. Nothing. And now they are isolated, alone with their thoughts. Looking at no parents weekend. No celebrations on the yard (4th of July was the first). The track and boxing smokers. Food is blah (cold in a box from King Hall). No games. No liberty. Locked down until Thanksgiving (that's what is the scuttlebutt). No rewards really. My point is that It's more than not having their phones.

Many people in general are tired of all of this. And a young, untrained plebe away from home locked in a room without contact, for the most part, could break. I truly feel the most challenging part of this plebe summer will be the mental fortitude....and realizing they are already coming in with a lot of "dumped on" baggage already. My guy is in observation iso and actually has to have his phone for that reason. And that, IMO, is a bigger challenge than NOT having their phones as they are connected to home still (my guy is doing fine btw). Additionally, they all have their computers (a necessity), but can access social media, etc via them. Easy to see what they are missing.

This plebe summer has none of the 'removal of time' or 'busy from dawn to dusk'. There is a certain boredom factor that usually isn't there, either. All those things are non-existent during a regular summer, imo.

So, It's more than what you are wondering about. More than their loss of phone. In fact, that is the least of it all, imo. And it's ALSO more than the plebes....social media is on fire with the thought of Mids returning and being locked down. Mids currently there are about to be done with plebe detail, done with summer school and are stuck there with nothing to do. They, too are voicing their opinions. There are concerns about this, too. Mids that have been home since March, looking to return and be locked down until ??? ESPECIALLY the upper-class. There is a mental health factor in COVID to all society, including plebes and Mids.

Devil Doc said:

This is why people want to be Marines and Corpsmen of Marines. The challenge, the toughness, and the title.

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I am the first to admit, USMC knows how to do boot camp. Over the years, I've seen several young, frightened HS kids go away and come back from boot camp as confident young men. The transformation is amazing !

I knew a USMC DI pretty well back when I was in HS. He was one of our Civil Air Patrol leaders, and was quite the character. He was a SSGT stationed at the local Reserve depot, so still active duty and just fresh from DI duty (I don't recall which Coast). Some of the stories he would tell about running recruits were scary, but I learned enough from him to recognize that both NAPS INDOC and Plebe Summer were kind of a cakewalk.

justme said:

I would imagine this 2 week semi-solitary imprisonment would lead to more drops than normal. It has to be harder emotionally. Afterall, they actually have time to think about it.

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There is a lot of truth in this statement. Sitting in your room, thinking about the unknown has to be trying mentally. That is one of the reasons that the Plebes normally get the "shock and awe" treatment on I Day, as well as right after Parents Weekend. It gets the head back in the game and focused on the mission.

Talked to one of the Plebe Summer chaplains about this a couple days ago. The first few days were hard for a lot of plebes. Even though there was no yelling, the complete loss of their freedom and individuality combined with being thrown in an unknown environment still takes a toll. The isolation and boredom don’t help either. One Plebe emailed his parents and they drove here to pick him up, and leadership allowed him to DOR. A few companies had a plebe not show up and only have 39 instead of 40. Word from the grapevine is that the Plebes have started to get more comfortable here. Admittedly that won’t last very long once they meet their Detailers, but it sounds like many Plebes have gotten better at coping and are excited to start the summer. Some may still be thinking of leaving, but that’s why it’s generally not allowed until a week into the training. A lot of people would quit in the first few days if given the option but they get adapt before too long and decide they can ride it out.

@justdoit19 that’s what I was wondering about for sure but also truly wonder about the kid and family now at home after all it took to get there. I suppose my post sounds like I’m taking a swipe at their predicament. I know starting PS instead of this isolation and waiting would have been much better.

Kierkegaard said:

... Word from the grapevine is that the Plebes have started to get more comfortable here. Admittedly that won’t last very long once they meet their Detailers, but it sounds like many Plebes have gotten better at coping and are excited to start the summer. ...

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This sounds promising. I would hope they have hit their groove and see the light by now. For plebes used to running high energy all day, I am sure standing/sitting for hours at a time has to get unnerving.

