afrotc freeze?

Can and will the AF actually deliver scholarships this semester to these students and will they be back next year if the AF doesn't? I think we'll find out within the next month or so....
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I agree!

However, if we all took a step back, removed emotions and took a good look at the writing on the wall. I think we all can come to the same conclusion.

Time warp back 12-18 months ago, for the class of 14, and the AFROTC boards were stunned to see how many qualified candidates that got the thanks, but no thanks. There were candidates that got nothing via AFROTC, but got AFA apptmts. Some of those that got that letter had out the door stats and it was mind boggling to read they were rejected.

That should have been seen as a pre-cursor. Add in the fact that OTC was canceled, on top of force re-shaping and the writing was on the wall where they stood for manpower....that was before the whispers in the wind that the AFA would be appointing less candidates this yr; AFA candidates usually use AFROTC as Plan B, and are highly competitive.

That's the thing, there are always signs, it just happens to be do you want to see them, or ignore them and hope it will go away?

I think for 16 the tide will turn, but for those in college right now it is going to be competitive...especially after today when they said the economic outlook for unemployment is going to be bad for 5 yrs.

It is important to understand how they come to these ROTC numbers. In essence it is long term strategic planning regarding man power.

The military tries to keep a ratio of Flag (Gen) to Field (O4/5/6) to Company (O1/2/3) to enlisted. If the O2/3's aren't diving than they don't need to replace as quickly. Right now because of the economy they aren't diving, and that creates a cog in the system. No need to put more on the payroll when they have enough already...also another reason why there may be a RIF if enough AD members don't dive.

I know I sound like a broken record on that fact, but until it is understood and accepted that is the system, people will keep asking why?
 
Pima said:
That's the thing, there are always signs, it just happens to be do you want to see them, or ignore them and hope it will go away?
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While you and I may see the signs, I'm not sure 18 year old freshman college students are as aware before they start the process of applying for scholarships through the ICSP. My only issue with the AF eliminating Express Scholarships (other than compassion for those who applied) is that the AFROTC detachments are still recruiting college students majoring in Comp. and Elect. Eng and Nursing and certain foreign languages with the "promise" of an Express Scholarship. Are the cadre actually promising scholarships? Of course not. But what they are doing is "suggesting" that for students majoring in these fields and that can meet the rest of the eligibility requirements, that it is extremely likely they will receive a scholarship. Also let's not forget the Express Scholarship web page is still up on the AFROTC site. If you can't fund these (and I understand why the AF can't) then let's quit holding out this carrot to college students.

I also feel for the cadre. They have recruiting goals and not many scholarships to meet those goals. If for example you are PMS of a large state school and the AF tells you they expect you to have 3 nursing students in your freshman and sophomore AFROTC classes...yet only 1 arrives at the detachment with a HSSP...what do you say to the freshmen when you go into the nursing school to recruit? Certainly patriotism and giving back to your country is stressed but so are the possible financial awards. I am concerned about what will happen to the cadre's credibility, and their ability to recruit students with certain majors if they can't deliver.

Again...the above is just a "what if" discussion on my part. I anticipate (and hope) that the AF will come through with some Express Scholarships soon. At least for the nursing students my daughter helped recruit....:rolleyes:

Good luck to those still waiting! :thumb:
 
I get what you are saying, but the thing is the military is like any Fortune 500 company. Perks are tied to their needs for recruitment/retaining and to their operational budget.

Besides that, information gets water downed and it takes time. The CoC for any det maybe an O6, but the time it comes down the ranks from the Pentagon to AF to AFROTC to an AFROTC det. needs to be placed into that equation.

Next, the DOD is slashing and cutting their budget. We both have cadets in the system that are being impacted. Yet, if it means that they offer less scholarships while maintaining bennies for the AD members, than so be it.

Yes, it is is horrible, but if they have to cut money and divert it, wouldn't you agree that those serving currently should be the first to get it?

Even if we dialed it down a notch and only talk about ROTC, the fact is they are not sending every C200 to SFT due to money. They are cutting loose AF cadets months before commissioning.

I get your point, I understand it, but for me the allegiance lies with those in, not those who have yet to do 1 minute.

Again, unfortunately the AF does not have the funds to do both. Time warp yourself, after 4 yrs in the AFROTC world would you want them to cut her loose, but still give Express scholarships to another cadet?

Budgets are budgets. They don't have a "floater" for their checking account to cover their checks when they are out of funds.
 
Pima said:
Budgets are budgets. They don't have a "floater" for their checking account to cover their checks when they are out of funds.
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I thought the government just printed more money when they needed it. You might want to advise Congress that isn't the way the system is supposed to work. :wink:
 
It is not just AFROTC. I just learned from my DD's #1 choice of NROTC that this very large and popular Battalion is way down in Budget this year, and this budget cut is affecting both 4 Year and College Program scholarship offers. I don't know how much "way down" is, but from tone of voice I'd say 20%-30%.

Man, I'd hate to be a student or parent of a student at a private college, counting on an NROTC College Program Scholarship, based on the good probabilities of getting one from a year ago, sucking it up and borrowing heavily for one non-scholarship year, and now finding out there simply aren't enough scholarships to award... and then having to transfer to a cheaper college.
 
I just learned from my DD's #1 choice of NROTC that this very large and popular Battalion is way down in Budget this year, and this budget cut is affecting both 4 Year and College Program scholarship offers. I don't know how much "way down" is, but from tone of voice I'd say 20%-30%.
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This is what I meant by starting to interpret. Don't jump or leap and believe the sky is falling, just keep it in the back of your mind.

