ALO not responding promptly

The academy sets no "arbitrary" milestones. The only "law" that applies is the federally mandated minimum standard for admission. If a candidate meets/exceeds that standard then they may be admitted or offered admission at any time; there's no requirement that candidate "A" be admitted over candidate "B" based upon any other criteria. The academy uses the "whole person" concept and determines which candidate is the best overall fit.

Early submittal DOES afford an applicant early review by the admissions board. If that applicant is fully qualified for admission, they may be offered an "LOA" or not. There's no timetable for this and no requirement to "wait until all others are in" to compare them.

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83

Except for this:

flieger83 said:
the boards may decide: "By XX November, we will have made YYY offers.

which sounds like an arbitrary milestone to me, we mostly agree. However, The law specifically states that, where the academy chooses, they pick the BEST QUALIFIED BY EXAMINATION, not, to be slightly facetious, those of their choosing who happened to get their packages in soonest who met minimum qualifications or any other standard than the best qualified.
 
I think it is very dangerous advice to imply that courseload and semester grades for senior year do not matter. An 'A' in AP Calculus could well be the 'go, no go' determinant.

mombee; I think it's quite obvious that your senior year grades, the classes you take, retaking of the SAT/ACT, additional EC/Sports, can all contribute to your application. I was simply stating; and I'm sure that 99.999% of those reading my post "understand"; that you shouldn't WAIT until the end before submitting your application. You can "amend" your application for grades, ec, sports, sat/act, as many times as applicable. But all the other things that make the application "COMPLETE" and available for consideration can be done prior to September.

Now you can believe, incorrectly, that you don't have any advantage to having your file reviewed by the board in September compared to say November. If that's what you want to believe; then go for it. Obviously no one is going to change your mind. You also want to believe that there some magical check list is which all applicants have boxes filled out; and that the "Go-NoGo" to an appointment is mathematically determined. It's not. As Fleiger, myself, and others have mentioned numerous times; the academy chooses appointments based on the whole person concept. And that whole person concept only has academics accounting for approximately 65% of the "Whole Person". Realize that of the 10,000 that apply; and the 6500 that are seriously considered; the vast majority of these applicants all have the acceptable gpa/sat/act. As you rightfully recognize, most applicants are at the apex. So it's the other 35% that the academy is judging more harshly on. And how well you follow instructions (Making mistakes on the essay and other online information); how meticulous you are (Did you get your application done in the 45 days or wait until Christmas); how well you did on the CFA; all the EC/Sports/Volunteer time/etc... will all play a part in factoring in the appointments.

The academy is definitely interested in getting the "BEST" applicants of the lot. And just like civilian colleges, they are competing for your business. (Hence the reason for early admissions "LOA"). Unfortunately, YOUR criteria for BEST probably isn't the same as the Air Force's. And that there seems to be the problem. You want to define BEST as a measurable mathematical variable. MOST situps, HIGHEST GPA, HIGHEST SAT/ACT, MOST HOURS volunteered, etc... Sorry, but that isn't how it works. The Air Force; as well as the other academies; have been doing this a very long time. They know and rank the difference between someone being involved with athletics, volunteer time, clubs, etc... their Junior Year where it appears to be "Filling a Square"; and a person who in their application, checklists, essays, etc... has obviously been doing these activities for all of their high school years and possibly before. And that it's part of their personality and nature, and not just a "SQUARE" they are filling. And the academy can see this, and they will RANK or SCORE such activities differently.

Your screen name is "mombee". I assume you are the mother of either a current cadet or one applying/considering applying. I would be very interested in knowing what your son/daughter's experience with their ALO has been??? Has their ALO recommended holding off their application until winter or beyond??? Has their ALO or Counselor at the academy mentioned that there are no advantages to trying to accomplish the application within the 45 days that the academy recommends and suggests???? I'm simply curious. You have a strong opinion on how the appointment process "IS" or at least how it "SHOULD" be. I'd like to know if you're getting this information and forming an opinion based on what your son/daughter's ALO told them????
 
Except for this:
The law specifically states that, where the academy chooses, they pick the BEST QUALIFIED BY EXAMINATION, not, to be slightly facetious, those of their choosing who happened to get their packages in soonest who met minimum qualifications or any other standard than the best qualified.

