50% BAH cuts for dual military, 25% to military roommates

You are correct, life is about making choices. And they made that decision based on the rules in place at that time, not the new rules they are proposing. If this was the public sector that is fine because they could just tell them to go pound sand and move on to an honorable employer. But that is not the case for our service members. The contract changes but they have no option but to eat it until their contract is up.

My issue is with them taking away from the lower enlisted who make the least. I also think if they do decide to put this in place that those already in should be grandfathered until their current contract is up. Then if they choose to re-enlist they did it knowing what they were signing up for. To have them sign a contract and then change it should negate that contract...

I also agree that an E4 makes more than minimum wage. My point is they should. First and foremost they have gone through training and have been doing their job for a few years. I guess we differ in the fact that I believe they are worth it and you apparently feel differently.

MemberLG said:
What is a service member entitled to? Is a service member entitled to a "nice place" to live? Is a service member entitled to save money for retirement?
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I guess this is where I got the idea you didn't feel they need to make enough to save for retirement...

I won't change your mind and you won't change mine so I'll just agree to disagree with you.
 
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Rocko said:
I guess we differ in the fact that I believe they are worth it and you apparently feel differently.
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My issue is not how much service is worth, rather what happens when we put a price on service. As it is we have a disassociation between the general public and the idea of service. If the public can feel good about themselves by thinking that "volunteers" can fight wars for them because they are compensating soldiers enough, we don't have an Army, we have a mercenary force. How can you put a price on lost lives, life time of disability (legitimate ones), failed marriages/relationship, and etc? Because I got separation pay/combat pay while at Iraq, didn't make it any easier that I was away from my family and my wife was with our second child.
 
I'm a little bit surprised that the IRS or some state hasn't weighed in on this ruling that any amount over the actual cost of housing is counted as taxable income. Just think of the state legislators drooling over their martinis.
 
osdad said:
I'm a little bit surprised that the IRS or some state hasn't weighed in on this ruling that any amount over the actual cost of housing is counted as taxable income. Just think of the state legislators drooling over their martinis.
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I wonder how they would even know. They don't have a copy of the leases and it's not entirely transparent, often, what a transaction is (such as paying rent).
 
kp2001 said:
scoutpilot said:
Don't like it? Quit.
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Not an option for most except at very certain points of time. But let me know if it becomes possible.
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Please don't take this the wrong way and I do not mean this as a personnel attack either, but you really are not the best person to be complaining about this. It's your right and I understand you are upset, however it's hard to generate a lot of sympathy for your situation. You are a dual military family, doctor with special incentive pay and knowing that your wife is a also a military doctor probably earns a combined income of $250,000 a year. That puts you in the top 4% of earners in the nation. I'm not begrudging you for what you earn and granted you would earn more as a civilian, but you really are not the best person to be making this fight. If you were a dual military married E5 with 3 kids that would be a different story.
 
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Folks, everyone on this site has a right to air his/her views provided it is done in a civil manner.

Let's stick to a discussion of this issue -- which has clearly sparked spirited debate -- and not on whether another poster is the right or wrong person to voice an opinion.

Your friendly Mod.
 
LineInTheSand said:
I wonder how they would even know. They don't have a copy of the leases and it's not entirely transparent, often, what a transaction is (such as paying rent).
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The same way they know your moving expenses are because you actually moved ==> you tell them. With a stroke of a pen the BAH could be added to your LES (if it's not already). Then you'd have to prove how it was spent.

I'm not saying it would be right just that I'm surprised it hasn't been brought up in the past.
 
tankercaptain said:
Please don't take this the wrong way and I do not mean this as a personnel attack either, but you really are not the best person to be complaining about this. It's your right and I understand you are upset, however it's hard to generate a lot of sympathy for your situation. You are a dual military family, doctor with special incentive pay and knowing that your wife is a also a military doctor probably earns a combined income of $250,000 a year. That puts you in the top 4% of earners in the nation. I'm not begrudging you for what you earn and granted you would earn more as a civilian, but you really are not the best person to be making this fight. If you were a dual military married E5 with 3 kids that would be a different story.
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I see this as a valid argument: but are we now suggesting we make a separate pay scale based on what one's spouse does?

You may see it as I make X dollars, but one also must take into account the retention of certain service members and the role pay has in that. This is why you see "bonuses" for certain fields: aviators, linguists, special operators, lawyers, physicians, and undermanned rates. They incentivize you to stay in.

Would retention take a hit of all the sudden you dropped my pay by $24,000 a year and put me at an even greater gap between me and my civilian counterparts? Well I can tell you the Navy would possibly lose one pediatric ophthalmologist which would put them at a grand total of 0. It would be very difficult to go hire one off the street, even in a GS/contractor position, so yes retention may be an issue.

I get it, some think a 20% pay cut is okay for me because I went to 8 years of training post college and make a decent living. That's a valid argument, I don't agree with it.

I expect everyone to live within their means. I don't expect a family to be able to sustain a 20% pay cut due to their marital status. Doesn't matter if it's an E4 or an O10.

Again, want to change it for people who join now or beyond, or want to at least make it equivalent to roommates? At least a bit more palatable.
 
Actually, most officers are free to quit for the majority of their careers.

BAH is an allowance. Not pay. Not an entitlement. It's intent is to ensure you have housing.

Try viewing it from the opposite side of the coin...why should you get be able to afford twice the home just for marrying a fellow servicemember?

