AFROTC Scholarship chances?
- Thread starter kingneptune117
- Start date
kingneptune117
5-Year Member
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2010
- Messages
- 46
Cool. I just gotta rock the interview and maybe I will have a chance?
Does wearing a white shirt and tie and black nice pants and nice shoes sound good?
My interview was very basic ( I applied to military academies and the ROTC interview didn't really ask my anything about myself). Also ROTC wants to know if you are academically, physically qualified and want to know about leadership. I work 14 hours a week and am 4-H pres, class pres, 4.52 GPA, 2 varsity sports a year. If you don't get in go to college and try for a 2-year or 3 year ROTC scholarship or go to officer training school.
Do well on your fitness assessment, pushups, crunches and run.
Do well on your fitness assessment, pushups, crunches and run.
kingneptune117
5-Year Member
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2010
- Messages
- 46
Yeah I tried pretty hard on the PFA
Pima
10-Year Member
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2007
- Messages
- 13,900
King,
You have your interview set, for you personally be prepared to address the medical issues you have discussed on this forum if it is in your record.
Again, since you have not had a DodMerb yet, get those records ready if it is something that could be classified as a DQ.
PM MullenLE and see if he can state that the AF will waive the medical issue day in and day out...allergies quickly comes to mind. This will ease the mind of your interviewer when it comes to supporting you for a scholarship.
The interview is one thing, but it could all be for naught if you don't get the medical issues cleared up because AFROTC will not offer a scholarship even if you are academically qualified when you are not medically qualified.
You could be spinning your wheels for nothing. Please take the time and make sure that your medical issue is waiverable.
You have your interview set, for you personally be prepared to address the medical issues you have discussed on this forum if it is in your record.
Again, since you have not had a DodMerb yet, get those records ready if it is something that could be classified as a DQ.
PM MullenLE and see if he can state that the AF will waive the medical issue day in and day out...allergies quickly comes to mind. This will ease the mind of your interviewer when it comes to supporting you for a scholarship.
The interview is one thing, but it could all be for naught if you don't get the medical issues cleared up because AFROTC will not offer a scholarship even if you are academically qualified when you are not medically qualified.
You could be spinning your wheels for nothing. Please take the time and make sure that your medical issue is waiverable.
kingneptune117
5-Year Member
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2010
- Messages
- 46
well are they going to ask me about medical issues during the interview? I already asked Mr. Mullen about my medical condition and he said that he doesnt know if it is classified as a DQ, he said it is a case by case basis. So there is no way to tell until I get the DODMERB. Will they be asking me about medical conditions during the interview?
Actually, I agree with you King... there isn't any point in bringing up a potential medical DQ in your interview. Let the DODMERB handle that separately. Just be prepared emotionally to accept a possible DQ, and gather together your medical records so that you can get them quickly to DODMERB when requested. I have seen the DOD medical questionaire... it is super detailed and about five pages long, single spaced. Just assume you'll be DQ'd and have all your medical records pertinent to that condition ready to send DODMERB.
Well, too late for Army now as the deadline was yesterday, but Navy is still open for application submission.kingneptune said:
Are you aware that many if not most potential officers who dream of being a pilot, when given the choice, choose NROTC/Annapolis over AFROTC/AFA? FYI, there are a LOT of cadets at AFA inquiring currently if possible/how to transfer to Annapolis... can't divulge exactly how I know that for a fact, but it is a common theme in Colorado Springs lately.
Last edited:
wow, you got our attention. what's changed? i am familiar with the other way around, USMA and USNA kids trying to cross commision into usaf to go to upt...So you got to give more than that little teaser.
Lucky, I an not an insider, so take this as an observation from the AFA last spring. I suspect it is related to the broader discussion about why we need a separate Air Force at all, and current military budgeting discussions. Will the Air Force become a Branch of the Army again called Army Air Force/Corps? Honestly I don't know the answer, only the mood.
