Another CFA question!

A

AJ5555

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Joined
Dec 9, 2022
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We have been training for 20months on the CFA, when we started my daughter could do 1 push up, one sit up, and her mile time was 13min. Super proud of her progress! The scores below are from her CFA this morning.

She got an e-mail notifying her of a ‘fail’ but when I input the numbers into the calculator I get a solid passing score. Am I missing something? Maybe her JROTC instructor entered them in for a male?

Women scores:

BBtoss: 36 ft

Pull ups: 4

Shuttle: 10.6

Sit-ups :48

Pushups: 36

Mile 9:10



She ran track last year and a 7:30 is her PR in the mile, so I think she can take some time off there.
 
I think she what she accomplished is amazing! Maybe it’s the sit-ups…. I think the average for females is 78.
 
I don't think this is truly an official USAFA site, but... https://www.academyadmissions.com/requirements/physical/

It shows the following for average scores (note it does not say average score for those receiving an appointment)

Women AVG:

Basketball Throw - 42' your daughter 36'
Pull-Ups - 2 your daughter - 4
Flexed Arm Hang - 31 seconds (I have always been told 1 pull-up is worth more than any time on the flexed arm hang)
Shuttle Run - 9.4 Seconds your daughter - 10.6
Modified Situps/crunches - 78 your daughter - 48
Push-ups - 41 your daughter 36
One Mile run - 7:30 your daughter 9:10

She's below average per the site I referenced in everything but Pull-ups.

I have seen many comments that the basketball throw is simply an event because it's always been an event and carries little to no weight (assuming decent scores in the other events).

Now that it's crunch time (no pun intended) - work on sit-ups and the mile run. Show up with a women's basketball to throw.

My daughter was a level 8 gymnast and maxed the men's scores for everything but the b-ball throw and the mile. Her CFA administrator didn't know to tell her to stop when she reached the max scores) I doubt she threw the basketball 25' (never having thrown anything but a tennis ball for the dog in her life) and received an LOA to USAFA and USNA. You can't have a pacer for the mile but the track doesn't have to be empty either.

Remember, this is one part of the admissions package. There are some large people that struggle with the selected events but might be capable of throwing a discus or shot put a country mile or being a top flight cyclist, or bring something else special to the dance. Call your admissions counselor and see if indeed your daughter passed or failed. Even if they passed but can improve - improve.

Regardless - your daughter has made significant improvement in how USAFA measures physical fitness. If she gets another shot at the CFA - follow a prescribed workout focused on those events. There is a former USN SEAL and USNA grad who has an excellent program. Now that she has established a relatively solid base, she could be in a position to make dramatic gains with proper focus.

The shuttle run is a lot of technique. The basketball throw has a lot of technique involved. The mile run for non runners is purely based on guts.
 
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Thanks! Yes, those are the averages from the USAFA web site. We know the scores are 'below average' but based on the Assessment calculator (I know , 3rd party) she should have 'passed'. She is reaching out to her ALO to see if she can get any more advice as well.
 
I am not one of those that believe you need to max everything to get in (Hell, I got in and graduated). But being below average in virtually all events might be 'passing' but she better be bringing something else special to the dance if she is weak in one of the key areas they assess.

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Stew is the USN SEAL that created the CFA workout program. I have no idea how many weeks are needed to prepare using his program.

At 50, I used the P90X program and made tremendous strides in my physical fitness: pull-ups, sit-ups, push-ups. Those days are gone now, but it sounds like your daughter has a base to build upon.
 
If you can afford it and your daughter wants it - get a personal trainer to work with her for the next 30 days. A trainer that trains athletes and make certain they know what areas to focus on to maximize the return. I would put very little time into the basketball throw, but push-ups, sit-ups, the shuttle run and the mile.

There were multiple people running on the track when my daughter took the CFA. No one was pacing her, but she's naturally competitive and seeing someone in front of her helped her dramatically on the mile run.

The shuttle run is also a technical event. Basketball,, soccer, volleyball, football coaches - they know how to improve footwork and explosiveness
 
AJ5555 said:
We have been training for 20months on the CFA, when we started my daughter could do 1 push up, one sit up, and her mile time was 13min. Super proud of her progress! The scores below are from her CFA this morning.

She got an e-mail notifying her of a ‘fail’ but when I input the numbers into the calculator I get a solid passing score. Am I missing something? Maybe her JROTC instructor entered them in for a male?

