AROTC Class of 2014 Branching

I'm a bit late on this conversation (thanks SERE school :( ... ) but I congratulate all the cadets on their branch and component assignments. For those of you who made AD, awesome job.

In regard to the increasing % of RD assignments, it sucks, but it makes sense with the way that the Army is going right now. With the drawdown of AD in the next several years and the Army trying to push a lot of people into the NG/USAR, it makes sense that it's about a 50/50 split.

Just realize that this pain is being felt by soldiers throughout the entire Army, not just cadets in the accessions process. Here at flight school, we were told by our BOLC cadre that 30% of Captains in YG 2007-2008 are being looked at for involuntary separation. There was a considerable amount of stress on them for something that is largely outside of their control, even as seasoned officers and aviators. There are large QMP and QSP boards being held for CPT-MAJ and last I looked, 60% of active duty SSG-SFC are being looked at for being boarded out as well.

This happens every time that our military draws down from a conflict and the pain is felt by pretty much every servicemember, regardless of rank. The only real ones that are "safe" (safe being a relative term) are those in BOLC right now and folks in their safe retirement window at 17+ years of service.

That being said, having been both a reservist and active duty soldier, the Army has a lot of opportunities and challenges regardless of the component in which you serve. Some of the best soldiers and leaders I've had the privilege to serve under were in the USAR. I wish all you guys/gals good luck and make the most of the assignment you received!
 
khergan said:
I'm a bit late on this conversation (thanks SERE school :( ... ) but I congratulate all the cadets on their branch and component assignments. For those of you who made AD, awesome job.

In regard to the increasing % of RD assignments, it sucks, but it makes sense with the way that the Army is going right now. With the drawdown of AD in the next several years and the Army trying to push a lot of people into the NG/USAR, it makes sense that it's about a 50/50 split.

Just realize that this pain is being felt by soldiers throughout the entire Army, not just cadets in the accessions process. Here at flight school, we were told by our BOLC cadre that 30% of Captains in YG 2007-2008 are being looked at for involuntary separation. There was a considerable amount of stress on them for something that is largely outside of their control, even as seasoned officers and aviators. There are large QMP and QSP boards being held for CPT-MAJ and last I looked, 60% of active duty SSG-SFC are being looked at for being boarded out as well.

This happens every time that our military draws down from a conflict and the pain is felt by pretty much every servicemember, regardless of rank. The only real ones that are "safe" (safe being a relative term) are those in BOLC right now and folks in their safe retirement window at 17+ years of service.

That being said, having been both a reservist and active duty soldier, the Army has a lot of opportunities and challenges regardless of the component in which you serve. Some of the best soldiers and leaders I've had the privilege to serve under were in the USAR. I wish all you guys/gals good luck and make the most of the assignment you received!
Click to expand...

Congrats on SERE! very tough school! The downsizing is coming and we have been here before. 1946, 1954, 1974 and 1992. It is going to be tough on a lot of people and families.
 
81 Score a Possibility for AD

I am at a pretty competitive school and this year was no different. I am not on the OML therefore do no know if I got AD or Reserve. I will be placed on a standby board with next summers end of camp commissions.

I have a 3.4 GPA and got an E at camp and top 5 in the platoon. yet my OMS is an 81 I am thoroughly confused for starters. My MS 3 PMS ranking was bottom portion of the class so i think i lost a lot of points. My opinion but the guy was very much a favoritism type of guy i was at the bottom because I came in as a Junior on Green to Gold so i wasn't one of the people he recruited and took care of. but ANYWAYS. beyond that we have a new PMS and he and I both realize there is nothing he can do about the junior year evaluation and ranking. From what I can see on this threat I, as well as many other people, are extremely confused on the OML placement and AD cut offs.

Is it possible to get AD with an 81.5? is it possible that a cadet that has a 3.4 GPA, an E at Camp (top 5), and a 250ish PT score will not make active duty cut off?
 
