CFA Feedback Please, Pass?

Discussion in 'Air Force Academy - USAFA' started by Dadx4, Aug 11, 2017.

  1. Dadx4

    Dadx4 Member

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    DS stats today

    75 situps
    74 pushups
    15 pull-ups
    9.1 shuttle
    64 ft bball
    5:57 mile

    Pass?
     
  2. Wishful

    Wishful "Land of the free, because of the brave..."

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    I am a non-military parent but bball score appears to me to be a fail. I am looking at mathematically & it's around 62%( 64 score with 102 the max) It's not even at the female max. If you fail one component, you fail the CFA. This score has to be increased, by a lot. The throw can be dramatically improved by practice as it's as much as technique as strength. Since his push-ups & pull-ups are near max, strength isn't the issue. YouTube videos on throw are available. Shuttle is also not at female max. Shuttle puts lateral strain on knees so I am OK with score & wouldn't want to put anymore strain on knees then necessary. Just continue the regimen. Continuing to run will bring mile time down as well. Prior posts have stressed alternating training between sprints & runs. When is the last day to submit scores? It used to be in January, but not sure.

    He most likely has shown consistent improvement with training from the start until now; If he would continue his workouts, with a concentration on the above mentioned areas, I would love to see his scores in a month, or 2 or 3. I want 30' more on throw & 20" off on mile!! He can get there if he sees himself doing it. Maybe charting daily (or every other day) progress. He can do it. Best of luck!!
     
  3. USAFA10s

    USAFA10s USAFA Class of 2012 WPAFB 5-Year Member

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    Check out the USAFA admissions site, it has max and goal scores
    https://www.academyadmissions.com/admissions/the-application-process/fitness-assessment/

    Here are the max/goal scores for those who don't like links:
    95/81 situps
    75/62 pushups
    18/12 pull-ups
    7.8/8.1 shuttle
    102/69 ft bball
    5:20/6:29 mile

    So looks like pushups, pull-ups and the mile are all solid with situps and bball a little low and I'd say the shuttle is the area that needs the most work. The bball and shuttle scores can easily be improved with some improvements in technique rather than just strength. For the bball throw, here is a link to a good thread https://www.serviceacademyforums.com/index.php?threads/basket-ball-throw.33373/

    For the shuttle, improving turning speed will really help get that time down. Remember you only need one foot and hand to touch or pass the turn around line (simultaneously) so practicing turning so that you can rapidly decelerate at exactly the right time to run the minimum distance required will really lower your score.
     
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  4. Dadx4

    Dadx4 Member

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    Thanks for the feedback. Definitely not submitting these.
     
  5. Cerberi

    Cerberi Member

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    Submit them - no one here knows if these scores are passing. If USAFA allows re-takes (they certainly used to), there is no penalty for submitting a 'poor' test and a better one later.

    There is a lot of speculation that USAFA doesn't put much weight on the basketball throw. I have yet to meet anyone associated with USAFA or USNA that thinks it is anything but tradition.

    While someone has done the math that convinces them your DS' basketball throw is failing - they do not know. If it is passing - your DS will have a passing score on the CFA and should something happen to prevent a timely re-test - it will be a box completed.

    The areas USAFA presumably cares about - they continue to test the next 4 years - push-ups, sit-ups, pull-ups, the 600 yard run replaces the shuttle and the 1.5 mile run (vs the mile for the CFA). USAFA's PFT also includes a standing broad jump and the 1.5 mile run is a completely separate activity.

    I can almost see 2 candidates being so close in rating that the Admissions Board actually looks at push-ups of Candidate A vs Candidate B (almost). There is no way the decision comes down to the basketball throw.

    If USAFA allows re-testing (and remember if they continue to do so - it is not super-scoring), let them tell you this is a fail. I would also argue the CFA is not a stand alone item, if your DS is very active and successful in sports, a 'lower' CFA score isn't a red flag if balanced out by being All State in a sport.

    And as USAFA 10 pointed out - there is a lot of technique to the shuttle run and the basketball throw that can greatly improve scores.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2017
  6. Dadx4

    Dadx4 Member

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    Thanks Cerberi, isnt there a risk they could close his file if he fails?
     
  7. Billberna

    Billberna Member

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    From the Instructions to Candidates, page 8: "If you fail the first CFA, you will automatically be rescheduled for a second CFA. Please note that failure of the first CFA will be taken into account when your file is reviewed. If you fail the second CFA your file will be closed."
     
