attrition

Discussion in 'Military Academy - USMA' started by humblebeginnings, Jul 28, 2017.

  1. humblebeginnings

    humblebeginnings Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2017
    Messages:
    49
    Likes Received:
    48
    Does anyone know how many NC's in the class of 2021 decided to resign or were separated from USMA? What's the normal as far as numbers? This is not meant to be a slight towards anyone. only asking out of curiosity.
     
  2. mom3boys

    mom3boys 10-Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2007
    Messages:
    2,174
    Likes Received:
    610
    It changes daily. On A day, the number of cadets will be announced. Do some math and you'll know for sure.
     
    DrMom likes this.
  3. DD2021TX

    DD2021TX Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2017
    Messages:
    49
    Likes Received:
    22
    From what I've heard I thinks it a pretty predictable # each year. 1-2%.
     
  4. USMAROTCFamily

    USMAROTCFamily 5-Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2013
    Messages:
    933
    Likes Received:
    432
    I'll be interested to hear the number, too. It just seems there are more comments on other groups about New Cadets leaving this summer during beast than in the most recent years. I suppose it could be very similar to other years, but perhaps more parents or cadets are commenting about the ones who are leaving for various reasons, which include injuries, too.
     
  5. another13mom

    another13mom 10-Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2008
    Messages:
    380
    Likes Received:
    60
    I think new cadet parents are just more aware of kids leaving because of the community created on the class parent pages, and the comfort level to share that your child is leaving and so you are/will be leaving the class page. Each year we see the same concern (i.e., seems like a higher number), but most likely it's because you're hearing it and paying attention. This news doesn't make it to the larger pages unless the parents are asking for advice/prayers from all classes.
     
  6. another13mom

    another13mom 10-Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2008
    Messages:
    380
    Likes Received:
    60
    Normal attrition will bring a class of 1200-1300 down to 900-1000 by graduation.
     
  7. SMP

    SMP Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2016
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    32
    For comparison purposes, 1,290 were admitted for the Class of 2020 and by Parent Plebe Weekend in March the class was down to 1,218.
     
  8. jl123

    jl123 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2016
    Messages:
    777
    Likes Received:
    560
    Now with turn-backs it's up to 1,275 (as of mid-June)
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2017
  9. SMP

    SMP Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2016
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    32
    Pardon my ignorance, but what are turn backs?
     
  10. LongAgoPlebe

    LongAgoPlebe 5-Year Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2010
    Messages:
    446
    Likes Received:
    490
    Turnbacks are individuals who become sick or injured during BCT and cannot complete the rest of training with that class. They're discharged, but offered either guaranteed re-admission or an expedited re-admission process for the next year to begin BCT again with the next class.
     
  11. jl123

    jl123 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2016
    Messages:
    777
    Likes Received:
    560
    In addition to those that did not complete beast, turn-backs include those from from the next higher class (in this case last year's yearlings, 2019) that did not move on with their class due to a variety of reasons - disciplinary, academic, medical, etc
     
    SMP and another13mom like this.
  12. SMP

    SMP Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2016
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    32
    Ahh, that makes sense. Thanks. Quite a few of them joined up with the Class of 2020.
     
  13. MidwestDad

    MidwestDad Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2017
    Messages:
    581
    Likes Received:
    396
    USAFA '21 is back from Jack's Valley; if forum reports are accurate 1186 completed basic vs 1198 scheduled to report on I-day.
    On our April appointee tour they stressed how they were striving to limit the attrition rate during basic; 12 cadets is only 1%.

    Not saying its soft out there . . . but sounds low.
     
  14. Cerberi

    Cerberi Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2015
    Messages:
    748
    Likes Received:
    857
    USAFA was concerned a few years ago that their BCT attrition was higher than other SA's (probably because it is simply more demanding : ) ) . There was a time that if you said you wanted to leave - you could be on a flight home that night or PDF. (1) Screening to get appointed is much better for all SAs - one of the first questions to a candidate - subtly or directly - is this for you or your parents. (2) All the SA's have pretty extensive counseling and they have made a commitment to lowering attrition i.e. - it's harder to quit (There are good reasons for this).

    It wasn't all that long ago (or maybe is was a long time ago and I refuse to admit it) that USAFA in particular admitted 1500 to yield 1000. Now attrition overall is 10-12% for the 4 years - this includes academics, medical/physical, discipline etc.
     
  15. jl123

    jl123 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2016
    Messages:
    777
    Likes Received:
    560
    It was a long, long time ago ;)

    My USMA class entered with 1,400+ and graduated 900+. I think the internet, YouTube, etc gives applicants a much better sense of what they are getting into - essentially the largest source of attrition today comes from those who don't even apply once they realize what lies ahead. We dinosaurs often walked in blindly.
     
    Cerberi likes this.
  16. Sydney C.

    Sydney C. 5-Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2013
    Messages:
    626
    Likes Received:
    820
    You got my attention on this one my friend....tongue firmly planted.

    [​IMG]
     
    NavyHoops likes this.
  17. candor

    candor Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2016
    Messages:
    70
    Likes Received:
    97
    Sorry to go a bit off topic here, but I was at an USAFA appointee tour in April, and during a briefing, they told us that starting this year at BCT, NCs would not be able to leave/quit unless there were medical issues or special circumstances. They also noted that on the candidate manual in the application portal.
     
  18. jl123

    jl123 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2016
    Messages:
    777
    Likes Received:
    560
    I don't think they can keep a new cadet from quitting, but they can stretch the out-processing quite a long time and make it more painful than just finishing the summer.:hammer:

    Not sure about the details of this, but I was told by a USNA midshipman that tried to quit that he was required to continue with training for about two weeks while paperwork was being "processed". During that time he changed his mind.

    One goal at all the academies is to prevent shortsighted decisions while under stress.
     
    humblebeginnings and sandnnw like this.
  19. another13mom

    another13mom 10-Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2008
    Messages:
    380
    Likes Received:
    60
    Class of 2017 started with just over 1200. By the Supe's brief at 3PM, it was down to 1193 because of R-day screening fails (weight/injury)(one new cadet wouldn't get out the car)(the mom posted asking for assistance). 936 graduated.