Cadet shipping on Crowley ATBs

[acpacesetter]

I realize that for cadet shipping at USMMA it must be a company with embarc provisions in place. The only company that operates ATBs and complies with embarc is Crowley. Anyone have any experience or know if it is possible to sail on an ATB for a portion of second sailing? My atr was rather vague when I asked them. Thanks.

 

[Mr2020]

I realize that for cadet shipping at USMMA it must be a company with embarc provisions in place. The only company that operates ATBs and complies with embarc is Crowley. Anyone have any experience or know if it is possible to sail on an ATB for a portion of second sailing? My atr was rather vague when I asked them. Thanks.

Seabulk does and operates 4 ATBs as well. As a cadet an ATB would not benefit you really at all compared with a tanker. I would go with a tanker. More crew to learn from since the ATBs operate with minimal crew / half the people really. Tankers are pretty plentiful but I would try to get one in the MSP (non jones act). PM me if needed I can help with getting you a tanker.

 

[KPEngineer]

Deck or Engine?

You can but it may be limiting to your ability to sit for license exams.

For deck, ATBs count as 1 for 2 time towards an unlimited tonnage license. 1 day of sea service for 2 days on board so 90 days on board only gets you 45 days towards your 360.

46 CFR 11.211(d)

Service on Articulated Tug Barges (ATBs) and Integrated Tug Barges (ITBs). Service on ATB or Dual Mode ITB units is creditable for an original deck officer endorsement or raise of grade of any deck officer endorsement. Service on an ATB or Dual Mode ITB with an aggregate tonnage of 1,600 GRT/3,000 GT or more is creditable on a two-for-one basis (2 days experience equals 1 day of creditable service) for up to 50 percent of the total service on vessels of 1,600 GRT/3,000 GT or more required for an unlimited officer endorsement. The remaining required service on vessels of more than 1,600 GRT/3,000 GT must be obtained on conventional vessels or Push Mode ITBs.

For Engine you have to consider the HP of the ATB. You need 50% of your time to be above 4,000 HP. That is small for an ATB, almost all Crowley ATBs are much higher than that.

46 CFR 11.503(b)

When an applicant for an original or raise of grade of an engineer endorsement, other than a DDE, has not obtained at least 50 percent of the required experience on vessels of 4,000 HP/3,000 kW or more, a propulsion power limitation is placed on the MMC based on the applicant's qualifying experience. The endorsement is limited to the maximum propulsion power on which at least 25 percent of the required experience was obtained, or 150 percent of the maximum propulsion power on which at least 50 percent of the service was obtained, whichever is higher. Limitations are in multiples of 1,000 HP/750 kW, using the next higher figure when an intermediate horsepower is calculated. When the limitation as calculated equals or exceeds 10,000 HP/7,500 kW, an unlimited propulsion power endorsement.

 

[KPEngnr90]

I realize that for cadet shipping at USMMA it must be a company with embarc provisions in place. The only company that operates ATBs and complies with embarc is Crowley. Anyone have any experience or know if it is possible to sail on an ATB for a portion of second sailing? My atr was rather vague when I asked them. Thanks.

Has to be Deep Sea time and a certain tonnage.

 

[kpmom2013]

You need to realize what a scramble there can be to get your sea days in. If you don't have the required days in, you cannot sit for license. If you don't take and pass your license exam you don't graduate. There is so much pressure to count the days that you don't need to add to license prep pressure by trying to make up for lost days by standing watch on the KP ship while you are trying to study for license exams. Get all the full sea days in as soon as you can, especially during your first sailing. If you want to work on a ship that does not count toward full sea days, do that as your internship for a couple weeks.

 

[acpacesetter]

You need to realize what a scramble there can be to get your sea days in. If you don't have the required days in, you cannot sit for license. If you don't take and pass your license exam you don't graduate. There is so much pressure to count the days that you don't need to add to license prep pressure by trying to make up for lost days by standing watch on the KP ship while you are trying to study for license exams. Get all the full sea days in as soon as you can, especially during your first sailing. If you want to work on a ship that does not count toward full sea days, do that as your internship for a couple weeks.

Deck or Engine?

You can but it may be limiting to your ability to sit for license exams.

For deck, ATBs count as 1 for 2 time towards an unlimited tonnage license. 1 day of sea service for 2 days on board so 90 days on board only gets you 45 days towards your 360.