Isolated from friends and family with little to no contact with outside. No idea when it is going to end. Sounds a lot like deployment. Sorry, but not a ton of sympathy for them. They knew it was going to be hard going in. If there are people actually quitting before Plebe Summer even really starts, then it's probably a good thing that they aren't staying.

I concur with what @justdoit19 said. Our 2 letters from our plebe arrived Monday, dated 2 July. He is bored out of his mind. No roommate, strict company not allowing emails or google message (I am fine with that, expected it). Other parents with kids in different companies have had comms from their kids. Athletes have zoom with coaches and other teammates. For those that are solo, like mine and JustDoIt, I get the boredom, and the head game. Yes, they knew it would suck. Yes, they knew no communication with parents. But plebes for decades have had the carrot dangling from the stick of parent weekend. If I can just get through this, I have that at the end. These kids don't have that. And 17-18 days alone in a room with no music, no phone, no comms with family, and time to kill is not healthy. And, with the risk of getting slammed here, it isn't deployment. I can really not think of a situation where a sailor would be alone 12 hours a day for 18 days, with no exercise, or sun, or rain or fresh air.
My kid signed up, and we talked about this ROM before he left. I believe he will power through, and this ROM is not an indicator of their future lifestyle at the academy.
But for anyone on the bubble, this can be the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back. As a mom of a covid senior, I can attest to how much these kids lost. How much their parents lost. And I have constantly reminded myself, that losing all of the milestones and anticipated experiences and memories are minute in the big scheme of things (I tell myself he lost his senior trip, he isn't spending his senior trip like those in '68 did in Vietnam), it did and does still take a toll.
He and I discussed semper gumby. And that looking at this through a positive lense, his class of 2024 may well be better prepared for military service than some that came before them. They know what it is like to have plans cancelled, hopes dashed, expectations not met. So when their life in the fleet takes an unanticipated turn, or a duty station is changed, or leave cancelled, they know how to handle it.

I am not trying to whine. It is what it is, I hope they can dig deep and power through mentally. I am sending innane letters about the garage, the weather, the dog and the damn free loading squirrels I am attempting to live trap and relocate (to my least favorite neighbor's property). I hope the innanity of what he reads about from home will help whittle away the days until he gets his butt handed to him after 17 July.

For those who have dropped, maybe it was mom's idea, not theirs. Maybe the dream of USNA was not the plebes, and the DOR was the right decision. We will never know. Makes me sad either way for all concerned.

gonavy14 said:

Isolated from friends and family with little to no contact with outside. No idea when it is going to end. Sounds a lot like deployment. Sorry, but not a ton of sympathy for them. They knew it was going to be hard going in. If there are people actually quitting before Plebe Summer even really starts, then it's probably a good thing that they aren't staying.

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Yeah this gets to the whole purpose of Plebe Summer, testing the incoming plebes’ basic resilience in a tightly controlled environment where mistakes don’t lead to disasters as they can in the Fleet. If someone can’t handle the pain from being away from friends/family or being powerless and getting berated, then the reasoning goes, could they maintain their composure in the trials of a deployment? When the ship collides, or the plane is being fired at, or when they’re captured by Iranians as happened to 10 sailors in 2016. Plebe Summer is a humane and safe way to simulate the stress of scenarios like those and ensure the Plebes can tolerate it.

From what I understand, solitary confinement really messes with your head. I suppose this is a similar experience. But dropping after such a short period indicates the Plebe didn't have the heart for it in the first place.

14 days in isolation with something to read, new skills to practice, and access to a computer. Add 3 squares a day, a lav and shower in your room, a head down the pway, plus 1 hour every day outside.

I would pay money to do that for 2 weeks.

Devil Doc said:

@justdoit19 that’s what I was wondering about for sure but also truly wonder about the kid and family now at home after all it took to get there. I suppose my post sounds like I’m taking a swipe at their predicament. I know starting PS instead of this isolation and waiting would have been much better.

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The thing is, they really arent going back to much. Kids will move on eventually. and every college/university is in a cruddy situation as far a 'fun'. so the reality, is that your 'back hom' isn't as good as you think it will be.

