AFA SWIM TEAM SENT HOME

[Maplerock]

[QUOTE="knownothing, post: 593491,

Agreed. Yet, it's hard to understand how an organization that spends so much time (based on their literature and social media) talking about character, leadership, ethics and respect for human dignity could still be wrestling with scandals[/QUOTE]

Do the math. 11 out of 4000... that's about a quarter of one percent. Pretty darn good if you ask me. Wonder what the numbers are at LSU, Ohio State, Florida State, etc.

Anytime you have thousands of people together there will be some with less than honorable intentions. I am proud of our kids at the academies and I'd put their character to the test with any other institution.

 

[Alaskan]

Not sure I agree Alaskan. You may not intend it, but it sounds like a “holier than thou” position statement.

Not condoning whatever happened. I do think it’s naive to think that “this sort of thing” wouldn’t happen at USAFA. It’s hard to not expect incidents to pop up from time to time. Hopefully they can use these young men’s mistakes as examples for what happens when you break the rules. You’re always going to have some cadets who take lightly their positions and have little regard for the Honor Code. It seems that there is more problems among the recruited athletes.

 

[knownothing]

[QUOTE="knownothing, post: 593491,

Agreed. Yet, it's hard to understand how an organization that spends so much time (based on their literature and social media) talking about character, leadership, ethics and respect for human dignity could still be wrestling with scandals

Do the math. 11 out of 4000... that's about a quarter of one percent. Pretty darn good if you ask me. Wonder what the numbers are at LSU, Ohio State, Florida State, etc.

Anytime you have thousands of people together there will be some with less than honorable intentions. I am proud of our kids at the academies and I'd put their character to the test with any other institution.[/QUOTE]

Not sure why anyone would compare the student body of a character and leadership based military academy to that of other civilian colleges (where formal character development is mostly non-existent). The correct comparison should only be USAFA's student body to its own standard, in which case the math to be done should not be '11 out of 4000' but 'zero out of 4000.'

My comments were not about this specific incident which we have very little information about as of now. I'm assuming that you are not suggesting that this is a completely isolated and singular incident in the (recent) history of USAFA, and so your ratio is very inaccurate.

 

[Alaskan]

[QUOTE="knownothing, post: 593491,

Agreed. Yet, it's hard to understand how an organization that spends so much time (based on their literature and social media) talking about character, leadership, ethics and respect for human dignity could still be wrestling with scandals

Do the math. 11 out of 4000... that's about a quarter of one percent. Pretty darn good if you ask me. Wonder what the numbers are at LSU, Ohio State, Florida State, etc.

Anytime you have thousands of people together there will be some with less than honorable intentions. I am proud of our kids at the academies and I'd put their character to the test with any other institution.

Not sure why anyone would compare the student body of a character and leadership based military academy to that of other civilian colleges (where formal character development is mostly non-existent). The correct comparison should only be USAFA's student body to its own standard, in which case the math to be done should not be '11 out of 4000' but 'zero out of 4000.'

My comments were not about this specific incident which we have very little information about as of now. I'm assuming that you are not suggesting that this is a completely isolated and singular incident in the (recent) history of USAFA, and so your ratio is very inaccurate.[/QUOTE]
USAFA has high standards. There will always be those who break the rules. You will find law breakers in all walks of life. The hope is that the majority become leaders who embrace the honor code in their daily life. I’m assuming you know this, and aren’t seriously thinking that USAFA is immune from the human condition.

 

[Maplerock]

[QUOTE="Alaskan, post: 593513, member: 31628" I’m assuming you know this, and aren’t seriously thinking that USAFA is immune from the human condition.[/QUOTE]


Well, you know what happens when you assume.

 

[knownothing]

"Hazing serves a purpose. Of course it all needs to be legal and done safely. It’s a rite of passage."[/QUOTE]

Alaskan, if your comments here are indicative of current USAFA cadet attitudes, then the Academy has an overall culture problem.

 

[Alaskan]

"Hazing serves a purpose. Of course it all needs to be legal and done safely. It’s a rite of passage."

Alaskan, if your comments here are indicative of current USAFA cadet attitudes, then the Academy has an overall culture problem.[/QUOTE]
I’m a relic of the past. Define an “overall culture problem” if you’d be so kind.

 

[Walman888]

Hazing? Really?? This is still happening??? I hope that is not the case again here. Pardon me for saying so, but IMHO the USAFA administrators need to quit the #NCLS2018 grandstanding and fix this $#!+ which goes on under their collective noses once and for all.

I don't think it so much that it is still happening, in so much as the new definition of hazing. Many would be amazed at what is considered hazing these days. It seems our society has redefined hazing, bullying, etc. to include some very innocuous actions. I'm not saying the swimmers actions were this trivial, but, I think your reaction is a bit melodramatic.

Hazing serves a purpose. Of course it all needs to be legal and done safely. It’s a rite of passage.

Hazing? Really?? This is still happening??? I hope that is not the case again here. Pardon me for saying so, but IMHO the USAFA administrators need to quit the #NCLS2018 grandstanding and fix this $#!+ which goes on under their collective noses once and for all.

I don't think it so much that it is still happening, in so much as the new definition of hazing. Many would be amazed at what is considered hazing these days. It seems our society has redefined hazing, bullying, etc. to include some very innocuous actions. I'm not saying the swimmers actions were this trivial, but, I think your reaction is a bit melodramatic.

Hazing serves a purpose. Of course it all needs to be legal and done safely. It’s a rite of passage.

No, it does not. Legal and safely? Accomplishment is a rite of passage.

 

[1mom]

A rite of passage are the the different events/stages (BCT, A-Day, Recognition) on the calendar set for the Basics, Doolies, C4Cs by USAFA for the freshmen to complete, or reach.