Bison14 said:
I am at a pretty competitive school and this year was no different. I am not on the OML therefore do no know if I got AD or Reserve. I will be placed on a standby board with next summers end of camp commissions.

I have a 3.4 GPA and got an E at camp and top 5 in the platoon. yet my OMS is an 81 I am thoroughly confused for starters. My MS 3 PMS ranking was bottom portion of the class so i think i lost a lot of points. My opinion but the guy was very much a favoritism type of guy i was at the bottom because I came in as a Junior on Green to Gold so i wasn't one of the people he recruited and took care of. but ANYWAYS. beyond that we have a new PMS and he and I both realize there is nothing he can do about the junior year evaluation and ranking. From what I can see on this threat I, as well as many other people, are extremely confused on the OML placement and AD cut offs.

Is it possible to get AD with an 81.5? is it possible that a cadet that has a 3.4 GPA, an E at Camp (top 5), and a 250ish PT score will not make active duty cut off?
Click to expand...


From what I've seen it looks really close to the bubble, what happened with the 250 PT score?
 
Last edited:
Just never been a PT stud... running is the weakness. I was an NCO and even then never got a 300 because I could never run under a 13 min two mile.

Took too much time off and got lazy between AD and ROTC so my MS 3 PT tests that counted heavily I was playing catch up. my own fault.
 
Bison14 said:
Just never been a PT stud... running is the weakness. I was an NCO and even then never got a 300 because I could never run under a 13 min two mile.

Took too much time off and got lazy between AD and ROTC so my MS 3 PT tests that counted heavily I was playing catch up. my own fault.
Click to expand...

I feel you on that one, I have gotten close to 13 but never under.
 
Bison14 said:
I am at a pretty competitive school and this year was no different. I am not on the OML therefore do no know if I got AD or Reserve. I will be placed on a standby board with next summers end of camp commissions.

I have a 3.4 GPA and got an E at camp and top 5 in the platoon. yet my OMS is an 81 I am thoroughly confused for starters. My MS 3 PMS ranking was bottom portion of the class so i think i lost a lot of points. My opinion but the guy was very much a favoritism type of guy i was at the bottom because I came in as a Junior on Green to Gold so i wasn't one of the people he recruited and took care of. but ANYWAYS. beyond that we have a new PMS and he and I both realize there is nothing he can do about the junior year evaluation and ranking. From what I can see on this threat I, as well as many other people, are extremely confused on the OML placement and AD cut offs.

Is it possible to get AD with an 81.5? is it possible that a cadet that has a 3.4 GPA, an E at Camp (top 5), and a 250ish PT score will not make active duty cut off?
Click to expand...

I'm no expert and only know about LDAC from what I read on her and what my daughter has told me but in my opinion, that E score should count for a lot more than your GPA. I don't care if your GPA was a 1.2. If you excelled at camp where *theoretically*, your true leadership abilities are demonstrated, that is what will help you in a real world situation.

Good luck to you!!
 
Bison14 said:
I am at a pretty competitive school and this year was no different. I am not on the OML therefore do no know if I got AD or Reserve. I will be placed on a standby board with next summers end of camp commissions.

I have a 3.4 GPA and got an E at camp and top 5 in the platoon. yet my OMS is an 81 I am thoroughly confused for starters. My MS 3 PMS ranking was bottom portion of the class so i think i lost a lot of points. My opinion but the guy was very much a favoritism type of guy i was at the bottom because I came in as a Junior on Green to Gold so i wasn't one of the people he recruited and took care of. but ANYWAYS. beyond that we have a new PMS and he and I both realize there is nothing he can do about the junior year evaluation and ranking. From what I can see on this threat I, as well as many other people, are extremely confused on the OML placement and AD cut offs.

Is it possible to get AD with an 81.5? is it possible that a cadet that has a 3.4 GPA, an E at Camp (top 5), and a 250ish PT score will not make active duty cut off?
Click to expand...