Actually - the SA is required to pick the highest qualified candidate by WCS for the MOC noms on the slate unless the MOC has provided a ranked slate or a principal. Other than that, they are required to select the candidates who the SA believes will make the class they want - as long as the candidates meet the minimum requirements they can pick any of them, not necessarily the highest scores etc. That is why we hear stories of candidates with pristine statistics (4.0 unweighted GPAs and/or exams etc) that don't get an appointment. There are a ton of stories of kids with less then stellar achievements that get accepted, even LOAs (not just athletes either). I personally am aware of non-athlete candidates with 3.7's weighted GPAs (no HS athletics at all) but strong leadership who got an LOA ...

We absolutely cannot say who will get an appointment or who will not. It simply cannot be done unless you are in admissions. Even those of us involved in the process not within admissions, are sometimes surprised by who gets LOAs and/or appointments and who does not - ask Fleiger that, I am sure he'll confirm that. The fact of the matter is that admissions is required by law to select the best class - and that is not determined exclusively by any one factor.

Getting a file in early DOES have a positive impact on the admissions process. It may not result in a student getting an LOA, but at the margin it at least brings your file to the attention of the board early and often (assuming you update your file as appropriate). Until your file is deemed not competitive, they will keep reviewing it so get your file in front of the board as often as possible - get it in early and update it often (assuming you have substantive material to update it with).

Things to update the file with include: grades, class rank changes, awards, honors, club officer elections, class officer elections, sports captain, sports success. Whatever - it may not make a big difference to your WCS but it gets you in front of the board again and may result in an LOA or it may result in nothing. If it results in nothing, that's okay - when they see your file again, they may remember it ... (yes they have a ton of files, but they do remember things). Make your file stand out ... show interest ... updating your file also shows the level of your dedication - which is also a very strong factor. They want to bring in a class that will graduate .... that cannot be determined on grades or ECs alone. That is also a measure of your dedication and determination to get through. Show them you are determined to graduate. They are not going to bring a stellar candidate in that they are think might not stick it out. Even the best candidate becomes the worst candidate if there is something in their file that implies they will not stick it out through the tough times all the way to graduation.
 
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Other than that, they are required to select the candidates who the SA believes will make the class they want - as long as the candidates meet the minimum requirements they can pick any of them, not necessarily the highest scores etc. That is why we hear stories of candidates with pristine statistics (4.0 unweighted GPAs and/or exams etc) that don't get an appointment. There are a ton of stories of kids with less then stellar achievements that get accepted, even LOAs (not just athletes either). I personally am aware of non-athlete candidates with 3.7's weighted GPAs (no HS athletics at all) but strong leadership who got an LOA ...

Here is the law for the national pool:

150 selected by the Secretary of the Air Force in order of merit (prescribed pursuant to section 9343 of this title) from qualified alternates nominated by persons named in clauses (3) and (4) of subsection (a).

And if the class is still not full:

If the annual quota of cadets under subsection (b)(1), (2), or (3) is not filled, the Secretary may fill the vacancies by nominating for appointment other candidates from any of these sources who were found best qualified on examination for admission and not otherwise nominated.

Pretty straight forward to me. No where do I read anything about the choosing of any they like who are minimally qualified. The stories you hear of pristine candidates are those who meet your definition of pristine, not the admissions board. Since you do not have their packages, your determination is nothing but speculation.

Before I get called on it, the Superintendent can pick any 50 he wants as long as they are minimally qualified but I can give a pretty qualified guess that none of them is as a reward for an early application submittal.

This is a federal institution. They have a responsibility to the public to make all selections in a fair and equitable manner. A fair and equitable manner that will withstand legal scrutiny. Getting an application completed early to the expense of another who got it in later but met all published deadlines would not meet legal scrutiny. All selection criteria must be applied evenly across the board and the best selected.
 