Women scores:

BBtoss: 36 ft

Pull ups: 4

Shuttle: 10.6

Sit-ups :48

Pushups: 36

Mile 9:10



She ran track last year and a 7:30 is her PR in the mile, so I think she can take some time off there.
Click to expand...
So for reference, I am also female, and I got about the same scores 3 weeks ago and passed, so I am surprised her scores did not. I got abv avg in BB, maxed FAH (could not do pull-ups), had a 9.7 shuttle, 65 sit-ups, 30 pushups, and a 8:03 mile. Overall I feel like your daughter's scores are a bit more impressive than mine due to the pull-ups and push-ups, so I think if she just brings her mile down by half a minute and does 10 more situps she should do great!
 
I would guess it is the sit-ups and mile time. (she also should be able to get a bball toss by watching technique videos on youtube.) Good luck! She has made great progress already, I am sure she can get it across the finish line in 30 days!
 
nicksand18 said:
So for reference, I am also female, and I got about the same scores 3 weeks ago and passed, so I am surprised her scores did not. I got abv avg in BB, maxed FAH (could not do pull-ups), had a 9.7 shuttle, 65 sit-ups, 30 pushups, and a 8:03 mile. Overall I feel like your daughter's scores are a bit more impressive than mine due to the pull-ups and push-ups, so I think if she just brings her mile down by half a minute and does 10 more situps she should do great!
Click to expand...
Thanks! yes, I feel like she is close. We are hopefully going to get some clarification. Thanks for sharing your experience!
 
NavyHopefulMom2027 said:
I would guess it is the sit-ups and mile time. (she also should be able to get a bball toss by watching technique videos on youtube.) Good luck! She has made great progress already, I am sure she can get it across the finish line in 30 days!
Click to expand...
Thanks! Yes, we have the bbtoss video and it greatly helped her. she went from 22ft to 36ft using that.
 
Cerberi said:
I don't think this is truly an official USAFA site, but... https://www.academyadmissions.com/requirements/physical/

It shows the following for average scores (note it does not say average score for those receiving an appointment)

Women AVG:

Basketball Throw - 42' your daughter 36'
Pull-Ups - 2 your daughter - 4
Flexed Arm Hang - 31 seconds (I have always been told 1 pull-up is worth more than any time on the flexed arm hang)
Shuttle Run - 9.4 Seconds your daughter - 10.6
Modified Situps/crunches - 78 your daughter - 48
Push-ups - 41 your daughter 36
One Mile run - 7:30 your daughter 9:10

She's below average per the site I referenced in everything but Pull-ups.

I have seen many comments that the basketball throw is simply an event because it's always been an event and carries little to no weight (assuming decent scores in the other events).

Now that it's crunch time (no pun intended) - work on sit-ups and the mile run. Show up with a women's basketball to throw.

My daughter was a level 8 gymnast and maxed the men's scores for everything but the b-ball throw and the mile. Her CFA administrator didn't know to tell her to stop when she reached the max scores) I doubt she threw the basketball 25' (never having thrown anything but a tennis ball for the dog in her life) and received an LOA to USAFA and USNA. You can't have a pacer for the mile but the track doesn't have to be empty either.

Remember, this is one part of the admissions package. There are some large people that struggle with the selected events but might be capable of throwing a discus or shot put a country mile or being a top flight cyclist, or bring something else special to the dance. Call your admissions counselor and see if indeed your daughter passed or failed. Even if they passed but can improve - improve.

Regardless - your daughter has made significant improvement in how USAFA measures physical fitness. If she gets another shot at the CFA - follow a prescribed workout focused on those events. There is a former USN SEAL and USNA grad who has an excellent program. Now that she has established a relatively solid base, she could be in a position to make dramatic gains with proper focus.

The shuttle run is a lot of technique. The basketball throw has a lot of technique involved. The mile run for non runners is purely based on guts.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the input! We thought about a women's size basketball, but the instructions say it has to be men's size. I told her no one would notice and she said 'No Dad, integrity first'.... if she gets in they will be lucky to have her. :)
 
Cerberi said:
I don't think this is truly an official USAFA site, but... https://www.academyadmissions.com/requirements/physical/

It shows the following for average scores (note it does not say average score for those receiving an appointment)

Women AVG:

Basketball Throw - 42' your daughter 36'
Pull-Ups - 2 your daughter - 4
Flexed Arm Hang - 31 seconds (I have always been told 1 pull-up is worth more than any time on the flexed arm hang)
Shuttle Run - 9.4 Seconds your daughter - 10.6
Modified Situps/crunches - 78 your daughter - 48
Push-ups - 41 your daughter 36
One Mile run - 7:30 your daughter 9:10

She's below average per the site I referenced in everything but Pull-ups.