One day at a time.
 
dunninla said:
Man, I'd hate to be a student or parent of a student at a private college, counting on an NROTC College Program Scholarship..
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Obviously this approach is not too smart. Even those who do receive 4 year scholarships while seniors in HS (HSSP) would be well advised to select a college that will be affordable without a ROTC scholarship "just in case" they lose their ROTC scholarship for any number of reasons.
 
Very true what AG stated, unless you have a magic 8 ball, always have a plan B in case you ROTC disappears. IN other words, if you get a full ride, and the folks have 50K in a mutual, don't redeem it and buy a car for 40K thinking you are clear to go for the next 4 yrs. Hold onto it JIC that 8 ball was wrong:redface:
 
I'm sorry for beating a dead horse, but: My son received a type 2, 4 year AFROTC scholarship. IF he will have a high gpa and will be active in his det and does everything right.....do you think he will be able to keep his scholarship for all 4 years? I can understand it being taken away if his grades are poor etc and I understand the budget cuts the government is facing and I understand no one can predict the future, but what do you think his chances are?
 
KO5791 said:
IF he will have a high gpa and will be active in his det and does everything right.....do you think he will be able to keep his scholarship for all 4 years?
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Yes - I think if his grades are decent 3.0+, his PFT scores are good (90%+) and he is active in the detachment that he will keep his scholarship for all 4 years. The cadets that need to be concerned IMHO are the ones that don't accomplish the above and those that are applying for scholarships through the ICSP.

Please don't let my mindless speculation on the direction of the AF and their budget issues make you unnecessarily concerned about your son's scholarship. Obviously he needs to continue to work hard but any student that receives a 4 year Type 2 AFROTC scholarship this year must be a VERY strong candidate and I'm sure will do very well in AFROTC. Congrats to you and your son! :thumb:
 
I know this is a little off topic but is the Army as over crowded office wise as the! AF is
 
Update: Above I made a comment about NROTC being "way down on scholarship budget" this application season... and guessed 20%-30%.

On another thread for Army ROTC, poster MaristCollegeROTC posted that Army Cadet Command awarded 25% fewer scholarships from their 4JAN board than originally planned.

I'm starting to see a pattern (25% down). What I don't know is whether the budget holdup in Washington that somebody referenced here (which I know nothing about) will get fixed before the late season Boards for AFROTC, AROTC (28Feb), and NROTC (2-4 more between now and 15MAR).
 
You need to understand that the scholarships coming down now belong to FY 11, which began back in Oct.

Fiscal budgets for the DOD run Oct 1 to Sept 30th. Washington has no impact on this situation.

My bet is what you are seeing is the branches knew already that they would have less money to spread around, and due to the economy they have more applicants, thus it is becoming harder to create the line without seeing the largest pool of candidates.

The military has a an inverse relationship to the economy when it comes to recruiting. When the economy is down, applications are up. When the economy is up, applications are down.

The pot of money has been assigned and allocated, the factor you are seeing about delays comes down to competition.

The other factor is in regards to the SAs, at least for the AF. 99.99% of all AFA candidates will apply for ROTC as plan B. Right now, due to their downsizing rumors have been swirling that the incoming class will be below 1300, and thus, if the AFA has enlightened AFROTC of this, which I am sure they have, the competition will be even stiffer. Reason why goes back to the pot of gold. They expect X number to take AFA over AFROTC, but if the AFA offers less apptmts, and 99% use plan B, they now have to re-work their scholarships. Again, why they may now decide to take their time for decisions, wanting to see a larger pool.
 
wow! Just got the word today that there won't be any in-college scholarship until January 2012. Before it was Sept. 2011.

Now the walk-on cadets really have no hope because they have to contract in Sept and once contracted, there will be no incentive for the AF to give you a scholarship.
 
WJUW said:
Just got the word today that there won't be any in-college scholarship until January 2012. Before it was Sept. 2011.
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Which specific group of In-College scholarships are affected? For instance isn't the AF still offering In-College Express Scholarships to students in certain majors?
 
aglages said:
Which specific group of In-College scholarships are affected? For instance isn't the AF still offering In-College Express Scholarships to students in certain majors?
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Every single one of the In-College scholarship is frozon.

I was pratically applying for one of the Express Scholarship back in Sept 2010 but waiting for my PFA result to come out. I passed the PFA in December and went to see the cadre to get the process rolling since Express Scholarship is non-competitive. And literally just a couple of days before I went in, they got the word from the HQ saying ANY In-College Scholarship will be unavailable until the next school year (Sept. 2011).

Now this morning we as the 200s class were gathered and told it won't be available until January of 2012 which means we 200s will never be considered for a scholarship before or after we contract. That means NEVER.

What I was thinking was, well, okay, at least I will be qualifed for the GI BILL since I won't be taking any scholarship, right?

Nah, the cadre were not sure because they speculated the stipend a cadet receives might count toward "scholarship money" thus it'll prevent you from being eligible for the GI BILL. I know there are two kinds of GI Bill, I meant only one of them.
 
It makes sense for financial reasons. I mean our year group (FY 13) has over 5,000 people competing for 2,000 Enrollment Allocations (EAs). The AF has got enough people anyway, it needs no incentive to award the students to stay in ROTC.
 
Dern, I qualify to get on Express-Scholarship because I am a foreign language major. I wasn't going to contract though until I found out if I was actually getting an EA or not. The AFROTC deal looks pretty bad right now if they are taking that away. I feel like I should switch over to Army even more now. I am mainly worried about actually being able to stay in the Air Force as a career. (I wanted to do 20 years). With the Air Force letting people go so much lately, the Army feels like a safer option IMO.
 
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