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Excellent and accurate post 2011's Mom. Something that a lot of applicants and their parents keep forgetting is that the academy has a "History" of doing the process of giving appointments. When an applicant, or parent, is vying for an appointment, then look simply at their grade's, tests, EC, etc... They don't see the entire field of applicants. They also have "Rose Colored" glasses on and believe that they get an appointment; they go to BCT; they go to school for 4 years; and they become commissioned officers. NONE; NOT ONE; of them want to admit that possibly their son or daughter; even if they were JrRotc, Boy/Girl Scouts, Parents retired/active duty, etc... may decide to just up and quit. The academy knows this. That's why they offer 2 years of no commitment. There's a lot of things the academy sees in your application. From something your ALO wrote on your interview; to a certain nuance that maybe ALL 3 of your teachers "Mentioned". There are so many aspects of one's application that creates a personality.

As 2011 mom accurately posted, the academy is looking for the BEST CLASS. Not necessarily just the BEST APPLICANT. Many parents and applicants want to believe that their application walks on water. And if they/their kid gets the appointment, then they will admit that the process is "Fair". And if they/their kid doesn't get an appointment, then it's natural to believe that there's something wrong or unfair about the process.

As was already pointed out, each state's district U.S. House Representative is basically guaranteed 1 appointment per class year. (Actually, it's a total of 5 at the academy at any one time, but that's basically 1 a year with the occasional 2nd one in there). That right there is 1/3 of the class. Then there's another 100 of military children. Some more for medal of honor parents. Some prior enlisted. Some ROTC nominees. Some athletes. etc... When you include all these groups, which many applicants fall into more than one category; e.g. Nominations for Representative, Senator, Presidential, Senator, Vice Presidential, ROTC College, etc... There is obviously a lot of diversity in where the appointments come from. And then; whatever slots are left; will come from the general pool that the academy will choose from. They will decide who, for their own reasons, will contribute to the class profile the way they want it. And all these sub categories of nominations and appointment have the ability of be done early. The academy is entrusted to hand out the 100 presidential nominations. They don't wait until march to do that. They give out the entire field of nominations AS THEY ARE APPLIED FOR; and then as the applicant's application is COMPLETED, they begin the review process. If the application is outstanding, and the academy believes the individual is a good fit, and they have a presidential nomination available; they can offer an actual appointment then and there. And that's one of the 100 that will be given out. They don't wait until all applications for a presidential are received.

And of course, the academy is always juggling nominations around. I.e. They have a candidate, for whatever reason, they believe to be perfect. But they don't have any more LOA's to give out; and the applicant wasn't the #1 nominee from their representative. Now the academy is vying to "FIND" a valid nomination for that person. That was something the academy spoke to our state representative and Senator about when my son applied. My son already had his appointment with a presidential nomination the first of November. Our rep and senator LOVES this because it doesn't count towards their max quota and they can have ANOTHER applicant at the academy. Our state ONLY HAS ONE REPRESENTATIVE; and obviously 2 senators. YET, in the class of 2012, the state had 5 applicants get an appointment. So, my son getting a presidential freed up 1 slot for one of the other 4. Of course, the academy would prefer that a state use THEIR MOC slots so the academy can use the presidentials and such on others who couldn't get a MOC primary nomination.

Anyway; there's a lot of jockying going on. And the process is a lot more complicated than many want to believe. But if any ALO or counselor is telling you directly something very specific about the process, I'd be very interested in hearing what they are saying. later... mike.....
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Then mombee; how do you explain "Letters of Assurance". ALL of the academies offer them. How can they possibly offer them if it means offering them as a form of "Early Admission"????

Also; you are defining the words MERIT and EXAMINATION incorrectly. The academy can determine the MERIT of an applicant. And the EXAMINATION is not a "TEST" that the applicant took. It's the academy's EXAMINATION of the applicant's application and file.

Again, I ask, did your son/daughter's ALO tell you some information that we are not aware of? Did your son/daughter's counselor tell them/you something. Is your child at the academy? Maybe they heard something there? Is your child applying for the academy?

Obviously, some of use have experience in the process. Some people like Steve (Fleiger) has more experience than most of us combined. I'm simply trying to determine who is explaining this to you. It's possible that there is something that I am misreading. But I need to know your source.
 
Then mombee; how do you explain "Letters of Assurance". ALL of the academies offer them. How can they possibly offer them if it means offering them as a form of "Early Admission"????

Also; you are defining the words MERIT and EXAMINATION incorrectly. The academy can determine the MERIT of an applicant. And the EXAMINATION is not a "TEST" that the applicant took. It's the academy's EXAMINATION of the applicant's application and file.

