Calc 2 opinions

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RiverwoodMama

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I know no one will have a definitive answer on a course of action for this but I’m hoping to get some seasoned opinions. DS (class of 2023) is currently taking Calc2 at a local junior college. Despite breezing through Calc1 with a high A, this current course is proving more challenging. It’s looking like he *might* squeak by with a B but a C is more likely. Professor has already invited him to continue with Calc3 in the fall.

Our USNA conundrum:
Should DS
1) continue the course (even with that C on the horizon) and then move toward calc3 like the professor is advising?
2) drop the course and retake calc2 in the fall with the hopes of earning an A?
3) some other magical answer we can’t see through all the muck?

Which route would best demonstrate his proficiency in upper level mathematics courses?
 
Think of this from two angles.

One, from an admissions standpoint. USNA likes to see candidate who challenge themselves by taking the toughest classes available, especially in STEM and English, and excelling. The fact that he’s taking a college-level course speaks to the rigor he’s facing. Even better if he raises his grace.

Two, from a proficiency standpoint. All mids must take three semesters of Calc, and it’s not easy. So it’s wise to show up with a solid foundation, as Calc will come into play in those and other required courses.
 
RiverwoodMama said:
2) drop the course and retake calc2 in the fall with the hopes of earning an A?
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Apologies for confusion -- when you say class of 2023 for DS, do you mean starting in 2023 or graduating USNA in 2023? I tend to interpret it as the latter but that wouldn't make sense in this scenario.

Provided your DS is hoping to matriculate to USNA in 2023, my suggestion is retaking calc2 in hopes of earning a higher grade. I don't have a quantitative justification for that position, just seems logical. In my opinion, vector calc (3) is harder than integral calc (2), so not only does your DS risk a lower calc2 grade, but compounding that with a lower calc3 grade as well.
 
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USNA_STEM_Prof said:
Apologies for confusion -- when you say class of 2023 for DS, do you mean starting in 2023 or graduating USNA in 2023? I tend to interpret it as the latter but that wouldn't make sense in this scenario.

Provided your DS is hoping to matriculate to USNA in 2023, my suggestion is retaking calc2 in hopes of earning a higher grade. I don't have a quantitative justification for that position, just seems logical. In my opinion, vector calc (3) is harder than integral calc (2), so not only does your DS risk a lower calc2 grade, but compounding that with a lower calc3 grade as well.
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Matriculating in 2023. He’s a current 11th grader in HS. Class of 2027 for USNA purposes. Apologies for the confusion.
 
USNA_STEM_Prof said:
Apologies for confusion -- when you say class of 2023 for DS, do you mean starting in 2023 or graduating USNA in 2023? I tend to interpret it as the latter but that wouldn't make sense in this scenario.

Provided your DS is hoping to matriculate to USNA in 2023, my suggestion is retaking calc2 in hopes of earning a higher grade. I don't have a quantitative justification for that position, just seems logical. In my opinion, vector calc (3) is harder than integral calc (2), so not only does your DS risk a lower calc2 grade, but compounding that with a lower calc3 grade as well.
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RiverwoodMama said:
Matriculating in 2023. He’s a current 11th grader in HS. Class of 2027 for USNA purposes. Apologies for the confusion.
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Was the original HS calc 1, AP and if so what did he score?- kinda makes a difference in how to view situation.
 
Frigga said:
Was the original HS calc 1, AP and if so what did he score?- kinda makes a difference in how to view situation.
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AP isn’t an option for us. Calc1 was a junior college course (Calculus1 for Engineers or something like that, can’t remember the course number). He finished it Dec 2021 (with this same professor) with a high A average.
 
RiverwoodMama said:
Matriculating in 2023. He’s a current 11th grader in HS. Class of 2027 for USNA purposes. Apologies for the confusion.
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No worries. My advice doesn't change because that's what I figured with my original response. Good luck! Those courses are tough.
 
The reason I asked is AP is very standardized across the US (curriculum is approved through college board). I thought maybe the Cal 1 was taught in your HS and something was missed. I know at my son's school last year, Covid delays, allowances, led to some curriculum shortcuts that showed up this year. I also was thinking retake to strengthen foundation before moving on. He is already way ahead of most in HS math!
 
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A lot of HS kids take AP Calc in the 10th or 11th grades these days.

A high C low B in College Calc 2 (Integral Calc) is not a bad grade. If he does well in Calc 3 vector Calc, that should show that he is progressing well.

Btw … SAT/ACT is the great equalizer. So if he does well there, the C or B grade in Calc 2 shouldn’t matter.

Your son is taking challenging courses. That matters most.
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My opinion is that your DS move forward and be exposed to more. I'm in a similar situation this year taking AP Calc BC, AP Physics C, AP Stats, and AP Chem concurrently as a junior. Math across the years has been all As. Calc BC is sitting at a C right now. It's a time issue. It's most likely going to be a source of material for an application essay. Self challenge, perseverance, growth, falling short of my goal, lessons learned, etc. From what I understand cadets and midshipmen are tested and placed accordingly before starting courses. If you were on the selection committee would you rank a candidate higher that got to Calc 1 with A's, or a candidate that finished Calc 1 with an A in addition a couple more passed Calc classes? In our situation I don't think any admissions officer can consider just gpa to tell the story.
 