In the current environment, mobility of Air Power has become more important that ever, in preference to land-based planes and missiles. I guess you could say the strategic importance of land-based air power, vs. mobilely deployed air power (navy) is shifting in favor of mobility, and AF Cadets are sensing this shift.
I just did a quick Google and this is the first hit that came up: http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=abolish_the_air_forceHonestly I don't have time to dig into the issue, but would if I had the time. This article says that Strategic Bombing, which is what the Air Force historically prioritized and took the most pride in, is becoming a near obsolete battle tactic, while close air support of ground troups has become more critical... and close air support might just as well be governed by Army (or Navy).
In the current environment, mobility of Air Power has become more important that ever, in preference to land-based planes and missiles. I guess you could say the strategic importance of land-based air power, vs. mobilely deployed air power (navy) is shifting in favor of mobility, and AF Cadets are sensing this shift.
I just did a quick Google and this is the first hit that came up: http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=abolish_the_air_forceHonestly I don't have time to dig into the issue, but would if I had the time. This article says that Strategic Bombing, which is what the Air Force historically prioritized and took the most pride in, is becoming a near obsolete battle tactic, while close air support of ground troups has become more critical... and close air support might just as well be governed by Army (or Navy).
Last edited:
Pima
10-Year Member
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2007
- Messages
- 13,900
dunninla.
No offense, but I can tell you as a wife of a guy who was an F15E WSO for 20 yrs, you are so off the mark regarding AF fliers wanting to serve in the Army or Navy over the AF.
Actually in the 15E world I can name 3 AF officers at our last base who left the Navy after their time owed and went to the dark side of the AF off the top of my head. I can also tell you I don't know 1 AF officer that went to the Navy after their commitment.
A couple of things:
1. You can't compare Army pilots to AF, because the Army has a small amount of fixed wing, just like the AF has a small amount of helos.
If you want to fly a 16 than you will not go Army. If you want to fly a Cobra than you will not go AF.
2. Not everyone wants to be on a boat if they are a flier. To state that they all would rather be on a boat isn't rational.
The running joke in the AF of why they went that route, besides of course the AF is the corporate branch, is that after shooting at the bad guys in the air, they like to know the runway is in the same place they left it when they took off!
3. The AF going back under the Army's command is nonsensical.
Every branch has a mission.
We are way past that point.
AF exists for Air
Navy for Sea
Army for Land
We all work with each other to complete the mission, but each branch has their own vital role in the mission.
4. Strategic bombing
I clicked your link, but as soon as I saw it was 2007, I realized that it had very little to do with the current AF, worse yet it spent the majority of the article discussing Viet Nam, and WWII, it did not address the fact that the AF in DS and OIF was a big player, along with the Navy. The reason the land war was so short was because the AF and the Navy took out every strategic issue...i.e. they spent days bombing things like the power supplies and runways.
5. Now let's discuss why the AF should exist since the Navy has the ability to do their job too...according to that link.
Fighters have limited range without re-fueling. Currently we have AF bases around the world and in the sandbox, thus, they can stay up in the air without refueling to fight the bad guys much longer than the Navy can
if the carrier is further out because they are at sea.
The AF has bases everywhere from Japan to Turkey to Germany to UK, all able to get to the bad lands faster than a carrier coming out of port. If the Big E is in Norfolk it will take days to get them in striking distance. The AF on the OTOH has a hop, skip and a jump...add in crew rest and they can be in the battle within 36 hours.
6. Army taking the AF over and making it Army Air Corps again.
Okay, so what? What is the achievement by combining them back again?
It is not as if less tax dollars will be spent! Go back and read what their missions are.
It is not as if they are going to close down AF bases.
It is not as if they will not have less personnel.
The only thing you actually accomplish by re-incorporating the AF into the Army is expanding the budget.
It will take yrs/decades to reincorporate the AF into the Army. That means duplication of everything. Rand studies on how to do it. New uniforms, new regs, etc...again more Rand studies.
For what? To keep Pope, Elmendorf, McQuire open as airlifts for the Army, but just change their uniform from blue to green?