I think you actually explained historical data once. Admissions is familiar enough with anticipated applications from past results to know when a truly exceptional record comes across their desk. A record that should get a primary nomination. A record that if the MOC was playing games, would surely end up in the national pool. The record that, without a doubt, the academy wants. Even with some strange twist of fate should that all fail to materialize and they fail to come up with a nomination, be worth one of the Superintendent's fifty at large nominations. That is when they give an LOA. A LOA, by the way, based on the caveat that the candidate receive a nomination.

Since I didn't define merit or examination, I don't understand how I did it incorrectly. Hiring and selecting by merit became a common legal term back in the early days of equal rights. It would be done on the basis of that person's merit, not any esoteric whims of the selector, such as, at the time, race, color, or creed. So order of merit simply means, put them in the order of their qualifications and in order, from top to bottom, offer appointments. Examination simply means they have to devise a fair equitable test to determine order of merit. In this case, the test is the WCS.

Christcorp said:
The academy is entrusted to hand out the 100 presidential nominations. They don't wait until march to do that. They give out the entire field of nominations AS THEY ARE APPLIED FOR;

I will guarantee you that they will not offer them to the first 100 minimally qualified who make application. The above 'examination' and 'order of merit' again apply. You can ascertain, probably from anecdotal evidence, that early appointments are made. Again, historical data. Candidates whom they are positive will be in the top 100. But that last offer, number 100, will not be made until after the presidential nomination letter deadline and they are absolutely looking at the entire slate and the top 100 are offered appointments. Of course, it is often in the best interests of the class as a whole if some of these presidentials are slotted to the MOCs, so those below 100 may move up, again in order of merit.

You know, a lot of people attempt to make this a lot more complicated than it really is.
 
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I agree that the academy doesn't hand out presidentials to the first 100. But what if all 100 are given out by say.......... 15 November. Then, what happens to you applicant who doesn't get his/her application done until say.......... February. And lets assume that applicant is 10 times MORE QUALIFIED. Doesn't that fall into your category of unjustifiable, by determining appointments early.

And for what it's worth; LOA's are NOT given out to "be worth one of the Superintendent's fifty at large nominations" if for some other reason a person isn't nominated. The majority of LOA's get their nominations from their member of congress. Either representative or senator. The academies are vying for your business. Just like every college in the country. And when they see an extreme standout; there is something that they know for sure. "THE ACADEMY IS NOT THE ONLY SCHOOL" that this individual is interested in; or school that is interested in him/her. An LOA is an enticement to the applicant to "HOPE" they will decide to come to the academy. That's what it is. Short and Simple. If an applicant makes it to march, doesn't get a MOC nomination, and the academy really wants them; they don't NEED an LOA to get them. They simply get them a nomination. That's also done a lot. Again, there is only 1 reason for an LOA. It's a "Letter of ASSURANCE". It's an "Early Admissions" promise. It's offering a highly desirable applicant (For whatever reason they are desirable); a promise that they HAVE BEEN ACCEPTED. Of course, they have to be qualified and nominated, but it's an "Early Admissions" offer to entice the applicant to accept the appointment. And even then, the academy knows the student isn't obligated. They can change their mind at any time.

Again, I hope I don't have to keep asking the question. Can you please tell me if your son/daughter's ALO has also agreed with what you're saying? Has your son/daughter's ALO or Counselor recommending NOT following the suggestion of completing and submitting the application within 45 days; or at least "AS SOON AS POSSIBLE". I really need to know what your kid's ALO and Counselor has to say on this matter.
 
^^^^^^ (Oops, double up to homewith4)

Probably more concerned about the advice given than jumping to a conclusion. However, if your son is so concerned to complete by Aug 15, why has he not done his CFA? Why did he not arrange it before school was out? Perhaps the ALO is like me.

Many/most candidates hate CFAs. They always think next week they will do better. So they postpone. Procrastinate. I refuse to schedule an interview until it is complete. Or if we are approaching a deadline, I will not schedule until the CFA is scheduled. And then I will attempt to schedule my interview the day after the CFA. It is really doing them a favor. I have seen completed packages, less the CFA, sit for months.

