hornetguy
15-Year Member
- Joined
- Jun 9, 2006
- Messages
- 2,353
Have you read the Sparta Pride FAQs I posted yet. These questions are exhaustively answered. And the answers are contrary to your assumptions.
2 Transgender Cadets To Graduate But Will Not Serve
- Thread starter Wishful
- Start date
Have you read the Sparta Pride FAQs I posted yet. These questions are exhaustively answered. And the answers are contrary to your assumptions.
hornetguy
15-Year Member
- Joined
- Jun 9, 2006
- Messages
- 2,353
Some of the FAQs:
Q: Does being transgender mean an individual is psychologically unstable?
A: It does not. In May 2013, the most recent (fifth) edition of Diagnostic and Statistical
Manual of the American Psychiatric Association (DSM-5) was released, which depathologized
gender nonconforming behavior and identities, removed the earlier
Gender Identity Disorder (GID) diagnosis, and placed gender dysphoria in its own
distinct category. The APA states in this document, “It is important to note that gender
nonconformity is not in itself a mental disorder.”7 In the past few years, most major
medical and psychological organizations have adopted positions opposing
discrimination against transgender individuals, including the withholding of medically
necessary care.8
Q: What types of medical care do transgender service members require?
A: Courses of treatment vary from person to person. As with many conditions, the
individual selects treatment options based on the recommendations of his or her doctor
and other consulting specialists.
Treatment typically begins with counseling or psychotherapy to confirm a diagnosis of
gender dysphoria. Counseling also provides the individual with the opportunity to better
understand his or her gender identity, address the negative impact of gender dysphoria
and stigma on mental wellness, enhance social and peer support, and build resilience in
preparation for transition. As part of this process, internationally recognized standards of
care recommend in most cases that the individual begin living part-time or full-time in
the gender role more consistent with their gender identity. This shift is typically made
prior to any further medical intervention and, often, as an eligibility requirement for
receiving such intervention.9
Medical interventions often associated with transition include the following:
• Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) administered via pills, intramuscular
injections, or transdermal patches or gels;
• Surgery to change primary and/or secondary sex characteristics (e.g.,
breasts/chest, external and/or internal genitalia, facial features).10
Standards of Care and Ethical Guidelines for treatment are published and maintained
by the World Professional Organization for Transgender Health (WPATH), an
international professional organization established in 1979.11
Q: What are the projected costs of providing appropriate medical care for
transgender service members?
A: A recent study by the Williams Institute of UCLA showed that in civilian contexts, the
cost to employers of providing transgender individuals with appropriate health care
raised gross premium costs by no more than a four tenths of a percent for large
companies, and as little as four one-hundredths for smaller organizations.12 Applied to
the military context, providing appropriate health care is significantly more cost effective
than discharging transgender service members without cause. For example, it cost over
half a million dollars to train CT3 Landon Wilson13, a U.S. Navy Cryptologic Technician
discharged in 2014 for being transgender, yet the average total lifetime costs of
transition-related claims per individual is less than $30,000.14
Q: Will the DoD be able to provide the medical expertise necessary to care for
transgender service members?
A: Most of the care transgender service members require can be handled by a general
practitioner.15 DoD doctors already perform some of the surgical procedures
transgender service members may need, such as breast reconstruction, augmentation,
reduction, and hysterectomy.16 In those few cases where DoD medical professionals
lack proper expertise or DoD medical facilities are not properly equipped, there are
already administrative systems in place, such as TriCare, to allow service members to
obtain access to appropriate specialists outside DoD.17
Q: Don’t transgender individuals require a lot of extra, specialized medical care
after transition?
A: No. Post-transition, most transgender individuals who are otherwise healthy see a
general practitioner once or twice a year for routine blood work and prescription
renewal.18, 19
Q: Are transgender people deployable to forward locations and other austere
environments?
A: Yes. In fact, DoD has been deploying transgender individuals for over a decade as
civilians and contractors to Afghanistan, Iraq, and the Persian Gulf and embedding them
with US forces there.20, 21, 22 In this capacity, transgender Americans have served openly
in forward locations such as Camp Anaconda and Balad Air Base in Iraq, New Kabul
Compound and Kandahar Air Base in Afghanistan, and aboard US Navy ships
operating in the Persian Gulf. Additionally, our allies have successfully deployed
transgender service members for more than 20 years and into every theater of the war
on terror.23 There are no special medical requirements that would prevent a transgender
service member from deploying to any location where US troops serve today.24
Q: Will providing transgender service members access to necessary medications
place an additional burden on the military health care system?
