My D will graduate with 8 varsity letters. She was a team captain last year and is one this year. My question is the following: Is one varsity letter just as good as 8? Does a person with one varsity letter get just as many "points" in the category of athletics as a person with multiple letters? I ask this because I have heard of canidates that don't have a varsity letter and then join the cross country team in their senior year just so they can "check the box."
1 varsity letter vs multiple varsity letters
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Pima
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I am sure she will get more points than someone who only joins in their sr yr, but I don't think 8 varsity letters will get her a ton of more points. The captain position helps alot because she is the team leader and that will be highlighted.
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Hi!
8 Varsity letters is a great achievement!!!
Okay, now an ALO reality check: I wouldn't put too much on the number "8" as I would, as PIMA stated, her election/selection as captain of the team, not once but twice. The Captain is the leader, the acknowledged "representative" of the team and in a way of the entire school. While its true a lot of teams, groups, etc., make this about popularity, the fact remains that the teachers/coaches have to "buy into" the choice and they usually are more objective. So when I meet a "team captain" it's usually very obvious that this person has EARNED that honor and they're universally very impressive!
So a student-athlete that comes to me with 1 varsity letter and being either "the" team captain, or in her case "twice selected as team captain" would actually recieve a higher modicum of respect from me than would a student that simply was a really good athlete.
The academy is filled to the brim with good athletes! What we really are searching for are leaders: students that have shown the ability to lead and to "step up" and take a positive stand (team captains have done this by default). THAT is our goal: to find the future leaders of the air force.
Because when it all is said and done the question is this: can I as an ALO see perhaps the future Chief of Staff of the Air Force in this candidate before me? I realize that sounds silly but...you can see things with these amazing kids. I look at classmates of mine that I went to prep school with. Back then...we were 18...and we could see several folks that just "stood out" and were impressive leaders amongst us then.
Today? The ones I know really well?
They're wearing the stars of general officers. And I fully expect one of them to make it all the way to 4 stars.
Worry not about your daughter. I'm certain her ALO will be VERY impressed with her and his/her evaluation will be suitably laudatory!
Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
8 Varsity letters is a great achievement!!!
Okay, now an ALO reality check: I wouldn't put too much on the number "8" as I would, as PIMA stated, her election/selection as captain of the team, not once but twice. The Captain is the leader, the acknowledged "representative" of the team and in a way of the entire school. While its true a lot of teams, groups, etc., make this about popularity, the fact remains that the teachers/coaches have to "buy into" the choice and they usually are more objective. So when I meet a "team captain" it's usually very obvious that this person has EARNED that honor and they're universally very impressive!
So a student-athlete that comes to me with 1 varsity letter and being either "the" team captain, or in her case "twice selected as team captain" would actually recieve a higher modicum of respect from me than would a student that simply was a really good athlete.
The academy is filled to the brim with good athletes! What we really are searching for are leaders: students that have shown the ability to lead and to "step up" and take a positive stand (team captains have done this by default). THAT is our goal: to find the future leaders of the air force.
Because when it all is said and done the question is this: can I as an ALO see perhaps the future Chief of Staff of the Air Force in this candidate before me? I realize that sounds silly but...you can see things with these amazing kids. I look at classmates of mine that I went to prep school with. Back then...we were 18...and we could see several folks that just "stood out" and were impressive leaders amongst us then.
Today? The ones I know really well?
They're wearing the stars of general officers. And I fully expect one of them to make it all the way to 4 stars.
Worry not about your daughter. I'm certain her ALO will be VERY impressed with her and his/her evaluation will be suitably laudatory!
Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
Pima
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Not knowing her gpa/SAT/EC stats, but if they are strong, even from a competitive state she should be in.
The reality is someone who is that athletic should be able to hit the CFA out of the ball park which helps.
If she has mid 600's on ea SAT part, and a strong 3.5 uw gpa, she will probably have the WCS to win the appt.
If her gpa is 3.0, and her SAT is just breaking 600, than it is a different story.
The reality is someone who is that athletic should be able to hit the CFA out of the ball park which helps.