Same with Charleston, Ramstein and Incirlick?
All it comes down to if you think about it is the color of the uniform for anyone who believes that the AF should go into another branch. The money will still be spent. They will still be needed. As a taxpayer you just wasted millions of millions of dollars to get rid of them.
Do you want to waste your tax dollars on that, or would you rather waste it on education?
Your choice!
No offense, but I can tell you as a wife of a guy who was an F15E WSO for 20 yrs, you are so off the mark regarding AF fliers wanting to serve in the Army or Navy over the AF.
Actually in the 15E world I can name 3 AF officers at our last base who left the Navy after their time owed and went to the dark side of the AF off the top of my head. I can also tell you I don't know 1 AF officer that went to the Navy after their commitment.
A couple of things:
1. You can't compare Army pilots to AF, because the Army has a small amount of fixed wing, just like the AF has a small amount of helos.
If you want to fly a 16 than you will not go Army. If you want to fly a Cobra than you will not go AF.
2. Not everyone wants to be on a boat if they are a flier. To state that they all would rather be on a boat isn't rational.
The running joke in the AF of why they went that route, besides of course the AF is the corporate branch, is that after shooting at the bad guys in the air, they like to know the runway is in the same place they left it when they took off!
3. The AF going back under the Army's command is nonsensical.
Every branch has a mission.
We are way past that point.
AF exists for Air
Navy for Sea
Army for Land
We all work with each other to complete the mission, but each branch has their own vital role in the mission.
4. Strategic bombing
I clicked your link, but as soon as I saw it was 2007, I realized that it had very little to do with the current AF, worse yet it spent the majority of the article discussing Viet Nam, and WWII, it did not address the fact that the AF in DS and OIF was a big player, along with the Navy. The reason the land war was so short was because the AF and the Navy took out every strategic issue...i.e. they spent days bombing things like the power supplies and runways.
5. Now let's discuss why the AF should exist since the Navy has the ability to do their job too...according to that link.
Fighters have limited range without re-fueling. Currently we have AF bases around the world and in the sandbox, thus, they can stay up in the air without refueling to fight the bad guys much longer than the Navy can
if the carrier is further out because they are at sea.
The AF has bases everywhere from Japan to Turkey to Germany to UK, all able to get to the bad lands faster than a carrier coming out of port. If the Big E is in Norfolk it will take days to get them in striking distance. The AF on the OTOH has a hop, skip and a jump...add in crew rest and they can be in the battle within 36 hours.
6. Army taking the AF over and making it Army Air Corps again.
Okay, so what? What is the achievement by combining them back again?
It is not as if less tax dollars will be spent! Go back and read what their missions are.
It is not as if they are going to close down AF bases.
It is not as if they will not have less personnel.
The only thing you actually accomplish by re-incorporating the AF into the Army is expanding the budget.
It will take yrs/decades to reincorporate the AF into the Army. That means duplication of everything. Rand studies on how to do it. New uniforms, new regs, etc...again more Rand studies.
For what? To keep Pope, Elmendorf, McQuire open as airlifts for the Army, but just change their uniform from blue to green?
Same with Charleston, Ramstein and Incirlick?
All it comes down to if you think about it is the color of the uniform for anyone who believes that the AF should go into another branch. The money will still be spent. They will still be needed. As a taxpayer you just wasted millions of millions of dollars to get rid of them.
Do you want to waste your tax dollars on that, or would you rather waste it on education?
Your choice!
Last edited:
A well reasoned post PIMA.
I am only the messenger, not the message. I observe these things from an armchair. Sometimes I do think 17 year olds are prone to aautomatically think: Fighter Pilot = Air Force, not realizing there are a lot of fast plane drivers in the Navy!
By chance do you know the number of fast plane drivers in the Air Force vs. the Navy?
I am only the messenger, not the message. I observe these things from an armchair. Sometimes I do think 17 year olds are prone to aautomatically think: Fighter Pilot = Air Force, not realizing there are a lot of fast plane drivers in the Navy!