Were you Green to Gold Active Duty Option? If so your guaranteed AD.
 
Jcleppe said:
Were you Green to Gold Active Duty Option? If so your guaranteed AD.
Click to expand...

Not only are guaranteed, you HAVE to go AD. We had a cadet who was a SNCO who really wanted to go guard to finish his career but no dice...
 
Bison14 said:
I am at a pretty competitive school and this year was no different. I am not on the OML therefore do no know if I got AD or Reserve. I will be placed on a standby board with next summers end of camp commissions.

I have a 3.4 GPA and got an E at camp and top 5 in the platoon. yet my OMS is an 81 I am thoroughly confused for starters. My MS 3 PMS ranking was bottom portion of the class so i think i lost a lot of points. My opinion but the guy was very much a favoritism type of guy i was at the bottom because I came in as a Junior on Green to Gold so i wasn't one of the people he recruited and took care of. but ANYWAYS. beyond that we have a new PMS and he and I both realize there is nothing he can do about the junior year evaluation and ranking. From what I can see on this threat I, as well as many other people, are extremely confused on the OML placement and AD cut offs.

Is it possible to get AD with an 81.5? is it possible that a cadet that has a 3.4 GPA, an E at Camp (top 5), and a 250ish PT score will not make active duty cut off?
Click to expand...

When were you told you had an 81.5? September? Last week? It matters because the scores were supposedly adjusted once or twice before the board.
 
I was told 81.5 today (27NOV) and told I will be on the standby board for end of camp commissionees at the end of next summer in august. I heard something of the scores being adjusted and my hope is that mine is reflected of the adjustment already and will NOT lower any further.
 
My score was an 81 before people started talking about their OMS going up and then dropping. I got active duty. That's far from a firm answer, but I hope it helps.

Also, I shot you a PM on an unrelated question.
 
Bison14 said:
I was told 81.5 today (27NOV) and told I will be on the standby board for end of camp commissionees at the end of next summer in august. I heard something of the scores being adjusted and my hope is that mine is reflected of the adjustment already and will NOT lower any further.
Click to expand...

If you are end of camp then you shouldnt know your final OML score yet because it will be based off your gpa at the end of this spring quarter and pt this year. The nice thing is there's not as much mystery for you because it will be the same cutoff line so you'll probably know if your likely to get active or not before accessions based on the stats of the people this year who got it.
 
Bison14 said:
I am at a pretty competitive school and this year was no different. I am not on the OML therefore do no know if I got AD or Reserve. I will be placed on a standby board with next summers end of camp commissions.

I have a 3.4 GPA and got an E at camp and top 5 in the platoon. yet my OMS is an 81 I am thoroughly confused for starters. My MS 3 PMS ranking was bottom portion of the class so i think i lost a lot of points. My opinion but the guy was very much a favoritism type of guy i was at the bottom because I came in as a Junior on Green to Gold so i wasn't one of the people he recruited and took care of. but ANYWAYS. beyond that we have a new PMS and he and I both realize there is nothing he can do about the junior year evaluation and ranking. From what I can see on this threat I, as well as many other people, are extremely confused on the OML placement and AD cut offs.

Is it possible to get AD with an 81.5? is it possible that a cadet that has a 3.4 GPA, an E at Camp (top 5), and a 250ish PT score will not make active duty cut off?
Click to expand...


I had similar stats this year, 3.0 GPA, E at camp, 270 PT Score, bottom portion MSIII PMS eval and did not make active duty. PMS evaluation is worth a lot more than people realize.
 