What if I told you...that the military actually doesn't like dual military couples?
 
kp2001 said:
tankercaptain said:
Please don't take this the wrong way and I do not mean this as a personnel attack either, but you really are not the best person to be complaining about this. It's your right and I understand you are upset, however it's hard to generate a lot of sympathy for your situation. You are a dual military family, doctor with special incentive pay and knowing that your wife is a also a military doctor probably earns a combined income of $250,000 a year. That puts you in the top 4% of earners in the nation. I'm not begrudging you for what you earn and granted you would earn more as a civilian, but you really are not the best person to be making this fight. If you were a dual military married E5 with 3 kids that would be a different story.
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I see this as a valid argument: but are we now suggesting we make a separate pay scale based on what one's spouse does?

You may see it as I make X dollars, but one also must take into account the retention of certain service members and the role pay has in that. This is why you see "bonuses" for certain fields: aviators, linguists, special operators, lawyers, physicians, and undermanned rates. They incentivize you to stay in.

Would retention take a hit of all the sudden you dropped my pay by $24,000 a year and put me at an even greater gap between me and my civilian counterparts? Well I can tell you the Navy would possibly lose one pediatric ophthalmologist which would put them at a grand total of 0. It would be very difficult to go hire one off the street, even in a GS/contractor position, so yes retention may be an issue.

I get it, some think a 20% pay cut is okay for me because I went to 8 years of training post college and make a decent living. That's a valid argument, I don't agree with it.

I expect everyone to live within their means. I don't expect a family to be able to sustain a 20% pay cut due to their marital status. Doesn't matter if it's an E4 or an O10.

Again, want to change it for people who join now or beyond, or want to at least make it equivalent to roommates? At least a bit more palatable.
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We can argue about is it or isn't it a pay cut and how we call military pay, but I have a question for you. Since BAH is supposed to be used for housing, what would you do if tomorrow you walked into work and the Navy said congratulations on base housing just opened up and you have 30 days to move?
 
tankercaptain said:
We can argue about is it or isn't it a pay cut and how we call military pay, but I have a question for you. Since BAH is supposed to be used for housing, what would you do if tomorrow you walked into work and the Navy said congratulations on base housing just opened up and you have 30 days to move?
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Would probably be annoyed at having to pack and move, but would enjoy not having to pay for utilities.

I don't think I'd be too excited overall, but some housing communities are actually quite nice: Coronado and oak harbor being two examples that I wouldn't hesitate to move into.
 
kp2001 said:
tankercaptain said:
We can argue about is it or isn't it a pay cut and how we call military pay, but I have a question for you. Since BAH is supposed to be used for housing, what would you do if tomorrow you walked into work and the Navy said congratulations on base housing just opened up and you have 30 days to move?
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Would probably be annoyed at having to pack and move, but would enjoy not having to pay for utilities.

I don't think I'd be too excited overall, but some housing communities are actually quite nice: Coronado and oak harbor being two examples that I wouldn't hesitate to move into.
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How would you feel about having all of your BAH going to on base housing, virtually not receiving BAH?
 
Question, if dual military spouses live on base, do both not receive BAH?
 
Unless things have changed in 20 yrs (and they well might have), here's who REALLY gets the shaft in base housing -- single military members. If you're single, you live in the BOQ/BEQ -- you get a room and maybe (or maybe not) your own bathroom. If you're married, you get a whole house with (depending on where you live) kitchen, living room, dining room, bedroom, bathroom -- maybe a carport or even a garage. I would argue that two married people take up about the same room as a single person.

If I were single and could have a house, I would love to give up my BAH and live in base housing. Easier, especially if you deploy, probably safer, really close to work, etc. But if I lived in my own apt/house and was told to move to base housing -- I would be furious. Not b/c of the money but b/c I would lose my space and privacy.

Back to the military couple issue, the gov't does certain things to incentivize behavior that it deems beneficial -- hence the mortgage deduction on taxes to encourage home ownership. IMHO, the military has for years provided financial benefits to military to marry. Historically, military guys married civilian women. Now, all that is changing and the military seems to be wrestling with the new reality and how to make things "fair." It's the definition of that word that is creating the challenge.
 
NavyHoops said:
Question, if dual military spouses live on base, do both not receive BAH?
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The higher of the two BAH is taken as the "rent" up to market rate. The other BAH is still given. (The higher is not necessarily the higher rank as dependents can be added to one and not the other.)

If two or more unmarried members share an on-base house, they too get all of their BAHs.

So the above seems to be contrary to the "it's for adequate housing" reading of the benefit.
 
osdad said:
NavyHoops said:
Question, if dual military spouses live on base, do both not receive BAH?
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The higher of the two BAH is taken as the "rent" up to market rate. The other BAH is still given. (The higher is not necessarily the higher rank as dependents can be added to one and not the other.)

If two or more unmarried members share an on-base house, they too get all of their BAHs.

So the above seems to be contrary to the "it's for adequate housing" reading of the benefit.
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Interesting.

When my son PCS's to Ft. Rucker he opted for on base housing, he did not stay in BOQ, he was given a 2 bedroom house. His entire BAH went for the housing cost which included utilities.

Now, if he would have had a roommate, the second BAH was not given to the roommate. They had a calculation set up for roommates, each of them would receive back a portion of their BAH but it was Not equal to one complete BAH, it was only a small percentage. So no, one roommate did not receive a complete BAH when they roomed together in on base housing. According to their pay stubs it may have shown they were both receiving BAH, but the on base housing took a good chunk from each of their BAH so in essence, two roommates pay more for the same house then a single member would pay. Sounds like it's for "Adequate Housing" to me.
 
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