It appears that mombee is an ALO...
 
I agree that the academy doesn't hand out presidentials to the first 100. But what if all 100 are given out by say.......... 15 November. Then, what happens to you applicant who doesn't get his/her application done until say.......... February. And lets assume that applicant is 10 times MORE QUALIFIED. Doesn't that fall into your category of unjustifiable, by determining appointments early.

I think we are getting somewhere. You might want to wait for flieger to confirm this for you, but, yes, the entire list is not slated until after the 31 January application and presidential nomination deadline to ensure that they capture only the top 100 candidates. To suggest any other way would be suggesting that the academy commit illegal acts. Trust me.

And for what it's worth; LOA's are NOT given out to "be worth one of the Superintendent's fifty at large nominations" if for some other reason a person isn't nominated. The majority of LOA's get their nominations from their member of congress.

And what happens when the MOC's office receives a letter from the academy stating that the candidate has received an LOA. Most MOCs would continue to either submit a competitive list or a list with the most qualified as primary. However, there are a few who will see this as an opportunity to guarantee two appointments from their district. They will submit another candidate as a primary and the LOA candidate as an alternate. Therefore the LOA package criteria must be such that the package will compete well in the national pool. Now, the really sneaky MOCs will leave the LOA completely off the slate. Now the academy is in a bind. They have told a candidate that they really want him, they know that their actions have caused the MOC to perform underhanded, they have an obligation to the LOA, so they will give him one of the Supts at large noms. Happens every year.

Again, I hope I don't have to keep asking the question. Can you please tell me if your son/daughter's ALO has also agreed with what you're saying? Has your son/daughter's ALO or Counselor recommending NOT following the suggestion of completing and submitting the application within 45 days; or at least "AS SOON AS POSSIBLE". I really need to know what your kid's ALO and Counselor has to say on this matter.

I can't imagine where I have ever given you any impression that I have a son or a daughter seeking an AFA appointment or are currently in conversation with an ALO or counselor. Maybe I have my own observations and opinions.
 
IF the SA wanted the BEST applicants, then the top 1300 kids would be selected on March 1st, regardless of location. This would be calculated on gpa, rank, test scores, highest CFA, etc. It would make for an extremely homogenous group. Probably 1/3 from Texas, and 2/3 from the other competitive states.

I personally am satsfied that these powers that be at the SA have a system that takes into account the whole person. Glad I don't have to brush up on my law credentials to understand the process.

mombee, it sounds like you are trying to get answers for a federal lawsuit. Sorry, had to say it.
 
IF the SA wanted the BEST applicants, then the top 1300 kids would be selected on March 1st, regardless of location. This would be calculated on gpa, rank, test scores, highest CFA, etc. It would make for an extremely homogenous group. Probably 1/3 from Texas, and 2/3 from the other competitive states.

I personally am satsfied that these powers that be at the SA have a system that takes into account the whole person. Glad I don't have to brush up on my law credentials to understand the process.

mombee, it sounds like you are trying to get answers for a federal lawsuit. Sorry, had to say it.

Half the class comes from MOCs, where the competition for each slate is solely within that district. Again, federal law. One third of these pick a primary candidate and that candidate, if minimally qualified, receives a nomination. The other two thirds are submitted competitively, which means they allow the academy to make the final selection. This, Admissions accomplishes by selecting on order of merit by examination (the candidate with the greatest whole person score is offered the nomination). The SecAF and the Presidentals are selected the same. The remainder go into the national pool where again, they are ranked by order of merit and the most qualified are offered appointments. One might argue, how truthfully I am not sure, that these favor the more competitive areas. In my experience, no matter how far the hinterlands, there always seems to be a highly qualified candidate or two who would compete will in the pool. If the MOC selects a primary candidate, that offer may be made as soon as the candidate is declared qualified. For the competitives, appointmens can be made only after all the candidates on the slate have submitted their applications and Admissions can, without a doubt, select the most qualified. And the national pool can only commence after ALL the MOCs slates have been filled. With all this said, it would be naive to think that they don't sometimes make educated guesses based on historical data. However, you are more right than wrong with your March 1 date. However, your geographic premise does not legally hold water.