By chance do you know the number of fast plane drivers in the Air Force vs. the Navy?
kingneptune117
5-Year Member
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2010
- Messages
- 46
thats besides the point of this thread really
I have talked to an f-16 pilot many times recently, and he personally told me i should have no problem passing the DODMERB with my hand problem. I will simply not take no for an answer. He says there is a waiver for EVERYTHING. If he says no, i'll just ask what i can do, there must be SOMETHING. Even if he says "Well, you would need this form, but nobody ever gets that"...I will get it.
It's that simple. I am never giving up on my dream. I will go to as many of my civilian doctors for letters of clearance, stating that they think I would be fine. They can all attest to the dexterity of my left hand.
It will probably be a LONG road for me, but I will make it no matter what.
PS. Can anyone confirm whether or not the interviewer will ask medical questions?
PSS I never said I didnt want the Navy because it is harder to get a upt slot there (which it may not be). I have other reasons I dont want navy, such as being on a boat with 4000 other dudes. And other reasons.
I have talked to an f-16 pilot many times recently, and he personally told me i should have no problem passing the DODMERB with my hand problem. I will simply not take no for an answer. He says there is a waiver for EVERYTHING. If he says no, i'll just ask what i can do, there must be SOMETHING. Even if he says "Well, you would need this form, but nobody ever gets that"...I will get it.
It's that simple. I am never giving up on my dream. I will go to as many of my civilian doctors for letters of clearance, stating that they think I would be fine. They can all attest to the dexterity of my left hand.
It will probably be a LONG road for me, but I will make it no matter what.
PS. Can anyone confirm whether or not the interviewer will ask medical questions?
PSS I never said I didnt want the Navy because it is harder to get a upt slot there (which it may not be). I have other reasons I dont want navy, such as being on a boat with 4000 other dudes. And other reasons.
Pima
10-Year Member
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2007
- Messages
- 13,900
I am someone who will always state that you do not join a branch for a specific job, but to wear that uniform.
In other words I bite my tongue when someone says I am going the AF route because I want to fly the 22.
Go the AF route because you want to wear the Blues! You know what they call a Lt that is Intel? LT! You know what they call a pilot that is a lt? LT!
1. The military does not call them fast plane drivers, they call them fighters. This was not meant in antaganostic way, just to inform you of the military slang.
2. I do not know the number
~~ That being stated the thing to look at is not the actual number, but the % of "rated" (fliers) officers compared to non-rated.
The AF could have 1K fighter pilots and the Navy could have 2K, yet at the same time the AF could have 45% rated officers that are in the fighter world while the Navy has 35%. Or Vise a Verse.
Numbers don't really matter, percentages do.
That is how you keep apples with apples. The minute you start using numbers compared to % is the minute you are comparing apples with oranges.
3. To get into the "fast" plane world you need to be the best of the best at UPT.
Statistically from a long term approach you are looking at being the top 10%.
However, again we go back to the needs of each branch at the time you attend UPT.
The AF may not "drop" a fighter because they don't need new blood. the Navy could "drop" 10 because they need new blood.
You cannot predict the needs of UPT regarding an airframe 4 yrs out be it the Navy or the AF.
To be honest if you are willing to fly anything, than the Navy is the route because they give you the option of fixed wing and helos.
If all you want is fixed wing than the AF is something to investigate. If all you want is helos than the Army should be on your list.
Also let me make this 1000% perfectly clear to get that UPT slot, AFA or AFROTC your college gpa is going to matter. For the AFA if you want it you have a 99% chance if you graduate, but the deal is 25% of the incoming class will not graduate. Entering the AFA and graduating are 2 different things.
AFROTC you need to fight for it from a national level. GPA, AFOQT, TCBM, PFA, Commanders rec will all add into the equation. 2.8 and call it a day.
Once at UPT the instructors do not care your commissioning source, it is all about you and the stick.
For AFROTC cadets fearing that they aren't on the same level...read and paste this to your wall.