Bison14 said:
... is it possible that a cadet that has a 3.4 GPA, an E at Camp (top 5), and a 250ish PT score will not make active duty cut off?
Click to expand...
Let me break that into its component parts for comment:

- 3.4 GPA: that is certainly well above the GPA of many who got AD

- 250 PFT: OK, this is killing you. Seriously. It is not just that 11% of your OMS is composed of Fall, Spring, and LDAC APFT scores, but those scores also strongly influence your PMS evaluation of you. There are some PMS who will really score you low in the PMS portions of the OMS due to that mediocre APFT score. Definitely bottom 25% of your competitors for that AD slot. There are some Battalions that won't give an A in ROTC class to any cadet under 270 APFT score.

- E at camp obviously is above most of those above the AD cutoff line, but it isn't any more a part of your total OMS than the PMS evals.
 
Cadet2014 is spot on, the PMS eval is worth a lot more this year, more then the LDAC score. The Athletics section is worth 15% of your score which includes the APFT as well as extra athletics. If you did not participate in other athletics beside just the APFT then it would result in less points. The two recorded APFT scores your MS3 year count more then the one you take at LDAC.

IF you subtract backwards from 101 since you were top 5 and received that extra point you can get somewhat of an idea of your score. Minus 6 points for GPA, up to 6 points for the Athletic section and that leaves a possible 89. You wouldn't have to deduct many points from the PMS eval to reach a 81.5.

PMS scale have become very important, APFT has always been a big factor.
 
Yes all of this conversation makes sense. What does not however is some of the shadiness behind Cadet Commands decisions with this years accessions. They have produced absolutely no justification (be it an Actual OML by numbers or an actual cut off score) for the reasoning of who made AD and who did not. There are, from what has been said, many cadets with vastly differing scores that made and did not make AD. A cadet with an 83 didn't make it when a Cadet with a 79 did.

As for the PMS eval I don't quite understand why they made that change personally I don't think one person should be able to influence things that much especially with small schools.
 
If you read into some of what's being said online you'll find that many of those who think they have higher scores than others actually don't. They were simply told their scores at different times. Considering the adjustments made to scores this year, they could be comparing scores that are off by a huge margin. Also, the special degree programs put in place this year means there are a number of Cadets who were below the AD cutoff and got AD anyway.
 
Having seen the branching and AD selection slides earlier this year, I can give you a few guesses. Obviously we can't know exactly because the OML is no longer released, but here might be why some lower OML guys got shafted:

1) Less overall slots. A few hundred might not seem like a lot, but that will have affected the overall AD score significantly. Less overall slots will shift the OML required for AD higher.

2) PMS score inflation, LDAC deflation. This has more of an effect than some realize. With LDAC score being significantly less on the OML overall %, the PMS pre/post LDAC score is worth a lot. I forget the exact numbers, but it was absolutely huge when compared with last year. It was the single largest factor other than GPA in OML score AFAIK with the new OML model.

3) New Branch ADSO program for AD. Honestly I think this was probably THE number one factor when it came to making the OML wonky this year. I can almost guarantee you with the DABM weirdness and the overall lack of predictability with the new model, many cadets preferred to take the safer route. Many probably already had majors that fell in line with the new requirements to guarantee them AD in a support branch. This factor alone would have pushed up the average OML required to get AD massively, because it allowed mediocre to poor performance cadets to completely bypass the OML process and take AD slots that they otherwise would have had no chance of getting.

So, in review, I would say that the new system has made it almost impossible to war game whether or not you would have gotten AD or not. I do know that many cadets who would have made last year's cutoff without much problem were indeed not given AD. How much of that is the shifted weight of scores versus getting hosed by the guaranteed AD ADSO program we will never know.

In my opinion, it's a both a good and a bad thing. It's going to majorly reshape how cadets strategize getting AD and the branch they want. It will very heavily incentivize going STEM for cadets who aren't as interested in branch as much as they are going AD. But the worst part about it is it will be very, very difficult to predict how branching will turn out unless you're at the top of the game.
 
I know accessions just got released and all, but does anyone know when orders start to get released? I know it varies by branch, but a lot of winter commissionees got their BOLC dates already. Anyone know?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top