A federal lawsuit. Far from it. Just the opposite. Just trying to prevent the dissemination of false information that would give one who thinks he was treated unfairly and not selected encouragement to think this way.
 
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I never said they did. However, it would seem to me that if all completed packages went immediately before the board, that it would not take as long as it does for many to find out if they are qualified or not.

Those familiar with the AFA process have indicated to me that the selection process works pretty much the same as the Naval Academy so here goes my third hand once removed interpretation of how the AFA process might work. A completed package is received by Admissions and is initially scored by them, not the Board. It will then go before the Board for fine tuning and a final qualified/unqualified determination. So, why will all records not go immediately before the board? First off, the qualified lower end cutoff will vary from year to year. If you will notice, they normally qualify only about 33% more than the number to which they offer appointments. Therefore, the more qualified the class, the higher this cutoff will be and until a substantial portion of the packages have been reviewed by admissions, the general area and then specific point of this cutoff cannot be determined. It is an elusive floating target. Therefore, on marginal packages a qualified/unqualified decision cannot readily be made during the early board sessions. Secondly, marginal records will probably benefit from additional senior year first semester inputs including retaking of SATs/ACTs. Therefore, unless the board spends extra time looking at records twice, it will behoove them to commence with the most highly qualified, get the LOAs out early where they will benefit most, and work their way down the pile, allowing these additional inputs prior to their review. My very limited anecdotal evidence seems to support the marginal not receiving a decision until much later in the process, no matter how quickly they submitted their initial package. Therefore, if an ALO senses, not "decides", that a package might not be LOA material, there is really no super rush to get it before admissions. Sitting on an unanswered email for a week might not be a big deal. Perhaps an ALO could weigh in and tell us if, where and how my assumptions are incorrect?

Please allow me to pose a totally hypothetical question to you. Lets say, for example that the Board can review ten records per week and for their first session, fifty records are available. Would it not be in everyone's best interest if the ten most qualified were reviewed first. If they were done totally in order of receipt, it would be possible in this hypothetical instance for an LOA not to find out for nearly two months which might cause them to go elsewhere.

perhaps a naval academy ALO...not AFA?

mombee: you post with such "authority" and as one very familiar with the process, yet you have been unwilling to give any background/experience on how you formed "own observations and opinions". In addition to Christcorp, I would be interested to know how you have come up with your opinions (ie there is no advantage to completing the application early.)
 
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perhaps a naval academy ALO...not AFA?

mombee: you post with such "authority" and as one very familiar with the process, yet you have been unwilling to give any background/experience on how how formed "own observations and opinions". In addition to Christcorp, I would be interested to know how you have come up with your opinions (ie there is no advantage to completing the application early.)

Fact and opinion.

I have stated several times on this forum that I am a BGO. USNA does not have ALOs. (Fact)

Persons on these forums have consistantly stated that it is beneficial to get one's application submitted early. Why? The academies, all of them, plea for early submittals. Why? Simply to spread out their workload and alleviate the end of year rush. They may even offer a bribe, a few WCS points for a show of dedication. I have heard second hand information that some have stated that an early submittal will ensure a proper in depth review, which might not be possible during the end of year rush. While there might be some truth to this, since inaccurate scoring would most likely be a sin of omission rather than a sin of commission (Leaving something out rather than making something up), I still find it difficult to believe that an Admissions office would admit to not being able to accomplish their mission adequately during the rush season. Therefore, yes, I believe the early submittal thing is overhyped. (Opinion) There is no way that early submission can add more than insignificantly to ones package. (Fact) Legally, an early submittal will never result in an appointment to the exclusion of a more qualified later, within deadline, application. (Fact and Law)

I would hate to seen a candidate, over zealous in his effort for an early submittal, submit less than his best effort.(Fact) Or, more specifically in this thread, in an effort to be the first before the board, place his ALO on report, and subsequently possibly cause an adversarial relationship.

I think my parting comment on this thread will be: You will never hear of the candidate who calls Admissions and when asks why he wasn't selected, be told that he did not submit his application in a timely manner when it was submitted by the published schedule. (Fact) If it was a legitimate legal reason, don't you think they would use it?
 