A: No. The military health care system already provides the medications commonly
used for HRT to non-transgender service members as treatment for other conditions.
HRT for transgender service members would not require new pharmaceuticals,
logistics, or significant cost.25
Q: What if a transgender service member is prevented from accessing their
medications due to logistical or tactical circumstances?
A: Such a situation is highly unlikely. Allied militaries in which transgender individuals
serve openly have found the rate of such occurrences to be extremely low. In those
circumstances where temporary loss of access to HRT medications is truly unavoidable,
the effects are neither debilitating nor life threatening.26, 27
I was on oral HRT from day one as this was prescribed by my NHS
endocrinologist, and simply stocked up from my medical center before
deployment. When I suddenly found myself extended for 2 months in the
Falklands in 2011, I ordered more through the medical center there.28
– Flight Lieutenant Ayla Holdom, RAF
Q: Will transgender service members spend a lot of time in a non-deployable
status?
A: No. Transgender service members in other countries report spending less than six
months total in a medically non-deployable status. Typically, the medical elements of
transition that might affect readiness are scheduled so as not to impact unit readiness
(i.e. while the unit is on a home cycle).
I was kept at G1 A1 Z1 [physically fit for flying and ground deployment
without any restriction] and retained my flying category throughout, with
the exceptions of having a month off flying duties when I began my HRT
(which is the standard time-period for any long-term medication) and 6
months off flying in total, following my Gender Reassignment Surgery
(GRS), during which time I was medically downgraded to P7 (nondeployable)…
Shortly after I began HRT though, before my public
transition, I was deployed for 7 weeks to the Falkland Islands in a flying
role and again for 9 weeks towards the end of my transition, a few months
before my GRS.
I am now A1 P2, which means there’s no restriction to my flying or my
deploying and is simply a marker to show I am on long-term medication.29
– Flight Lieutenant Ayla Holdom, RAF
Q: Does being transgender mean an individual is psychologically unstable?
A: It does not. In May 2013, the most recent (fifth) edition of Diagnostic and Statistical
Manual of the American Psychiatric Association (DSM-5) was released, which depathologized
gender nonconforming behavior and identities, removed the earlier
Gender Identity Disorder (GID) diagnosis, and placed gender dysphoria in its own
distinct category. The APA states in this document, “It is important to note that gender
nonconformity is not in itself a mental disorder.”7 In the past few years, most major
medical and psychological organizations have adopted positions opposing
discrimination against transgender individuals, including the withholding of medically
necessary care.8
Q: What types of medical care do transgender service members require?
A: Courses of treatment vary from person to person. As with many conditions, the
individual selects treatment options based on the recommendations of his or her doctor
and other consulting specialists.
Treatment typically begins with counseling or psychotherapy to confirm a diagnosis of
gender dysphoria. Counseling also provides the individual with the opportunity to better
understand his or her gender identity, address the negative impact of gender dysphoria
and stigma on mental wellness, enhance social and peer support, and build resilience in
preparation for transition. As part of this process, internationally recognized standards of
care recommend in most cases that the individual begin living part-time or full-time in
the gender role more consistent with their gender identity. This shift is typically made
prior to any further medical intervention and, often, as an eligibility requirement for
receiving such intervention.9
Medical interventions often associated with transition include the following:
• Hormone Replacement Therapy (HRT) administered via pills, intramuscular
injections, or transdermal patches or gels;
• Surgery to change primary and/or secondary sex characteristics (e.g.,
breasts/chest, external and/or internal genitalia, facial features).10
Standards of Care and Ethical Guidelines for treatment are published and maintained
by the World Professional Organization for Transgender Health (WPATH), an
international professional organization established in 1979.11
Q: What are the projected costs of providing appropriate medical care for
transgender service members?
A: A recent study by the Williams Institute of UCLA showed that in civilian contexts, the
cost to employers of providing transgender individuals with appropriate health care
raised gross premium costs by no more than a four tenths of a percent for large
companies, and as little as four one-hundredths for smaller organizations.12 Applied to
the military context, providing appropriate health care is significantly more cost effective
than discharging transgender service members without cause. For example, it cost over
half a million dollars to train CT3 Landon Wilson13, a U.S. Navy Cryptologic Technician
discharged in 2014 for being transgender, yet the average total lifetime costs of
transition-related claims per individual is less than $30,000.14
Q: Will the DoD be able to provide the medical expertise necessary to care for
transgender service members?
