CBS vs USAFA

fencersmother

10-Year Member
Founding Member
So, happened to tune into regular broadcast CBS morning show this week, where the favored topic of the year, sexual assault, was being investigated at USAFA. To my mind, it was kind of a hit-piece.

One of the females who claimed assault admitted to under-aged drinking with other cadets (duh, how stupid is that?!), another said she was "assaulted" but not raped, not molested - kissed when she didn't want to be. One of the ladies claimed she was assaulted in her CAR, then decided to leave USAFA. That's the one that really got my radar going. So, to own a car, one is a 2* or better, which means she would have gone to commitment. One doesn't just quit - tho this gal claimed she had. Frankly, it was her account that made me doubt the whole CBS story.

I don't know the truth of the matter - never will. But I don't trust MSM - at all, ever- and I am suspicious of their motives, and of the facts.

Never condoning sexual assault - just now wondering how much is true - why it comes out NOW.

OK, rant over.
 

kinnem

Moderator
5-Year Member
I never saw the story and know absolutely no details. I too, never condone sexual assault, or plain old assault for that matter. But some of this stuff has gotten out of hand. If all that happened to one gal was she was kissed when she didn't want to be, then I have trouble with calling that sexual assault. I'm sure that's not the first time this has happened in the history of mankind... especially among adolescents and young adults. Some parts of life one just has to deal with.

I feel so un-PC making this post, nevertheless....
 

QA1517

5-Year Member
Sexual assault, sexual harassment, improper behavior.

All seam to be interchangeable terms in the media today.

If I lean in to kiss a girl on a date and she decides she didn't want to be, even after the fact, I could be guilty of any of the above according to the standards being set forth today. Even if you ask first it can be called about anything. I look back at being young and went by the "you won't know if you don't try" philosophy. Can't do that these days.
 

jl123

Member
It seems that in the interest of political gain the lines between sexual assault, boorish behavior, and simple misunderstanding have been blurred. It is a disservice to those actuality suffering assault that media, politicians, and special interests encourage a "pile on" of questionable claims that divert attention from legitimate ones.
 

THParent

Member
What concerns me these days is the allegations being levied when they aren't true.

My only story on this is a friend of mine is a store manager who had a woman approach him with a "groping" allegation against another employee. He took it very seriously and gave her a form to fill out with all the facts including date and time of the alleged incident. She did that - and was very detailed in her memory of the event - and signed and dated the form. He asked her after she filled out the form if the date (the Wednesday of the prior week) was correct, and she replied "Yes, I'll remember that day forever, it was definitely Wednesday!".

So he turned it in to the Corporate head of HR along with the records that the alleged groper had been working all day in another store, 350 miles away, on the day in question.
So obviously she was lying. Will she lose her job? He doesn't think so.

Had the guy actually been in the store that day - he would have lost his job - merely because of this false allegation.

Now don't get me wrong - I am a man - and I know first-hand that a lot of men are disgusting pigs. I don't associate with those types, so all of my friends are the opposite.
In my microcosm, all the men I know are decent and honorable toward everyone.

The problem I see now is that there is a tremendous amount of power being wielded right now by mere allegations. These allegations often ruin lives.
The whole country needs to remember the rights that are afforded all citizens under the 6th Amendment, before rushing to judgement and ruining reputations.
 

QA1517

5-Year Member
I have to admit, all the allegations coming out and people jumping on the band wagon had led me to be much more careful about the way I act or talk.

I work in a small construction company with only 3 or 4 females in the office. We like to think we are the same as family, but I shy away from any off colored jokes or language these days. I'm also a touchy person, a hand on the shoulder or back is just something I grew up doing, even commenting on how nice someone looks that day. My behavior has changed, possibly made me less personable to some.
And I hate to say this but it has also changed the way I look at hiring a female for certain positions, not because of my own behavior but because I cannot afford to put in situations that could put the company at risk because of the behavior of other people.

I have a feeling this movement that some call empowering might have adverse effects.

True sexual assault or abuse should be reported to the police. It should not be distributed via social media or main stream media.
 

USAFA10s

USAFA Class of 2012 Kirtland, AFB
10-Year Member
So I wrote a long angry post and decided to delete it since emotional angry posts are usually counterproductive so, after watching what of these reports is available online, here is my slightly more logical and even-tempered (although still long) version.

I'll start by saying I think the CBS reporting is missing a key element of this story. Specifically, they don't discuss the mismanagement of the SAPR office, rather they give the person responsible (Teresa Beasley) the stage (see this article). I was at USAFA in her early years, and as a junior had to deal with the case of two freshman girls in my squadron who were assaulted in their dorm rooms. Let's just say I was less than impressed with the SAPR office. So, my point here is that I agree the CBS story is missing some information and definitely has an angle, however, the fact that they gave General Silveria the chance to respond both in print online and on CBS gains them a few points.

So, happened to tune into regular broadcast CBS morning show this week, where the favored topic of the year, sexual assault, was being investigated at USAFA. To my mind, it was kind of a hit-piece.

One of the females who claimed assault admitted to under-aged drinking with other cadets (duh, how stupid is that?!), another said she was "assaulted" but not raped, not molested - kissed when she didn't want to be. One of the ladies claimed she was assaulted in her CAR, then decided to leave USAFA. That's the one that really got my radar going. So, to own a car, one is a 2* or better, which means she would have gone to commitment. One doesn't just quit - tho this gal claimed she had. Frankly, it was her account that made me doubt the whole CBS story.