46 CFR 11.211(d)

Service on Articulated Tug Barges (ATBs) and Integrated Tug Barges (ITBs). Service on ATB or Dual Mode ITB units is creditable for an original deck officer endorsement or raise of grade of any deck officer endorsement. Service on an ATB or Dual Mode ITB with an aggregate tonnage of 1,600 GRT/3,000 GT or more is creditable on a two-for-one basis (2 days experience equals 1 day of creditable service) for up to 50 percent of the total service on vessels of 1,600 GRT/3,000 GT or more required for an unlimited officer endorsement. The remaining required service on vessels of more than 1,600 GRT/3,000 GT must be obtained on conventional vessels or Push Mode ITBs.

For Engine you have to consider the HP of the ATB. You need 50% of your time to be above 4,000 HP. That is small for an ATB, almost all Crowley ATBs are much higher than that.

46 CFR 11.503(b)

When an applicant for an original or raise of grade of an engineer endorsement, other than a DDE, has not obtained at least 50 percent of the required experience on vessels of 4,000 HP/3,000 kW or more, a propulsion power limitation is placed on the MMC based on the applicant's qualifying experience. The endorsement is limited to the maximum propulsion power on which at least 25 percent of the required experience was obtained, or 150 percent of the maximum propulsion power on which at least 50 percent of the service was obtained, whichever is higher. Limitations are in multiples of 1,000 HP/750 kW, using the next higher figure when an intermediate horsepower is calculated. When the limitation as calculated equals or exceeds 10,000 HP/7,500 kW, an unlimited propulsion power endorsement.

I knew of the 1 for 2 with regard to sea days, so I was leaning more towards using it as the internship as I was told by my atr that internships can not be used to count towards sea days if you are a deck major. That claim I am not even sure is correct, but I digress. When it comes to days, I have enough where I can go just under 2 months without a ship and still get enough days to sit, so even 1 for 2 on an ATB would just be a bonus at that point. Thank you for mentioning the Seabulk ATBs, I will email them at earliest convenience. The reason I am looking at ATBs specifically is kind of multi faceted. I am aiming build a rapport with a company for post graduation, and try and get the ATB limited TOAR essentially for free without having to pay for the course after graduation. I already indicated that my goal this sea term is to get my PIC-DL regardless during my preliminary sea term meeting with shipboard training, and my atr told me they would try their best to accomodate. Hope this clears up any questions and any feedback is greatly encouraged. Thanks!

 

[JohnPAKP65]

I knew of the 1 for 2 with regard to sea days, so I was leaning more towards using it as the internship as I was told by my atr that internships can not be used to count towards sea days if you are a deck major. That claim I am not even sure is correct, but I digress.

That claim may be inadvertently correct. At an Academy/Alumni function this past Friday, it was tossed around that deck need 330 days seatime and engine 300 days. At “1 for 2” it might be difficult to acquire that 330 days.

 

[acpacesetter]

That claim may be inadvertently correct. At an Academy/Alumni function this past Friday, it was tossed around that deck need 330 days seatime and engine 300 days. At “1 for 2” it might be difficult to acquire that 330 days.

More towards the "can't accrue days while partaking in interships," not the 330. 330 is 100% set in stone and I am very aware. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

[KPEngineer]

I knew of the 1 for 2 with regard to sea days, so I was leaning more towards using it as the internship as I was told by my atr that internships can not be used to count towards sea days if you are a deck major.

An internship can't be used as sea days if you are working in the office. If the Academy allows you to count time on an ATB in excess of your 330 than yes your internship can count for sea days.

When it comes to days, I have enough where I can go just under 2 months without a ship and still get enough days to sit

If you have that many days than it would likely be the just a matter of the logistics of getting on one. I suggest when calculating your days, build a cushion in, don't go for exactly 330.

If you want to experience another segment of the maritime industry than I highly recommend it. I was C/E on an ATB and I think it is the best sailing job in the US. This was before Subchapter M came into force so things are likely a little different now but not that much depending on who you work for. The rotations are better than deep sea although the money is less but still decent. You can probably make over 100k right out of school. I worked 3 weeks on/off which for me was perfect. Just short enough to make time go fast on the boat and long enough to make time go slow at home.

 

[cmakin]

Yup. I was CE on an ATB way back in the 80s when they were a rare thing, indeed. Tough job, but great experience for a kid in his 20s.