A: Most of the care transgender service members require can be handled by a general
practitioner.15 DoD doctors already perform some of the surgical procedures
transgender service members may need, such as breast reconstruction, augmentation,
reduction, and hysterectomy.16 In those few cases where DoD medical professionals
lack proper expertise or DoD medical facilities are not properly equipped, there are
already administrative systems in place, such as TriCare, to allow service members to
obtain access to appropriate specialists outside DoD.17
Q: Don’t transgender individuals require a lot of extra, specialized medical care
after transition?
A: No. Post-transition, most transgender individuals who are otherwise healthy see a
general practitioner once or twice a year for routine blood work and prescription
renewal.18, 19
Q: Are transgender people deployable to forward locations and other austere
environments?
A: Yes. In fact, DoD has been deploying transgender individuals for over a decade as
civilians and contractors to Afghanistan, Iraq, and the Persian Gulf and embedding them
with US forces there.20, 21, 22 In this capacity, transgender Americans have served openly
in forward locations such as Camp Anaconda and Balad Air Base in Iraq, New Kabul
Compound and Kandahar Air Base in Afghanistan, and aboard US Navy ships
operating in the Persian Gulf. Additionally, our allies have successfully deployed
transgender service members for more than 20 years and into every theater of the war
on terror.23 There are no special medical requirements that would prevent a transgender
service member from deploying to any location where US troops serve today.24
Q: Will providing transgender service members access to necessary medications
place an additional burden on the military health care system?
A: No. The military health care system already provides the medications commonly
used for HRT to non-transgender service members as treatment for other conditions.
HRT for transgender service members would not require new pharmaceuticals,
logistics, or significant cost.25
Q: What if a transgender service member is prevented from accessing their
medications due to logistical or tactical circumstances?
A: Such a situation is highly unlikely. Allied militaries in which transgender individuals
serve openly have found the rate of such occurrences to be extremely low. In those
circumstances where temporary loss of access to HRT medications is truly unavoidable,
the effects are neither debilitating nor life threatening.26, 27
I was on oral HRT from day one as this was prescribed by my NHS
endocrinologist, and simply stocked up from my medical center before
deployment. When I suddenly found myself extended for 2 months in the
Falklands in 2011, I ordered more through the medical center there.28
– Flight Lieutenant Ayla Holdom, RAF
Q: Will transgender service members spend a lot of time in a non-deployable
status?
A: No. Transgender service members in other countries report spending less than six
months total in a medically non-deployable status. Typically, the medical elements of
transition that might affect readiness are scheduled so as not to impact unit readiness
(i.e. while the unit is on a home cycle).
I was kept at G1 A1 Z1 [physically fit for flying and ground deployment
without any restriction] and retained my flying category throughout, with
the exceptions of having a month off flying duties when I began my HRT
(which is the standard time-period for any long-term medication) and 6
months off flying in total, following my Gender Reassignment Surgery
(GRS), during which time I was medically downgraded to P7 (nondeployable)…
Shortly after I began HRT though, before my public
transition, I was deployed for 7 weeks to the Falkland Islands in a flying
role and again for 9 weeks towards the end of my transition, a few months
before my GRS.
I am now A1 P2, which means there’s no restriction to my flying or my
deploying and is simply a marker to show I am on long-term medication.29
– Flight Lieutenant Ayla Holdom, RAF
DesertCaliMom
5-Year Member
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2017
- Messages
- 584
A partisan FAQ has an agenda and doesn't address all of the legitimate issues and will of course fail to show the downsides to transgender issues. It's what all spin doctors do. I've seen it first hand at the VA and in civilian life, psychological issues are present and debilitating in this culture.
hornetguy
15-Year Member
- Joined
- Jun 9, 2006
- Messages
- 2,353
Copy, you refuse to listen to organizations specializing in these issues and non-partisan agencies like RAND in assessing transgender service and only wish to rely on your own opinions. I understand that no facts I present will sway your thoughts on the topic.
The funny part is that Transgenders have been okay to serve for what maybe a year (okay probably longer) and from the article, they those who go through the academy arent even allowed to commission. The military doesnt seem to have a particular policy in how to deal withe issue but now that Trump has said no, it looks like he is some madman. I dont remember this craziness prior to the Obama administration allowing it. In terms of medical costs, I agree that at this point, it a drop in the military budget bucket. Could it get worse maybe and maybe way worse. I dont buy the Viagra argument some people have been talking about. Without getting blunt, the normal biological function of man's member besides urination is too have an erection. It is its two basic function. When the man doesnt have the ability to do so, then there is a medical problem. The fact that it is involved in recreational activity is not relevant and if you are talking about pro-creation, then it is more of medical issue. My thinking that they used medical expense as a reason but I highly doubt the the main reason. It is probably very disruptive on how you deal with transgenders. The argument will of course be that at one time, blacks were considered disruptive but we have grown out of that idea. Having said that, men have always been men and women have a
- Joined
- Mar 14, 2014
- Messages
- 6,846
I am issuing a warning to all.