Bullet was an AFROTC cadet who went to UNT.
He graduated Number 1 at LIFT (Lead In Fighter Training)
Due to not enough pilots compared to WSOs he had 2 pilots to train with for RTU.
He was the 1st RTU student in 30 yrs to get 2 EQs (sim and check ride)
First in 11 yrs to get an EQ in one.
He was the DQ student for RTU.
DQ is not number 1 in the class, but the top 1% for the yr.
He had 2 pilots, 1 was a FAIP (AFA grad) and another was just a UPT grad (AFA grad too).
The UPT grad was FEB'd and lost his wings
Your commissioning source is not a guarantee when it comes to the stick.
I say this because I don't want any candidate to believe that if they go ROTC as plan B that their dreams are over.
Dreams only end when you stop believing.
In other words I bite my tongue when someone says I am going the AF route because I want to fly the 22.
Go the AF route because you want to wear the Blues! You know what they call a Lt that is Intel? LT! You know what they call a pilot that is a lt? LT!
1. The military does not call them fast plane drivers, they call them fighters. This was not meant in antaganostic way, just to inform you of the military slang.
2. I do not know the number
~~ That being stated the thing to look at is not the actual number, but the % of "rated" (fliers) officers compared to non-rated.
The AF could have 1K fighter pilots and the Navy could have 2K, yet at the same time the AF could have 45% rated officers that are in the fighter world while the Navy has 35%. Or Vise a Verse.
Numbers don't really matter, percentages do.
That is how you keep apples with apples. The minute you start using numbers compared to % is the minute you are comparing apples with oranges.
3. To get into the "fast" plane world you need to be the best of the best at UPT.
Statistically from a long term approach you are looking at being the top 10%.
However, again we go back to the needs of each branch at the time you attend UPT.
The AF may not "drop" a fighter because they don't need new blood. the Navy could "drop" 10 because they need new blood.
You cannot predict the needs of UPT regarding an airframe 4 yrs out be it the Navy or the AF.
To be honest if you are willing to fly anything, than the Navy is the route because they give you the option of fixed wing and helos.
If all you want is fixed wing than the AF is something to investigate. If all you want is helos than the Army should be on your list.
Also let me make this 1000% perfectly clear to get that UPT slot, AFA or AFROTC your college gpa is going to matter. For the AFA if you want it you have a 99% chance if you graduate, but the deal is 25% of the incoming class will not graduate. Entering the AFA and graduating are 2 different things.
AFROTC you need to fight for it from a national level. GPA, AFOQT, TCBM, PFA, Commanders rec will all add into the equation. 2.8 and call it a day.
Once at UPT the instructors do not care your commissioning source, it is all about you and the stick.
For AFROTC cadets fearing that they aren't on the same level...read and paste this to your wall.
Bullet was an AFROTC cadet who went to UNT.
He graduated Number 1 at LIFT (Lead In Fighter Training)
Due to not enough pilots compared to WSOs he had 2 pilots to train with for RTU.
He was the 1st RTU student in 30 yrs to get 2 EQs (sim and check ride)
First in 11 yrs to get an EQ in one.
He was the DQ student for RTU.
DQ is not number 1 in the class, but the top 1% for the yr.
He had 2 pilots, 1 was a FAIP (AFA grad) and another was just a UPT grad (AFA grad too).
The UPT grad was FEB'd and lost his wings
Your commissioning source is not a guarantee when it comes to the stick.
I say this because I don't want any candidate to believe that if they go ROTC as plan B that their dreams are over.
Dreams only end when you stop believing.
Pima
10-Year Member
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2007
- Messages
- 13,900
The interviewer may ask about your medical issue if it is visible to them. The reason why is they may be concerned about you getting medically dq. That is also wise for you to be proactive and discussing it with MullenLE, since you were born with this at birth I am sure it has a medical term, just ask on the Dodmerb thread if this condition is waivable. Just because a 16 pilot said it is waivable will not carry as much weight as someone working for DodMerb.