I have seen many comments that the basketball throw is simply an event because it's always been an event and carries little to no weight (assuming decent scores in the other events).

Now that it's crunch time (no pun intended) - work on sit-ups and the mile run. Show up with a women's basketball to throw.

My daughter was a level 8 gymnast and maxed the men's scores for everything but the b-ball throw and the mile. Her CFA administrator didn't know to tell her to stop when she reached the max scores) I doubt she threw the basketball 25' (never having thrown anything but a tennis ball for the dog in her life) and received an LOA to USAFA and USNA. You can't have a pacer for the mile but the track doesn't have to be empty either.

Remember, this is one part of the admissions package. There are some large people that struggle with the selected events but might be capable of throwing a discus or shot put a country mile or being a top flight cyclist, or bring something else special to the dance. Call your admissions counselor and see if indeed your daughter passed or failed. Even if they passed but can improve - improve.

Regardless - your daughter has made significant improvement in how USAFA measures physical fitness. If she gets another shot at the CFA - follow a prescribed workout focused on those events. There is a former USN SEAL and USNA grad who has an excellent program. Now that she has established a relatively solid base, she could be in a position to make dramatic gains with proper focus.

The shuttle run is a lot of technique. The basketball throw has a lot of technique involved. The mile run for non runners is purely based on guts.
Click to expand...
That site is the official USAFA admissions website
 
Its awesome to see the determination of your DD for over 20 months. The CFA is designed to test strength and stamina so if she focuses to improve on the later part (after she is done with the first part) it will help her. Improving on the Sit-ups, Pushups and Mile will go a long way. All the very best to her.
 
I would bet money it’s that mile time that caused a fail. Maybe sit-ups, but I think the mile is further off from acceptable. Keeping an eye on this site over the years, I haven’t seen many (maybe any?) pass with times much greater than about 8:30. The rest are fairly decent and I would bet that the 4 pull-ups really helps offset the slightly below average 36 push-ups.
 
AJ5555 said:
We have been training for 20months on the CFA, when we started my daughter could do 1 push up, one sit up, and her mile time was 13min. Super proud of her progress! The scores below are from her CFA this morning.

She got an e-mail notifying her of a ‘fail’ but when I input the numbers into the calculator I get a solid passing score. Am I missing something? Maybe her JROTC instructor entered them in for a male?

Women scores:

BBtoss: 36 ft

Pull ups: 4

Shuttle: 10.6

Sit-ups :48

Pushups: 36

Mile 9:10



She ran track last year and a 7:30 is her PR in the mile, so I think she can take some time off there.
Click to expand...
From what I've read, I'm aware that there's an overall score + a minimum score per event. I think her overall "should" be a passing score, but likely the mile time was below the minimum score.

From a fellow applicant to another, best of luck to your daughter!
 
USAFA10s said:
I would bet money it’s that mile time that caused a fail. Maybe sit-ups, but I think the mile is further off from acceptable. Keeping an eye on this site over the years, I haven’t seen many (maybe any?) pass with times much greater than about 8:30. The rest are fairly decent and I would bet that the 4 pull-ups really helps offset the slightly below average 36 push-ups.
Click to expand...
Thanks! That was the one event during the test that she was disappointed in. It was 21 degrees out and she didn't think she did a good job pacing herself. Most of the practice runs have been in the 8 to 830 range. Her PR is a 738 during a raider competition.
 
I followed the above conversation...I saw the comparison of scores.

From the ALO's perspective.

1. I have had TOO many candidates use the online "scorer" and say "I'm gonna do great" only to have them fail. I do not trust online scoring sites; not one of them.
2. The comparison of scores...
BBtoss: 36 ft USAFA AVG: 42 ft
Pull ups: 4 USAFA AVG: 2 (She WINS here)
Shuttle: 10.6 USAFA AVG: 9.4 (a full second...this is low)
Sit-ups :48 USAFA AVG: 78 (IMHO, this is fatal)
Pushups: 36 USAFA AVG: 41 (close enough if the other scores are near average)
Mile 9:10 USAFA AVG: 7:30 (Again, IMHO this is fatal)

What I've seen over the years is this: if the scores are "fairly close" to the averages, no problem. If one is up, one is down, or two and two...depending upon HOW different...they may be fine. However, when there's a LOW score on a strength test and then the run...it's usually not a good result.

Did the testing official remark about the weather: extreme temperature, any wind/wind chill? That's something that should be shared with the results.

She's got a tough challenge...however, if she's a JROTC Raider...she has the inner "stuff" to press ahead!!

Best of luck to her!!!

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
 
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