This is not a political forum. Political discussions CAN be taken to Off Topic. You can talk politics there but must still keep it respectful.
Let's keep this discussion on the latest news and facts on this important topic, while also remaining civil with one another.
You can disagree but do so with civility.
This is not a political forum. Political discussions CAN be taken to Off Topic. You can talk politics there but must still keep it respectful.
Let's keep this discussion on the latest news and facts on this important topic, while also remaining civil with one another.
You can disagree but do so with civility.
http://dailysignal.com/2017/07/26/w...y-to-pay-for-sex-changes-would-be-disastrous/
excerpt:
Gender dysphoria, the common diagnosis for one who feels at odds with his or her birth gender, develops from prolonged anxiety and depression. People are not born that way.
The “proof” for a diagnosis of gender dysphoria is having strongly held feelings—but feelings can and often do change over time.
The military is expected to prepare its members in warfare: to kill, destroy, and break our enemies. The most important factors in preparing a strong military are not hormone therapy, surgical sex changes, or politically correct education.
We need psychologically fit, emotionally sound, highly trained troops to protect our nation from its enemies.
excerpt:
Gender dysphoria, the common diagnosis for one who feels at odds with his or her birth gender, develops from prolonged anxiety and depression. People are not born that way.
The “proof” for a diagnosis of gender dysphoria is having strongly held feelings—but feelings can and often do change over time.
The military is expected to prepare its members in warfare: to kill, destroy, and break our enemies. The most important factors in preparing a strong military are not hormone therapy, surgical sex changes, or politically correct education.
We need psychologically fit, emotionally sound, highly trained troops to protect our nation from its enemies.
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2007
- Messages
- 9,295
Does the website lay out any of the drawbacks or negative aspects?
Enough drops from different sources and you have a bucket full though.
I'm sure there are some people thinking the $8 million spent on medical costs (figure I saw on tv this morning) could be spent better say on supplies, weapons, artillery, body armor.......working to help with PTSD or other things.
I'm sorry I ever brought up the cost of Viagra, it was simply an example of what the DoD already spends on various medical costs. The same example could be used for PRK Surgery, before this surgery was available glasses were the norm. The budget argument was used in the discussions of women in the military, this always seemed silly since the military was already paying for women's health for military dependents. My comments were aimed more to the reasons the President made his quick twitter announcement which seems to have more to do with politics then money.
I do feel that this issue is a complicated one and there are good points on both sides, I believe that is why it was still under study (at least until yesterday). If it were up to me to make a decision one way or the other today, I don't think I could, but I do believe the issue should have been allowed to continue in it's study. I did a little unofficial research (Google) and could not find many if any issues surrounding those that are transgender and are currently serving, granted they hold it close to their chest. All of which should be part of the discussion, an outright ban before the discussion has completed seems short sighted.
I do feel that this issue is a complicated one and there are good points on both sides, I believe that is why it was still under study (at least until yesterday). If it were up to me to make a decision one way or the other today, I don't think I could, but I do believe the issue should have been allowed to continue in it's study. I did a little unofficial research (Google) and could not find many if any issues surrounding those that are transgender and are currently serving, granted they hold it close to their chest. All of which should be part of the discussion, an outright ban before the discussion has completed seems short sighted.
We forgive you on the Viagra. I get your point however. As for the study, I agree and disagree. My guess is that if you asked the generals during the Obama admin if they wanted transgenders they would have said no. The admin said it transgenders were okay and the studies are being done in order to figure out how to deal with them and what problems could creep up. That is different from should they serve or not. To be honest, I have no idea how I feel about this decision. Even if i agreed with it, I am not sure if I could make it because I know lots of people will get hurt by it. I mean those currently in the military and those who wish to serve. The rest of the population who is complaining but wouldnt serve in million years dont make any difference to me.