Our DS didn’t have IB or AP options. Just dual credit through local community college taught on site at high school. He got A’s in the classes you mentioned.
He arrived for plebe summer and when tested for validation was able to validate calc 1 and 2. Vectors is a whole new animal and he benefited from taking them in person at the academy. He also built relationships with peers and professors.
Having a solid foundation is key in these stem courses.

It is a personal choice. I would say master the most difficult class your school offers. Show an ability to juggle a busy schedule and a rigorous STEM college schedule.
 
Just wondering: have you or your DS looked into some tutoring for Calc2? Professional tutor if its in the budget, or using school based assets if it's not.

One of the best things that happened to my DD her Jr year was a struggle with AP Chem. The problem was she'd been a Cambridge Student and the district we were in taught AP chem in the standard student body of her school. Much of the pre AP chem work she had done was just a little different than what was being taught in Std. classes.

DD was on her way to a C and didn't like the potential impact to her Ivy League aspirations. We hired a tutor recommended by her coach. DD went once or twice a week and she managed to cut a deal with her Chem Teacher that if she got an A on the State College Placement Exam for chem he'd give her an A, and she pulled it off.

The A was great for her and the tutoring helped a ton, but IMO the real win for DD was coming to the understanding that she might actually need help at something, and that a tutor taking a different approach to the same subject matter could be hugely helpful. That lesson helped DD get more out of her SAT and ACT prep courses. By the time she got to the USNA she was anxious to help her snuggling shipmates and take their help as needed. learning to recognize when you need help, how to find and use tutoring assets available, AND not letting EGO get in the way of learning material was a Hugely helpful lesson going into the USNA.

Seriously if he can learn to get help EARLY that's a big deal. The USNA is not a place where you want course work blowing by you 1/2 understood. Tons of assets available to help struggling mid but they have to be willing/proactive in accessing that help.

Good luck to your son.
 
Thought I’d post a follow-up in case it helps others later.

DS spoke with his professor who encouraged him to stay in the class. We, as parents, left the decision solely up to DS and said we’d support his decision completely. He opted to stay, worked his tail off studying, visiting office hours and anything else he could do. Went into the final exam with a comfortable (albeit undesirable) C and knowing he’d need almost a perfect score for a B. Grades came out today and DS got the B!

Would he have liked an A? For sure! Did he learn more with that B than he would have with an easy A? You bet! This was a huge lesson with a lot of take-aways for DS. He would have learned it all with a C too but I’m glad he was rewarded a little bit with that B. The experience was invaluable all the way around.

Thanks again for everyone’s input and advice.
 
RiverwoodMama said:
Thought I’d post a follow-up in case it helps others later.

DS spoke with his professor who encouraged him to stay in the class. We, as parents, left the decision solely up to DS and said we’d support his decision completely. He opted to stay, worked his tail off studying, visiting office hours and anything else he could do. Went into the final exam with a comfortable (albeit undesirable) C and knowing he’d need almost a perfect score for a B. Grades came out today and DS got the B!

Would he have liked an A? For sure! Did he learn more with that B than he would have with an easy A? You bet! This was a huge lesson with a lot of take-aways for DS. He would have learned it all with a C too but I’m glad he was rewarded a little bit with that B. The experience was invaluable all the way around.

Thanks again for everyone’s input and advice.
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A B in calc 2 is very respectable. Great work by him to pull that together. He has a potential topic to write about in his essay.
 
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Even a “C” as a HS Junior is a decent grade.

Our daughter was in Private schools through the equivalent of the 6th grade …. We put her in those schools because they don’t grade where we had her.

When she got to public Middle School and HS, we told her No “D” or “F” grades …. She graduated with a 3.4 gpa from an incredibly challenging Northern VA HS … and that gpa was Perfect as far as we were concerned. …. She got C grades in HS Chem, Physics and Calc … Perfectly fine grades to us.

She prefers Writing …. she has won many awards for her writing ability. And she is one hell of a Pianist and Cellist.

Here is the Kicker: With a Sky-High SAT score, it really doesn’t matter what your HS GPA is …. Just make sure that you have taken Chem, Physics and Calc before HS graduation, and that you also have a Lot of ECs and Sports too.
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RiverwoodMama said:
Thought I’d post a follow-up in case it helps others later.

DS spoke with his professor who encouraged him to stay in the class. We, as parents, left the decision solely up to DS and said we’d support his decision completely. He opted to stay, worked his tail off studying, visiting office hours and anything else he could do. Went into the final exam with a comfortable (albeit undesirable) C and knowing he’d need almost a perfect score for a B. Grades came out today and DS got the B!

Would he have liked an A? For sure! Did he learn more with that B than he would have with an easy A? You bet! This was a huge lesson with a lot of take-aways for DS. He would have learned it all with a C too but I’m glad he was rewarded a little bit with that B. The experience was invaluable all the way around.

Thanks again for everyone’s input and advice.
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I’m glad your son stuck through it. FYI, some MIDNs experienced that Cal 1 was the hardest at Annapolis. Cal 2 and 3 were easier. So if your son can get into USNA, then he should try to place out of Cal 1-3. If not, he’s got some training so he should do fine. It’s good to place out of classes so he can have more time to take electives during his Junior / Senior years.

In general, 1st and 3rd year are the most challenging years academically at the Naval Academy. Good luck with your application and nomination for an appointment.
 
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