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OK; Now that I know who "mombee" actually is; let me state to all the others reading this thread, that I have no further intentions of responding directly to any posts made by AKA "mombee". Most of you know me and have communicated one way or the other with me. You also know Fleiger, Pima, Bullet, Hornet, and all the others that are here to pass on their experiences and knowledge. (Please forgive me if I didn't specifically mention your name. There's WAY TOO MANY THAT ARE FINE CONTRIBUTORS). But you get the point. You KNOW who you can trust. You know who you can ask questions of. And none of those "Serious" contributors have any reservations to having others contribute. Especially if we aren't sure of the answer. But I won't continue on with any sort of dialog with "mombee".

You all have read numerous pages on this topic. You applicants and parents understand what it required of you. You understand what a valuable asset your ALO is. You also recognize that there's a lot of current cadets, parents of cadets, ALO's, past cadets, ROTC grads, OTS officers, and prior military personnel in general. In other words; you know which posts you can trust and which ones are suspect. I'm not accusing anyone of anything, simply stating that this thread has pretty much hit a brick wall. I will be more than happy to answer any questions that MOST ANYONE of you have. And if I don't know the answer, I will say that also. And others like those I mentioned earlier are also happy to help. So; best of luck to all of you. The board starts reviewing applications next month. If you can get your applications completed by then; and update it accordingly; you'll become the most competitive that you can be. I wish the best of luck to each and everyone of you. Later.... Mike.....
 
mombee,

If you have a problem with me doing my best and submitting my application early, well... that is your problem. I really don't care about what they do and how it is done. I just know that I am going to do my absolute best to get into the Air Force Academy, and submitting my app early is one of the things that I can do so that I know, if/when I get a rejection letter, that there was nothing else that I could have done to get in. I will be submitting my application by August 15th because that is the end of my 45 days even though they do not really enforce that. On the other hand, you guys at the naval academy do enforce the 45 days (reliable source), so why are you encouraging us to do something that you would never tell one of your own students to do (wait out the 45 and get your app shut down)? My point is: does it really matter to you whether or not we submit our applications early, so far we have not offended either of our ALO's we have just gently reminded them that we need to complete our package. Both homewith4's son and myself are going to give our all at our chance to get into the Air Force Academy, and frankly, I think that we both have good chances for appointments and will hopefully both get in. If you have a problem with two passionate young men that are working towards a career goal of the Air Force and are being responsible people by submitting their paperwork early, then you should not be telling us to wait and possibly decrease our chances.

Later

Brian Andre
 
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^^^^^^^^

Brian, If AFA suggests you attempt, once you commence the process, to complete your application or be locked out of the system, I would never suggest otherwise. I wholeheartedly suggest that you follow all their instructions. BTW, USNA has no such requirement. I have heard of letters going out only once in ten years. If you don't check in periodically, occasionally they will change the password and one will be locked out but it is just a matter of calling the CGO and getting the new one.

All I am attempting to do is dispel the idea that one will be more likely to be appointed if they commence the process early inversely discouraging those who come to these boards at a later date and thusly feel that due to their late application date that they don't have a chance. There could also be valid reasons to wait. These decisions should not be weighted with an undue fear that it will doom their process. One could feel so compelled to apply early that they submit a shoddy application, hoping to get an appointment before they run out. These reasons are why I am posting. I have nothing at all but positive accolades as to your progress to date. Just don't think you deserve undue rewards.
 
Thanks mombee,

I really don't care if getting your application in early gets you an undue advantage or not, but if it somehow does, then every dedicated, motivated, and passionate applicant would get their papers in early. I really don't give a rats *** if it helps or not, but if it does, I would be stupid to not use it to my and every other applicants advantage.

I know you probably won't agree, but if submitting my paperwork early will increase my chances by 0.00000000023124% then I will submit it early. Every little bit helps.

Later
 
Thanks mombee,

I really don't care if getting your application in early gets you an undue advantage or not, but if it somehow does, then every dedicated, motivated, and passionate applicant would get their papers in early. I really don't give a rats *** if it helps or not, but if it does, I would be stupid to not use it to my and every other applicants advantage.

I know you probably won't agree, but if submitting my paperwork early will increase my chances by 0.00000000023124% then I will submit it early. Every little bit helps.

Later

Great attitude. I love it. Good luck.
 
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