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2012
- Messages
- 2,253
We may be getting a little lost in the weeds; IMO with Washington, one must first follow the $; then the politics. In the article below, an anonymous source (always by an anonymous source
) says that the transgender issue was holding up the spending bill that includes $1.6 billion for the wall POTUS wants built. To remove that stumbling block & keep the bill on track, the transgender tweet/decision (also possibly, IMO to placate the Conservatives POTUS is alienating with his Sessions remarks) was made the source says. Politically, that seems to make sense; not that I agree with it, but that's politics.
Disclaimer: My opinions vary from Conservative (pro 2nd Amendment) to Moderate (working people need affordable health care) to the L word (programs rather than prison for non-violent offenders) depending on the issue. The article also quotes that a transgender person is a SEAL team member. My unsolicited opinion; if it's OK with them, it's OK with me.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/26/us/politics/trump-transgender-military.html?ref=todayspaper
) says that the transgender issue was holding up the spending bill that includes $1.6 billion for the wall POTUS wants built. To remove that stumbling block & keep the bill on track, the transgender tweet/decision (also possibly, IMO to placate the Conservatives POTUS is alienating with his Sessions remarks) was made the source says. Politically, that seems to make sense; not that I agree with it, but that's politics.Disclaimer: My opinions vary from Conservative (pro 2nd Amendment) to Moderate (working people need affordable health care) to the L word (programs rather than prison for non-violent offenders) depending on the issue. The article also quotes that a transgender person is a SEAL team member. My unsolicited opinion; if it's OK with them, it's OK with me.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/26/us/politics/trump-transgender-military.html?ref=todayspaper
Last edited:
If so, we should listen to NRA concerning gun control, Planned Parenthood about reproductive health (I.e. Abortion), or believe anything posted on the internet as the truth.
I am reasonably sure the article is referring to Kristin Beck. If so she WAS a SEAL team member and she transitioned after she retired. A big difference between a transition person currently serving with a SEAL team vs someone that transitioned after leaving the SEAL team. It matters as we willl never know how she would have performed if she transitioned while being a member of a SEAL team.
Lost in all this conversation and putting politics aside, there is a very human element to this that sometimes gets lost in all the rhetoric. Speaking mainly about the number of transgender service members that are currently serving, those that came out , what happens to them. This is something that the military and the Generals that the President said he consulted (Love to know who those generals were, guess the Admirals weren't invited) don't seem to know what to do. As of now the military isn't doing anything until it gets directives from the WH. I have a feeling that the WH doesn't have a clue of what directives to give since the Tweets seem to have come with little notice, I have a feeling there is a lot of scrambling in a WH that is already scrambling with countless other issues. I can just hear his staff "Great, now we have to deal with this too"
So now it comes down to what to do with those that are serving, discharge?, will it be Honorable or Dishonorable. Will they receive a code that states they were discharged for being Transgender, similar to the discharge of Gays and Lesbians where there codes were listed as Homosexual on a Honorable discharge. Will they remove service members from deployments or off ships. How much time and money will be allotted to investigations to determine if someone is transgender. What about those that only live as transgender in their private time, will they be at the mercy of those that may expose them. All of this tends to get lost in the narrative.
Even while I try and work out this whole situation in my own head, I can't help but think about those that are now doing the same thing as all our kids , honorably serving their country.
So now it comes down to what to do with those that are serving, discharge?, will it be Honorable or Dishonorable. Will they receive a code that states they were discharged for being Transgender, similar to the discharge of Gays and Lesbians where there codes were listed as Homosexual on a Honorable discharge. Will they remove service members from deployments or off ships. How much time and money will be allotted to investigations to determine if someone is transgender. What about those that only live as transgender in their private time, will they be at the mercy of those that may expose them. All of this tends to get lost in the narrative.
Even while I try and work out this whole situation in my own head, I can't help but think about those that are now doing the same thing as all our kids , honorably serving their country.
This I'll agree with, it's not a fair representation of the issue since she did not transition until after leaving the service, if they want accurate comparison they need to highlight those that are currently serving as openly transgender.
Well, like to remind you that we can't have happy ending all the time. Like it or not, life is not fair.
+1. Especially the last s.entence...and those who tweet their complaints.
NTWLF ONE
5-Year Member
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2016
- Messages
- 226
Yeah, I think about all the parts we pulled off of "hangar queens", static displays and from the boneyard at Davis Monthan...sure would have been nice to use that money for authentic,OEM parts for our aircraft...
NTWLF ONE
5-Year Member
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2016
- Messages
- 226
Not to pile on about the Viagra point...
But eye glasses get lost, broken, fog up, etc....there are some REAL military readiness benefits from PRK surgery. Especially for those in the field for long periods of time....