3Q specifications

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keepmovingforward

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Can anyone tell me the specifics of what the academy defines as 3Q? Is it nebulous or are there published statistics?
 
keepmovingforward said:
Are there specifics for each of these areas? What determines "qualified" in academics and physical? (I'm assuming having a clear medical report is sufficient for the medical portion).
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Passing the CFA will qualify you for the physical category, and your GPA and ACT/SAT scores along with some extracurriculars will determine the academic category.
 
@keepmovingforward - no. These are not published stats and no one here can give you the benchmark by which 3Q is determined for any school. You will notice in published literature, Service Academies tend to publish AVERAGE scores and conveniently leave out MINIMUM requirements. There is a minimum score whereby Admissions would consider a candidate unlikely to be successful at the school. While it would be immensely helpful to know these values, it is not as binary as you would like to think.

Even if you look at GPA - each school is different. Each teacher within a school could have a different grading style. It makes evaluating GPA somewhat subjective and they have to consider other outside factors as they seek to use this as a benchmark for admissions.
 
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shiner said:
@keepmovingforward - no. These are not published stats and no one here can give you the benchmark by which 3Q is determined for any school. You will notice in published literature, Service Academies tend to publish AVERAGE scores and conveniently leave out MINIMUM requirements. There is a minimum score whereby Admissions would consider a candidate unlikely to be successful at the school. While it would be immensely helpful to know these values, it is not as binary as you would like to think.

Even if you look at GPA - each school is different. Each teacher within a school could have a different grading style. It makes evaluating GPA somewhat subjective and they have to consider other outside factors as they seek to use this as a benchmark for admissions.
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Thank you for your insight. That's true that it's difficult to standardize GPAs across all schools but with the heavy attention the academies give to academics (60%), it would be helpful to know what those minimum scores might be. My DS received a TWE with a GPA of 3.75; SAT of 1270 and ACT of 28. He had extensive leadership experience and four years of NJROTC (now CO of battalion), including four years with their Raider (pt) team. (All of the details, I posted previously.) He performed well on his CFA (don't know his stats) and passed his medical with no issues. We thought he might be offered prep school so were surprised (and extremely disappointed) that he received denial.

I'm just curious how far he missed the mark academically (what I'm guessing his shortcoming might have been).
 
I guess a lot depends on the competition within your district. Your DS stats are good, commendable leadership experience. A big unknown is where does he stands in comparison to his competition.
 
keepmovingforward said:
Thank you for your insight. That's true that it's difficult to standardize GPAs across all schools but with the heavy attention the academies give to academics (60%), it would be helpful to know what those minimum scores might be. My DS received a TWE with a GPA of 3.75; SAT of 1270 and ACT of 28. He had extensive leadership experience and four years of NJROTC (now CO of battalion), including four years with their Raider (pt) team. (All of the details, I posted previously.) He performed well on his CFA (don't know his stats) and passed his medical with no issues. We thought he might be offered prep school so were surprised (and extremely disappointed) that he received denial.

I'm just curious how far he missed the mark academically (what I'm guessing his shortcoming might have been).
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The 60% Academic portion is somewhat of a moving target, especially with the pandemic affecting testing.

Ordinarily an ACT composite of about 30 is competitive. Could be a bit lower for some districts or much higher for others. A 28 ACT composite or a 3.75 GPA (in typical cases) would not be a reason for academic disqualification, but low scores/grades/evaluations in critical subjects could be. The GPA is particularly difficult to assess due to grading differences.

If your son was 3Q, he would not be eligible for USMAPS. If not 3Q, getting USMAPS is very unlikely for those not recruited athletes or soldiers.

For an accurate assessment, your son should contact his RC and ask how he can strengthen his application when he reapplies next year ;)
 
There was one section on the ACT that was much more difficult than the others for my DS. When we were at West Point visiting an Admissions representative, I believe he said that a 25 (in that particular section?) was their minimum. I don't know if each section is capped differently or if there is an across the board number cut off, but he left that meeting thinking he needed to get that one section up to avoid being disqualified.
 
jl123 said:
The 60% Academic portion is somewhat of a moving target, especially with the pandemic affecting testing.

Ordinarily an ACT composite of about 30 is competitive. Could be a bit lower for some districts or much higher for others. A 28 ACT composite or a 3.75 GPA (in typical cases) would not be a reason for academic disqualification, but low scores/grades/evaluations in critical subjects could be. The GPA is particularly difficult to assess due to grading differences.

If your son was 3Q, he would not be eligible for USMAPS. If not 3Q, getting USMAPS is very unlikely for those not recruited athletes or soldiers.

For an accurate assessment, your son should contact his RC and ask how he can strengthen his application when he reapplies next year ;)
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Prep school is generally only offered to recruited athletes or soldiers?
 
keepmovingforward said:
Can anyone tell me the specifics of what the academy defines as 3Q? Is it nebulous or are there published statistics?
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All values of the 3Q are dependent on the competition of the class. It will be harder to qualify physically if everyone in the applying class did insane on the CFA. It would be harder to qualify academically if everyone got 1500's on the SAT. The qualification comes from the idea that you have the ability to compete for admission to USMA across the board of the rest of the applicants; they narrow it down after 3Q'ing people in order of merit, MOC slates, and for other reasons.
 
keepmovingforward said:
Thank you for your insight. That's true that it's difficult to standardize GPAs across all schools but with the heavy attention the academies give to academics (60%), it would be helpful to know what those minimum scores might be. My DS received a TWE with a GPA of 3.75; SAT of 1270 and ACT of 28. He had extensive leadership experience and four years of NJROTC (now CO of battalion), including four years with their Raider (pt) team. (All of the details, I posted previously.) He performed well on his CFA (don't know his stats) and passed his medical with no issues. We thought he might be offered prep school so were surprised (and extremely disappointed) that he received denial.

I'm just curious how far he missed the mark academically (what I'm guessing his shortcoming might have been).
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My DS had similar stats to your son as far as GPA and Battalion Commander of JROTC and Raiders with a fair amount of volunteer work. Only difference is he scored in the 99th percentile on his SAT.
 
keepmovingforward said:
That's true that it's difficult to standardize GPAs across all schools but with the heavy attention the academies give to academics (60%), it would be helpful to know what those minimum scores might be.
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There really aren’t minimum GPAs, at least as far as we laypeople on the outside are concerned. The SAs sift through each candidate’s transcript, examining it in the context of the school profile. So they know what classes are offered, how rigorous the school is, and what percentage of students go on to college. That provides a richer picture of the candidate’s academic readiness — much more so than a nebulous, nonstandard GPA.
 
kinnem said:
Incorrect. It's also offered to applicant's who have outstanding leadership but are academically unqualified. Plenty of folks are academically qualified who do not receive an appointment.
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Yes, but very difficult for non-recruited athlete/soldier due to limited spaces.

Most common path for those not appointed, and still wanting to pursue USMA, is to reapply from college.
 
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