If it is and the condition is visible than be proactive with the interviewer. Tell them you already investigated this through DodMerb and have been informed that they waive on a routine basis this condition with no problem.
I would do this because what if they don't ask, but see it and automatically think you would be medically dq. Chances are they will than think twice about supporting you for that fear, when in reality there is no issue. You don't want to assume the interviewer knows that it is waivable. You should assume that they think it isn't and it is your job to inform them that this is an incorrect assumption.
Good luck
If it is and the condition is visible than be proactive with the interviewer. Tell them you already investigated this through DodMerb and have been informed that they waive on a routine basis this condition with no problem.
I would do this because what if they don't ask, but see it and automatically think you would be medically dq. Chances are they will than think twice about supporting you for that fear, when in reality there is no issue. You don't want to assume the interviewer knows that it is waivable. You should assume that they think it isn't and it is your job to inform them that this is an incorrect assumption.
Good luck
kingneptune117
5-Year Member
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2010
- Messages
- 46
It is a rare condition though and I'm sure the DodMERB have seen it VERY few times. Mullen said the best I can do is wait for the medical and see how it turns out. The best I can do is tell the interview the dexterity is plenty high and I would be able to function fine in combat. Im not going to mention it though. Medical issues should have no influence on his decision.
Pima
10-Year Member
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2007
- Messages
- 13,900
AFROTC is one of the most competitive scholarships out there. They are the smallest ROTC branch and with that comes the smallest budget. There is not an infinite amount of money floating around.
I don't know your stats, and I would say place this issue a side for the moment. Put more emphasis on how strong your application is, and not this. DodMerb will be the deciding factor if you get awarded a scholarship.
The first hump to get over is getting the nod from the interviewer as a top pick, the next is scoring high enough on the WCS from a national perspective to get the scholarship.
Waivers happen so that right now should be at the bottom of the pile when it comes to your concerns.
As much as you may believe that a medical issue should not be a deciding factor interviewer know that it can be the deciding factor of the scholarship. They can have great stats, but if they are medically dq or they fear they will be dq, they could also see that as spinning wheels and best to cut the rope now before going any further in the process. It is nothing personal, but a dollar and cents issue trying to get the best applicants out there.
I know that sounds harsh, but reality is medical dqs in the military are big things. The reason why is because they want a candidate that can serve anywhere in any position, they don't want to be concerned that they will not be able to serve in Korea due to a medical issue that needs special attention during a war. I am not saying yours does, I am just trying to explain why it is such a large issue, and why they seem to be such jerks about what is qualified and what isn't. It really is a big issue of the services needs.
I don't know your stats, and I would say place this issue a side for the moment. Put more emphasis on how strong your application is, and not this. DodMerb will be the deciding factor if you get awarded a scholarship.
The first hump to get over is getting the nod from the interviewer as a top pick, the next is scoring high enough on the WCS from a national perspective to get the scholarship.
Waivers happen so that right now should be at the bottom of the pile when it comes to your concerns.
As much as you may believe that a medical issue should not be a deciding factor interviewer know that it can be the deciding factor of the scholarship. They can have great stats, but if they are medically dq or they fear they will be dq, they could also see that as spinning wheels and best to cut the rope now before going any further in the process. It is nothing personal, but a dollar and cents issue trying to get the best applicants out there.
I know that sounds harsh, but reality is medical dqs in the military are big things. The reason why is because they want a candidate that can serve anywhere in any position, they don't want to be concerned that they will not be able to serve in Korea due to a medical issue that needs special attention during a war. I am not saying yours does, I am just trying to explain why it is such a large issue, and why they seem to be such jerks about what is qualified and what isn't. It really is a big issue of the services needs.
Last edited:
kingneptune117
5-Year Member
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2010
- Messages
- 46
Well there is not much I can do about it until I get the DodMERB exam. I understand medical DQ's are a big deal. I don't see what your point is really. Also, keep in mind, I am joining AFROTC no matter what, scholarship or not. I'm not doing this just for the money.
Last edited: