Candidate Pool and Qualified Candidate?

[cadetmom]

Mike, thank you so much! That is exactly the kind of advice I was looking for. I truly appreciate the time you take to share yourself with the rest of us! I think both of my boys can benefit from your post

 

[the_yeti2351]

Yeti; just so you know, I am not in the admissions office. I am a lowly, insignificant person. Hee Hee. I am retired air force. I work with some ALO's getting local applicants ready for applying to the academy and ROTC. I have also been involved helping students apply for colleges, universities, consider active duty military, etc... I am also a parent of a current cadet. I've been closely involved with the air force academy process for quite a few years. But officially, I have about as much significance as a prairie dog on a field while hunters are sighting in their rifles. Now, FWIW, if you have some ALO type questions, the GURU of GURUs on this forum, (IMO), is Steve (Fleiger). He is the ALO extraordinaire of Arizona. He probably has more (correct) answers about the process than anyone here. I work continuously with a number of ALO's, but I'm not an ALO.

But Falconchick and Pima answered your question about the difference between a candidate and a qualified candidate. There are 3 basic phases in applying to the academy. You start off as a "Prospect". You basically started the process. You then move up to being an "Applicant". Means you've started actually applying. You are filling out the requirements for your application. When the academy determines that you are competitive, or you receive a nomination, you become a "Candidate". This is sometimes very misleading for Brats (Military Children) because they apply for their presidential nomination usually in the beginning of the process; around july/august. If they get the nomination; which most are entitled to; they become "Candidates" because they received a nomination. Remember, a nomination doesn't automatically get you an appointment. There is an average of 550 presidential nominations given out each year, yet only 100 can actually be used for an appointment. Just like your MOC can give out a slate of 10 nominations. But there is no way in the world they can get all 10 an appointment.

So, if the academy considers you competitive or you've received a nomination, you become a candidate. To be a "Qualified" candidate, means you mean ALL the minimum standards for the academy. Minimum gpa, sat/act scores, CFA scores, DODMRB, etc... Mind you, some of these, like CFA are subjective and at the academies discretion. But in a nutshell, you have to be "Qualified" in order to be a "Qualified Candidate". Hope that explains it. Good luck. Mike....

Ok thank you very much

 

[Pima]

Mike I should have said JUST to become a pilot!

You go to become an officer, becoming a pilot is a perk.

We too have seen people leave way before he 20 yr mark. We always respected their decision, because you must do what it good for you.

There is absolutely nothing wrong leaving after fulfilling your commitment, it is only when you try to "tweak" it that I get perturbed at!

 

[Freeman]

You are hugely correct...

I really doubt that half of a current year's academy class all went to summer seminar. There are now 3 summer seminar sessions at air force, but I'm not sure if that means more people attending or less people in each session and basically the same amount of people. When my son went to summer seminar for Air Force; 2007, there were 2 sessions with about 350 attendees each session. So, if ALL 700 summer seminar attendees made it to getting an appointment, that would be pretty much exactly 50% of the class. However; the SS is so far before the application process and nomination process, that there's no way that they can all get an appointment. They don't look through nearly any of the things for accepting to SS that they do for an appointment. Plus the fact of all those who realize at SS that the academy isn't for them. I don't know the exact number/percentage each year. But I would say that probably 1/2 of SS attendees get an appointment, which would be about 25% of the entering class.

As for for what Pima said; I agree 100%. An applicant shouldn't be choosing one academy over another simply because of perceived academics. They should be choosing the academy that is the branch of service that they ultimately WANT to serve in. Then again, I'm also the type that isn't too fond of people who apply to the academy with the SOLE PURPOSE of doing a "5 and Dive". I'm not saying that every cadet needs to spend 20 years in the military. But I don't think that the individual should already have 9-10 years from now already figured out. They should be going in with the attitude of WANTING to serve their country. NOT only doing it for the education. And realistically setting themselves goals when they are in their 3rd year of the academy whether they want to apply for a job that requires 10+ years in the military; e.g. pilot, med school, etc... Or, do a job that gets them into the military, start your career, then determine at some point if it's something you want to continue to do after 5 years or not. But sorry; to ALREADY KNOW that you are doing a 5 and Dive, and that that your service is simply "Payback" for the 4 year education..... Well, let's just say, I don't have much respect for that.

And I do think that Brats (Military Children) are a little more prepared for the academy that non-military children. Not in the "What" to expect. But in the "Attitude". In the "What" to expect, too many people think that Boy Scouts, CAP, JrROTC, etc... all "PREPARE" you better for the academy. Sorry, they don't. Matter of fact, sometimes they are actually a hindrance to you because of "Preconceived" ideas. I think the Brat has a more realistic perception of the academy and of military life in general. Many, (Not all) with no military experience at all, usually have no idea why or what they are doing. This can be very frustrating. It can also create a lot of stress. Some adapt, some don't. Then there's some with the CAP, JrROTC, Boy Scouts, etc... experience. Many, (Not All), think they understand what they are doing and WHY they are doing it. However, their previous training wasn't mandatory. They could literally just not show up and quit. Didn't need permission or anything. So the attitude is different. Plus, many think that because they "Think" they already know "What and Why", that it's also frustrating when they are being treated like a child, or sub-human as some would say. It's not like their ROTC, CAP, or Boy Scout meetings or training. Physically it's similar, mentally, it's much different.

Then there's the BRAT. The difference between the brat and the CAP, Boy Scout, JrROTC, etc... is that those others are a part time activity. It's a class during the day; or a meeting on Wednesday nights, etc... As a Brat, these individuals lived this way for 17-18 years. EVERY DAY!!! As a military member, you didn't come home and turn OFF the military. I didn't raise my son and daughter the same way that my Non-Military neighbors raised their kids. Yes, we are all different, but the military definitely had an influence on how as a parent I raised my kid. One example: When I told my children to do something, they were NOT ALLOWED to ask why... INITIALLY!!! They were to just do what I said. THEN, afterwards, if they didn't understand why they had to do what I told them, they were encouraged to ask me why. We would chat and I'd tell them WHY I had them do something. But asking WHY at the time I wanted you to do it, is NOT AN OPTION. That is very military. At least the military I was in for 20+ years. You don't have time to ask WHY when given an order. You can ask why AFTER, and learn from it. But there is a time for every purpose under heaven. And at the time of being told what to do, was NOT the time to ask why. "Unless of course you truly believed that it was unsafe, immoral, or illegal. The Brat grew up with much of this attitude their whole life. The non-military experience person might have the attitude at the academy of "What/Why am I doing". The ones who THINK they are prepared, have the attitude of "I KNOW What/why I am doing". Even though they may not necessarily. The Brat's attitude is more like; "Ah crap, here we go again". Not in a "Negative" manner. But in the "I am definitely use to this environment".

The best real story I can give was during doolie for a day in Summer Seminar. The cadets were in the faces of the summer seminar attendees. Giving them hell. Some attendees were definitely being affected. Some had a very high stress level. My son just stood there with the cadet in his face. Not smiling. Not smirking. Not doing anything wrong. The cadet asked: Doesn't this bother you? Doesn't this upset you? My son simply said; "No Sir". The cadet got louder. Why doesn't my yelling and screaming bother you??? My son simply said: "You don't know my father". The cadet asked: What does your father do? My son said, he recently retired from the air force. The cadet said: "Oh"... And walked to the next attendee and got in his butt. Point is, Summer Seminar, the Academy, and the Military, is all about attitude. Having the right attitude. Not the attitude of "I already know this, I'm already prepared for this, I can do any of this". No, the right attitude is to know that the person OVER YOU, does care about your welfare. They aren't there to harm you. That they really do want you to succeed. That everything you are going through has a purpose. That you don't have to know the purpose right now. You can find out the purpose later. That if you TRUST those above you, you will learn and become a better person. Best of luck to everyone. Sorry for the damn book. I've tried a lot recently not to post too much. Guess I couldn't help myself. later... mike.....

I'm in both AFJROTC and CAP, and attended USAFASSB. The two largely don't do a thing to help. Most everyone from both my squadrons would totally fail, and several other junior cadets at the ss performed terribly. But it does help for some, if you do it right and you have good instructors. What they did to us at the academy would be called hazing my JROTC/CAP standards. My instructor had been instructing for 20+ years and is a CMSgt. He turned a blind eye to "hazing" so long as it wasn't true abuse, and as such I actually was accustomed to a similar situation, but, as you said, for shorter periods of time. Summer Leadership School for JROTC also got me acquainted with busting it from 5 in the morning to 10-11 or later at night. My element leader directly told me I did GREAT. A certain senior yelled at me on doolie for a day and later, after we finished, came and told me it was because he liked me. My element leader later said that he happened to be one of the highest ranked and most reputed cadets at the academy, and was the best at everything. She said he is difficult to give compliments, so when he does, it means a lot. He had told her that, of all "wannabes" he'd ever seen, I was the best.

I agree JROTC and CAP are hugely useless, almost no help at all most of the time, but It can, and, if you let it, DOES make a difference.

PTing with the local marines helped to. A Gunny is a scary man, or woman.

Also, they said there were about 3400 applicants to the seminar that year, and 1100 of us were accepted. One of the senior cadets I met said the previous few years have had a 90%+ acceptance rate, but here's the catch: First day, we were asked who made up their mind that they were definitely attending USAFA, All but maybe 5 of 350 or so hands went up. At the end of doolie for a day, less than a hundred hands were raised. That's why there is such a high acceptance rate, I think, for some reason, just that little bit of watered down difficulty is unappealing to most people, so it's not that such a high number of attendees get in, it's that of those few who still apply, a huge number get in.

 

[Freeman]

As one of my commanders at the USAFA Seminar said. Run. Just Run, don't do push-ups, just run, and when your tired of running....go run some more. When you pass out you can stop, until your conscious again, then you should start running."