I don't know the truth of the matter - never will. But I don't trust MSM - at all, ever- and I am suspicious of their motives, and of the facts.

Never condoning sexual assault - just now wondering how much is true - why it comes out NOW.

OK, rant over.
Ok, so while I personally don't even drink and agree that it is pretty darn stupid to drink underage at USAFA, it is actually (and unfortunately) quite common. If anything this gives MORE credibility to her account, because no one WANTS to admit to underage drinking, especially not at USAFA. The attitude that the story isn't true or it is somehow her fault because there was alcohol involved is a big problem. Fencermom, would your opinion of this example change if this were a party of firsties and two degrees and the woman assaulted was 21? As for the car, to clear things up, 2* can have cars, 3* become 2* at graduation, commitment is the FIRST DAY OF CLASS 2* year, therefore there is an entire summer before commitment when a 2* can own a car.

I never saw the story and know absolutely no details. I too, never condone sexual assault, or plain old assault for that matter. But some of this stuff has gotten out of hand. If all that happened to one gal was she was kissed when she didn't want to be, then I have trouble with calling that sexual assault. I'm sure that's not the first time this has happened in the history of mankind... especially among adolescents and young adults. Some parts of life one just has to deal with.

I feel so un-PC making this post, nevertheless....
Sexual assault, sexual harassment, improper behavior.

All seam to be interchangeable terms in the media today.

If I lean in to kiss a girl on a date and she decides she didn't want to be, even after the fact, I could be guilty of any of the above according to the standards being set forth today. Even if you ask first it can be called about anything. I look back at being young and went by the "you won't know if you don't try" philosophy. Can't do that these days.
I didn't see this part of the story, however, there is kissed when she didn't want to be (which I would interpret as a case of mixed signals as described above) and forced kissing, as in, it is clear I don't want to be kissed but the guy grabs my head and does it anyway. The latter is DEFINITELY sexual assault. Just wanted to make sure there wasn't any confusion on that matter.

To close, for anyone who still thinks our country does not have a SERIOUS sexual harassment and assault problem and that all the stories popping up are just people "hopping on the bandwagon," you are missing the point. It is a widespread and systemic problem. This thread is an excellent example of why women DON'T report, it often does not go well, the most common problem being believability. Why is it that a sexual misconduct allegation is seen with so much more suspicion than other crimes?
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/false-sexual-violence-assault-rape-allegations-truth-rare-international-day-for-the-elimination-of-a8077876.html

It seems you all agree that Women have a right to feel safe at work and that sexual harassment and assault are not ok. Be part of the solution (I figure this might get some lurkers so why not):

For everyone:
I recommend this article (I know it's CNN, but give it a chance, if you really disagree with what it says, message me. I'm busy, but for this, I will make time)
http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/21/opinions/what-men-can-do-me-too-stamp-opinion/index.html

For employers/managers/those with power at work:
The main point is to have a clear zero-tolerance policy and follow it - see these articles
http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/21/opinions/what-men-can-do-me-too-stamp-opinion/index.html
https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/80140

#MeToo
 

raimius

10-Year Member
Why is it that a sexual misconduct allegation is seen with so much more suspicion than other crimes?
Much of the problem with solving cases is that there is often little conclusive evidence. It gets even more complicated when the parties involved had a relationship prior to the incident, or when both were intoxicated.
Many times there simply is not enough information to prove "beyond a reasonable doubt" without simply trusting one person's story.

Further, cases of the spiteful ex rather poison the well for true victims' credibility. I've seen people spend thousands in lawyers and court fees to get fabricated revenge charges dropped (a non sex-related charge, but an ugly divorce).
 

USAFA10s

USAFA Class of 2012 Kirtland, AFB
10-Year Member
Much of the problem with solving cases is that there is often little conclusive evidence. It gets even more complicated when the parties involved had a relationship prior to the incident, or when both were intoxicated.
Many times there simply is not enough information to prove "beyond a reasonable doubt" without simply trusting one person's story.

Further, cases of the spiteful ex rather poison the well for true victims' credibility. I've seen people spend thousands in lawyers and court fees to get fabricated revenge charges dropped (a non sex-related charge, but an ugly divorce).
There is a difference between there not being enough evidence for anything to happen and a victim not being believed. They are tough cases, I agree, the problem is when the assumption is that the victim is lying. If you say you were robbed, the response is not "oh but you were drinking", it is a hunt for evidence, if none is found, that's tough luck. All I want is the same level of trust in reporting these crimes. Nothing boils my blood more than someone who makes up a story for revenge, they set us all back, but it is just not as common as everyone seems to think.
 

jl123

Member
Look up “tea consent.” Yes, it does oversimplify the issue, but it gets a point across.
Great video. Instructive in a humorous and non-confrontational manner. Every young male would benefit by learning tea etiquette.

They should make a similar tutorial for young women to educate them that it is not a crime for a man to offer tea and how to clearly and politely decline tea.
 

Skipper07

Member
Great video. Instructive in a humorous and non-confrontational manner. Every young male would benefit by learning tea etiquette.

They should make a similar tutorial for young women to educate them that it is not a crime for a man to offer tea and how to clearly and politely decline tea.
My brother’s college actually showed it to all of the incoming freshman during orientation. I think there is a longer version somewhere that explains the second part.
 
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