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  8. Cerberi

    Cerberi Member

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    I don't sit on the Admissions Board and I certainly don't know what the entire package looks like. He potentially struggled in one area of a 6 part test. From everything I have seen/read/heard a basketball throw that is 'failing' would get him a notice that he 'failed' and needs to re-take.

    Verify that USAFA allows re-takes. If the entirety of his package is solid - USAFA will not close his application for an area they don't care about with six months remaining to improve it. If he had done 3 pull-ups 23 push-ups, 40 sit-ups then maybe but not with respectable scores in all areas except the basketball throw. There are 2 times in his entire USAFA/USAF experience he will throw a basketball for USAFA - both throws are at the start of the CFA. He will run, do push-ups, pull-ups and run some more for at least 4 more years, but never again throw the basketball for a USAFA score
     
  9. Dadx4

    Dadx4 Member

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    Interesting observations and viewpoint, thanks Cerberi. He has a solid package. We're going to submit and hope for the best. If portal closes then it wasn't meant to be. He had similar scores at SLE and passed. I know it's a different standard though.
     
  10. Billberna

    Billberna Member

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    Dadx4, did you see my comment above? I quoted from Instructions to Candidates. They aren't going to close his file based on only one CFA failure, but they will close it after two failures.
     
  11. Dadx4

    Dadx4 Member

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    Thanks Billberna, I saw it. The instruction also says if he fails the first one it will be held against him in his review. I really don't know what to recommend to him. I think we'll just send it.
     
  12. Wishful

    Wishful "Land of the free, because of the brave..."

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    Why the rush?? What is the deadline?
     
  13. USAFA10s

    USAFA10s USAFA Class of 2012 WPAFB 5-Year Member

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    Unless I am mistaken, you can submit any official set of scores (where the test was administered according to the instructions), so what you submit doesn't have to be the most recent test. Unless the instructions say otherwise and things have changed, I would hold on to this score and try to improve to the goal scores. He isn't far off on the situps and the bball and shuttle might be easy to improve if he improves his form. You have this one so you are covered if he gets hurt, so I would work on form, practice a few more times, and try again.
     
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  14. Billberna

    Billberna Member

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    Unfortunately, Dadx4 has to decide now. They have a rule: test administrator has to "enter the scores online within 48 hours of the test". So you can't sit on the results, retest, and send the best of the two tests.
     
  15. Dadx4

    Dadx4 Member

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    I guess a part of him/us is hoping for that early appointment from presidential nom. Probably unrealistic. He really wants USAFA. SS convinced him.
     
  16. Dadx4

    Dadx4 Member

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    That's my understanding too.
     
  17. USAFA10s

    USAFA10s USAFA Class of 2012 WPAFB 5-Year Member

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    Ah, that is a change. If he has gotten similar scores in the past and thinks he isn't likely to improve, then I'd say go ahead and submit. If he thinks it didn't go that well and he can do better with practice, waiting might be a good idea. I don't think those are failing scores though (I am not on admissions, but like others have said, the shuttle and BBall throw aren't ever done again, and as such are probably less important).
     
  18. Dadx4

    Dadx4 Member

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    Thanks USAFA10s.
     
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  19. pstine

    pstine Member

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    IMHO I think the "minimum" scores are lower than all these, but passing/beating the minimums isn't necessarily enough to receive an appointment. Remember that the CFA is only 10% of your weighted candidate score. Bball could use a little, but the shuttle run is really the biggest section that is lacking from those scores. overall not bad tho, no reason to not submit
     
  20. HuskyPilot

    HuskyPilot Member

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    I have no idea what a "pass" is. The test is simply to demonstrate your level of fitness and probability for physically completing the physical and athletic requirements of a cadet. Read the CFA purpose statement. As a cadet parent I can tell you that these are not bad scores. Clearly you demonstrate a significant level of fitness, upper body strength, core strength and aerobic capacity with these scores if completed per the CFA instructions/guidelines. Your improvement is likely based on simple changes in technique and experienced admission staff certainly recognize this factor as well. Your proctor has 48 hrs to enter test results once given for the results to be counted/valid. I would not recommend seeking the perfect score and delaying your application all things considered in case you are injured and can't take the CFA. The CFA instructions simply state you should STRIVE to meet or exceed the maximum performance standards. It is not a requirement. Take a look at the web guy photos for recent class BCT pictures and tell me every cadet did this good or better on their CFA :) You'll clearly see cadets that appear to be struggling with weight and fitness issues. Always strive to do your absolute best but also recognize and balance what is important and wise.
     
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