Anyone hear about something down at USNA?

Those punishments seem a LOT less than what I was expecting.
Time will tell if there are any Courts martial in these Mid's futures.
 
The punishments aren’t done. The admin process is one thing, it won’t preclude UCMJ charges from coming. Drug use will result in them being separated regardless. It just takes awhile to make it thru the chain and the SecNav to sign off on them. For the ones with future charges regardinf drug dealing, I suspect they will also be put on legal hold pending court martial eventually.
 
Those punishments seem a LOT less than what I was expecting.
Time will tell if there are any Courts martial in these Mid's futures.

Much depends on whether they were using or distributing, and amounts found.

I am fairly sure they will be separated. They should be, or zero tolerance is a joke. Fleet Sailors go to mast (non-judicial punishment, administrative versus criminal) for usage offenses, and will typically get punishment and separation. The USNA “adjudication” is the same kind of administrative disciplinary process.

If they are 2/c or 1/c, they will owe the 6-figure payback.

Those separated for this kind of reason will usually get an RE-4 code on their DD-214 - not eligible for any kind of military service. Ever. Future govt service jobs will also be impacted because they will have trouble getting a security clearance. The long-term consequences are tangible.
 
I saw the following in the article... "Another four are being disciplined for failing to report the behavior..." Naive/newbie question, but with honor concept violations are Mids instructed on when to report such problems vs. when to take up the issue directly with the perpetrators? Just curious if with these four Mids it was a lapse in judgement, or something they clearly should've known they were expected to do...(?)
 
There is a difference between honor and conduct offenses. Mids are required to report honor offenses. If they do not they can be brought on honor charges. Mids receive an extensive amount of honor training at USNA and during Plebe Summer. Each company has an honor rep who can answer any questions. Conduct charges are different. There are USNA regulations and then there is the UCMJ. I don’t remember there being a stipulation that you turn in someone for conduct, but the UCMJ has some catch all codes like conduct unbecoming which can be used for many things. Capt MJ, you remember there being a USNA reg that requires Mids to report conduct? Maybe drugs there is? Heck if it was for all conduct... I would of failed that one a lot!
 
@NavyHoops

It’s the “aiding and abetting,” often used in those cases, say, when the Ski Club goes on a movement order, and the upperclass in charge allows or has knowledge of underage drinking or other prohibited activities.

Here’s the key legalese on Article 77 from the UCMJ punitive articles:

“Article 77, UCMJ, imposes liability as a principal on one who (1) assists, encourages, advises, counsels, or commands another in the commission of the offense, and (2) shares in the criminal purpose of design).

The elements of aiding and abetting are: (1) the specific intent to facilitate the crime by another, (2) guilty knowledge on the part of the accused, (3) that an offense was being committed by someone, and (4) that the accused assisted or participated in the commission of the offense.”

USNA employs this one when the primary offense by others is drugs, alcohol or other high-interest offenses.

I speculate in this case maybe roommates, friends or classmates allowed storage of prohibited substances in their room or vehicle or team locker, or observed and said nothing, even if they did not partake in usage.

It’s the direct counterweight to “don’t bilge a classmate.” I tell our sponsor mids they will see a lot of things, and to draw the line at UCMJ criminal offenses, not just doing them, but failing to take action when it’s the right thing to do, regardless of peer pressure.
 
Forgot about that one. If they used that charge for every underage drinking we wouldn’t have many Mids left. Usually only saw that charge when someone knowingly bought for someone underage.
 
There is a difference between honor and conduct offenses. Mids are required to report honor offenses. If they do not they can be brought on honor charges.

This is not true, this is the specific difference the USNA honor concept has from other service academies. We do not have a "toleration clause" like West Point and Air Force have.
 
Sorry, I meant conduct charges. They can be brought up on conduct for not reporting honor.
 
Sorry, I meant conduct charges. They can be brought up on conduct for not reporting honor.

That is still not true though. There is NO requirement to report a honor offense in either the conduct or honor system, that is a key concept in the USNA honor system.


Even in the conduct system there are not "knowledge" offenses. A midshipmen has to be involved in some way to be charged.
 
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There used to be a requirement, then it has changed. Capt MJ, do you know when this changed? I can tell it was a requirement because I was charged with it. Heck I still even have my form 2 for it. And my room mate was on the Honor Board and even confirmed for me. At my adjudication I was cleared of everything.
 
There used to be a requirement, then it has changed. Capt MJ, do you know when this changed? I can tell it was a requirement because I was charged with it. Heck I still even have my form 2 for it. And my room mate was on the Honor Board and even confirmed for me. At my adjudication I was cleared of everything.

I think the element of simple “knowledge of” and requirement to report has been variously applied or interpreted over the years. Article 77 is one of those that gets argued about a lot .

That said, I don’t know if there has been a specific local change to current application. We all know excerpts of rules can be taken out of context and turn into something different when passed by word of mouth and flavored with wishful thinking. We have some laughs here at the house when a mid asks “is it true (something just a bit off),” and I respond with “let’s actually read Mid Regs/UCMJ/Navy Regs, then discuss.” Then we will see how far the word in the street has strayed due to “well, my brother was a mid here in 2012, and his roommate’s friend got in trouble for doing x and he was fried for/allowed to (fill in blank).”

In this particular case, I am sure precedent was carefully considered in the charges brought, especially if the more indirectly involved mids’ actions rose to a higher level than “knew about it.” We are unlikely to know, due to Privacy Act.

Here’s the USNA ref, haven’t had time to research, hope it’s the most current:
https://www.usna.edu/Commandant/Directives/Instructions/1000-1999/COMDTMIDNINST 1610.2G W_CH-5.pdf
 
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There used to be a requirement, then it has changed. Capt MJ, do you know when this changed? I can tell it was a requirement because I was charged with it. Heck I still even have my form 2 for it. And my room mate was on the Honor Board and even confirmed for me. At my adjudication I was cleared of everything.

I don't believe there was a requirement to report honor offenses in the 80's... That was what distinguished USNA from USMA and USAFA, both of which have "or will not tolerate those that do..." clauses. There was however, a duty to do something ... which included a range of options, including privately counseling the offender. My vague recollection is that the failure to do anything was treated as a conduct, not an honor, offense.
 
Agree that things get interpreted differently over time. It’s a great lesson for Mids on how even challenging it can be in the fleet. Commander’s discretion is used heavily in the fleet and that even goes with being a brand new DivO. Being consistent and transparent on things like this are so important but also very challenging.
 
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Those punishments seem a LOT less than what I was expecting.
Time will tell if there are any Courts martial in these Mid's futures.
I know at USAFA they've had a trend of courts martial for serious offenses.

And THParent, just for you:

-... ..- - / .. / -.. --- -. .----. - / .-.. .. -.- . / --- ...- .- .-.. - .. -. .

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
 
I think the "Knowledge of..." requirement at USMA can go too far. I know of at least one Cadet who was given an alcohol board for the offense of giving a fellow Cadet who was too drunk to drive a ride and not reporting him.
 
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