Someone that left will likely be in the basement, doing online school. USNA sounds better than that!!

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Not riding it out for 6 weeks, 5, 4, 3, 2, or at least 1 short week .... Surely they had a good “talking-to” before the DOR was granted. Measure Twice — Cut once. No crying shame. DOR is best. Perhaps there are still some lucky Wait-listers available to call up.

I am going to flip this thing upside down .... there are thousands upon thousands of young adults, me included, who are never afforded the opportunity that these appointees have been handed. There is a kid out there, in someways just like me, who was on their back incapacitated, one or several times from an early age ... and didn’t know if they would make it to the next day. These kids were blind sided by some unfortunate event, or have chronic conditions like me that will rear it’s ugly head. Many of these kids would “Fit very well” in some role in the Armed services of this country, and would become great leaders.

Real pain, life’s ugly terms, has a way of sharpening survival instincts. It’s all mental.
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First, let me say that I have no idea what the plebes are allowed and not allowed to have while on ROM. It appears that they have their computers which opens up a world of possibilities. Most situations are what you make of them. Learn to play chess. Try to learn a language. Read books. It's two weeks, not forever. Come Saturday, they will have most of what everyone else had during PS.

As for being locked down, our PS we never got off the Yard. There was a baseball strike so we missed the Orioles game. We never had a WE all year so our first overnight was T-giving. Yes, we could go into town on Saturday afternoons (not Sundays) during Ac Year, but that was it. The ones who I feel for are the upper class, who actually have a lot of freedom during Ac Year -- my guess (it's ONLY that) is that will be significantly curtailed if the COVID situation doesn't improve.

As for missing graduation, etc. -- yes, it's tough for a 17-year-old experiencing it for the first time. For those of us who spent time in the military, we can't count the number of major events we missed. Graduations, weddings, funerals. No one likes it, but it's a fact of life. And virtually everyone in the country went through it.

A lot of kids have never been away from home or experienced and kind of real hardship. I went away to summer camp for a month when I was 7 years old. The only form of communication was via mail. It got me to grow up fast. Not everyone has that experience. It is unfortunate that kids can drop out so easily. If the stuck with it, they would toughen-up. But, perhaps it is an indication of unsuitability for a Naval career. Better to freak out now than on duty in a ballistic missile sub under the polar ice cap.

My son shared a FB memory a few minutes ago of me rendering his first salute at his commissioning at the Marine Corps Museum. He commissioned on this date nine years ago. He took two extra classes at his mid ranked state school to get a minor and we did a solo ceremony. It was simple but the most awesome military ceremony I had ever seen, and that salute was my life’s most highest honor.

He was recruited for football by Paul Johnson and we got the royal treatment. Home game seats on the 50 yard line and calls from his recruiting coach. Hanging on the sideline during pregame warmups. Coach got who he wanted and my son didn’t make it. He could have continued in the admissions process but he wanted football more than he wanted the Naval Academy.

I’m just rambling now I guess. My wife, dog, and I are in double quarantine in the basement due to the tradesmen working topside. I feel a sadness for those who left and their parents. The kid is probably kicking themselves for punching out so quickly. The parents are and I guarantee this, searching their brains and looking for clues about what went wrong. It wasn’t supposed to be this way. All things pointed to greatness and now he’s home. Most parents will go through the stages of grieving in silence. They don’t want to show disappointment. They’re not disappointed in their kid per se, but are surely disappointed in the choice to quit.

Mine meandered to and through five schools before graduating. More than once he said he wanted to enlist. I said good, I’ll drive you to the recruiter. I’ve already looked up the address. His mom, my wife, said no. If you want to join the military then graduate first and join as an officer. She didn’t say that from a position of haughtiness but of being the wife of an enlisted man plus she was prior enlisted. His journey has made him a better officer I believe. Young people who had what it takes to get in an SA, have what it takes to pick up and move on.

To get into a SA they should have spent time away from home. Scouts? Sea Cadets? NASS? SLCDA? Sports camps? ect..

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Open Military service and admission to the SAs to the broken. Good things will happen.

Camp for some kids is a life long battle .... They’re hardened for success.
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