If she has mid 600's on ea SAT part, and a strong 3.5 uw gpa, she will probably have the WCS to win the appt.
If her gpa is 3.0, and her SAT is just breaking 600, than it is a different story.
Thanks for your input!
She is in the top 1% of her class at very large public school. Her ACT composite score is 29. She's taking it again this Saturday.
She's also Wing Commander of a very large JROTC program...400 cadets.
Even with all the athletics, she is having trouble with pull ups. This is something she knows she needs to work on in the next few weeks.
She is in the top 1% of her class at very large public school. Her ACT composite score is 29. She's taking it again this Saturday.
She's also Wing Commander of a very large JROTC program...400 cadets.
Even with all the athletics, she is having trouble with pull ups. This is something she knows she needs to work on in the next few weeks.
Pima
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Where are you from?
Top 1% and a 29 ACT is strange especially for a JROTC with 400 cadets. 400 cadets in a hs is out the door! I don't know of ROTC dets at colleges that have that many. What is the size of the graduation class that can have kids in the JROTC program?
FWIW her ACT is not stellar and that is a part of the major component (PAR =60%) for the WCS...what is her actual gpa uw and w. How many APs/IBs does she have under her belt?
These are things I would pay more attention to then how many varsity letters.
Top 1% and a 29 ACT is strange especially for a JROTC with 400 cadets. 400 cadets in a hs is out the door! I don't know of ROTC dets at colleges that have that many. What is the size of the graduation class that can have kids in the JROTC program?
FWIW her ACT is not stellar and that is a part of the major component (PAR =60%) for the WCS...what is her actual gpa uw and w. How many APs/IBs does she have under her belt?
These are things I would pay more attention to then how many varsity letters.
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I guess you were expecting a much higher score since she is in the top 1% of her class. I've been lurking around this website long enough to know that 29 is not high. I wish I could say that it is higher but it is not.
My older daughter is an AFROTC cadet at a very large university and her detachment has just over 100 cadets, so I know what you are talking about.
I know it is hard to believe but we really do have 400 cadets in our JROTC program. We have incredible instructors who know how to build a program and attract students.
As for the disparity in numbers of cadets in college and our high school, consider that some college cadets have made a commitment to military service and others are very close. In high school it is not a big decision to try JROTC.
I appreciate your comments Flieger83 and Pima!
My older daughter is an AFROTC cadet at a very large university and her detachment has just over 100 cadets, so I know what you are talking about.
I know it is hard to believe but we really do have 400 cadets in our JROTC program. We have incredible instructors who know how to build a program and attract students.
As for the disparity in numbers of cadets in college and our high school, consider that some college cadets have made a commitment to military service and others are very close. In high school it is not a big decision to try JROTC.
I appreciate your comments Flieger83 and Pima!
Just_A_Mom
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jmark1616 -
How is the ACT broken out? It translates roughly to a 1300 SAT (M&CR) or just under a 2000. That is not a bad score, especially if the Math is strong. It is probably high enough to qualify her for admission.
She can take it again and she can also take the SAT.
pull-ups - many females, even athletic ones, have difficulties with pull ups. If she can't do one she can do the flex arm hang. You also can buy a pull up bar at a sporting good store and mount it in a doorway so she can practice.
Your daughter sounds like a great candidate to any service academy - I hope she takes the time to check out the fantastic athletic opportunities at AFA.
Good Luck to her.
How is the ACT broken out? It translates roughly to a 1300 SAT (M&CR) or just under a 2000. That is not a bad score, especially if the Math is strong. It is probably high enough to qualify her for admission.
She can take it again and she can also take the SAT.
pull-ups - many females, even athletic ones, have difficulties with pull ups. If she can't do one she can do the flex arm hang. You also can buy a pull up bar at a sporting good store and mount it in a doorway so she can practice.
Your daughter sounds like a great candidate to any service academy - I hope she takes the time to check out the fantastic athletic opportunities at AFA.
Good Luck to her.
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Composite score is one thing, but the ACT is can be broken into Math and Verbal scores that can be much higher or lower than the composite. On our information system for USNA we see the ACT and SAT scores for only Math and Verbal.
PS: Have had very strong applicants who have received multiple appointments who had NO varsity letters. They were in excellent condition, played on premier leagues or had danced since they were small children. No two candidates are exactly the same.
PS: Have had very strong applicants who have received multiple appointments who had NO varsity letters. They were in excellent condition, played on premier leagues or had danced since they were small children. No two candidates are exactly the same.
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My colleague from Canoe U is correct! (I'm sorry, I couldn't resist a tiny bit of inter-service rivalry)
But...USNA's statement is dead on accurate!
Bravo Zulu!
Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
Just_A_Mom
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To be clear:
The ACT is 4 tests - Math, Reading, English and Science. The composite score is the AVERAGE of these 4 tests. Hence the need to see the breakdown.
The Academies will generally look at the individual score for Math and English.
An individual ACT score of 29 roughly translates to a 650 SAT.
The ACT is 4 tests - Math, Reading, English and Science. The composite score is the AVERAGE of these 4 tests. Hence the need to see the breakdown.
The Academies will generally look at the individual score for Math and English.
An individual ACT score of 29 roughly translates to a 650 SAT.
Pima
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That is why with the ACT composite, you can't jump to the fact that all of them are in the 650 SAT equiv. For example, you can have a 26, 30, 29, 30, which would give you a 29. A 26 V will hurt you since 25 V is considered to be the min needed to be deemed competitive by the AFA. It also puts you below the avg, which is something you never want to be when trying to get an apptmt from a competitive area.
I am still stunned by 400 in a det. not saying that you are lieing or exaggerating, but that is just huge. How many kids are in the grad class? I know at our last hs they probably had 200, but many of these kids do it for one semester to fulfill their humanities credit, thus, I don't really see the det being 200 cadets. I count them as cadets when they do it more than 1 yr because than they are in JROTC because they want to be not to fill a square for graduation. I know for DS he was hated by the AFJROTC since he was not a member of JROTC, but yet the only one that got not only 1 nom, but 4, when none of them received any. (actually through the whole county, not just his hs). He was also the only one to receive an AFROTC scholarship. When it was announced at the awards ceremony these kids were like how did that happen? I think they felt betrayed by the AF for giving 4 yrs of AFJROTC getting nothing from the AF and here comes this kid who never took JROTC and he gets a full ride.
I am still stunned by 400 in a det. not saying that you are lieing or exaggerating, but that is just huge. How many kids are in the grad class? I know at our last hs they probably had 200, but many of these kids do it for one semester to fulfill their humanities credit, thus, I don't really see the det being 200 cadets. I count them as cadets when they do it more than 1 yr because than they are in JROTC because they want to be not to fill a square for graduation. I know for DS he was hated by the AFJROTC since he was not a member of JROTC, but yet the only one that got not only 1 nom, but 4, when none of them received any. (actually through the whole county, not just his hs). He was also the only one to receive an AFROTC scholarship. When it was announced at the awards ceremony these kids were like how did that happen? I think they felt betrayed by the AF for giving 4 yrs of AFJROTC getting nothing from the AF and here comes this kid who never took JROTC and he gets a full ride.
There are 400 cadets enrolled in our JROTC program…this no exaggeration. I don’t know how the numbers break down from year to year but I am sure that the 9th grade has the largest number. It just makes sense. At our school you can take JROTC and receive a PE credit, so this does help the enrollment numbers.
You have every right to be very proud of your DS. He must be a very impressive person to have won all those nominations.
It’s too bad your JROTC had a case of the sour grapes.
You have every right to be very proud of your DS. He must be a very impressive person to have won all those nominations.
It’s too bad your JROTC had a case of the sour grapes.
Pima
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That does make sense for the size, since I have a DD, she would rather do JROTC if that means she doesn't have to take gym and play baseball 
Our school, you only had to take 1 humanities and many take JROTC thinking it is an easy course. Of course they get ticked when they realize that it isn't easy, but actually a real course!
Our school, you only had to take 1 humanities and many take JROTC thinking it is an easy course. Of course they get ticked when they realize that it isn't easy, but actually a real course!