Common Question regarding Summer Seminar acceptance

"diversity" comments

Flieger83:

I respectfully disagree with your reprimand of Miiikey for his "white male" comment. You sum up your post by stating "Let's leave the comments about background/race/etc., out of an excellent discussion, okay?" This shows a clear double standard. There are multiple posts by members of racial minorities asking about potential favorable treatment and none of these posters have ever been reprimanded or threatened with censure. Most recently one prospective applicant stated "I am Hispanic and Italian" and then asked about special treatment for the Hispanic ethnic group. The moderator did not comment on this post even though it clearly violated your purported rule of leaving out comments about "background/race/ etc."

This website is a "public forum" under the law and the First Amendment protects all individuals posting here. To have a government representative threaten censure comes very close to a First Amendment violation. In our country we must respect all speech whether we like it or not. The forum could make a rule completely prohibiting all mention of race or ethnicity as you infer but that is clearly not the case because members of ethnic and racial minorities are often allowed to reference their background without the threat of censure. But as soon as a white male references his background he is reprimanded.

On the substantive issue, the AFA clearly cares about race and ethnicity. The very first question on the summer seminar application (after name and DOB) inquires about the applicants race and ethnic background. This question comes even before citizenship and SAT scores. There are no questions about economic hardship or medical hardship as you reference in your post.

Our government has clearly decided that racial minorities, and at least one ethnic minority, (Hispanics) are going to be given a preference in hiring and academy admissions. At the moment this is perfectly legal and many Americans support this policy. If this was not the case, there would be no reason to inquire about an applicants race or ethnicity. The Supreme Court has recently granted certiorari and agreed to address this issue once again so this policy may change before the end of this year.

This is a valid and timely issue that effects all applicants and it is a perfectly acceptable topic for discussion among college applicants and their parents. This discussion should be done in a respectful and appropriate manner but forbidding any discussion of racial issues is unnecessary and may even be violative of the law if it is not enforced uniformly for all groups.

Thank you.
 
Fred,

Perhaps you misunderstood my comment, or I didn't explain it clearly enough (shame on me), but you're not correct in the "double standard" comment.

There's no issue asking about "any special consideration, etc.," for an individual's minority status, etc. And that's nothing we'd be concerned about here on the forum. What we are concerned about are comments/statements, etc., that can be read/construed/interpreted as racially offensive. We don't allow that as it's completely divisive and really has no place in this forum. I thought I explained that clearly in my comment to the post.

Your comment: "This website is a "public forum" under the law and the First Amendment protects all individuals posting here. To have a government representative threaten censure comes very close to a First Amendment violation. while reading on the surface as correct, is not. This is a "public" forum in the sense that The Forum/Website owner (not a governmental agency, but rather, a private citizen), has it "open" to anyone that registers.

However it is a "by request" forum. The person wishing to be a member must request membership and then MUST agree to the rules of conduct which clearly state that comments that may be read/construed/understood to be, among other things, "racially offensive" are not allowed and their use subjects the writer to sanctions, up to and including expulsion (we use the term BANNING) from the site. ALL members must agree to this BEFORE they join. As you joined this morning, you had to agree to that. To remind you and others of what they signed:

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That being said, there's no issue about Constitutional rights re: speech. Also, this is NOT a government site; there is NO government official working for this forum, or commenting "ON BEHALF OF THE GOVERNMENT" in any capacity. Those of us that are moderators and also hold any position as such, make it clear at the beginning that we're simply members here, and not working with/for the site in any official government capacity. We're here to help clarify a difficult process and to be of assistance in any way we can. As an ALO with over 17 years service and over 30 years in uniform, I am very "up to date" on the admission process at USAFA and I try to pass that knowledge on to folks in these forums.

Regarding Miiikey; he and I have had several offline conversations about his post. He and I are happy with those conversations and I felt nothing further was needed other than our "chat." I was, frankly, highly impressed by his response to my initial query; he was far more mature than I thought he might be. We had a great "chat" via private message!! And I didn't delete his post because it raised a "teachable moment" for folks and the overall discussion is an excellent one. My goal was to ensure we didn't go down a path that would have led to this topic being closed.

Your fourth paragraph bothers me a bit. I'll take it a bit farther though; yes, you're correct, USAFA does "care" about race/ethnicity. ALL of the DOD does because of decisions, affected by the courts and other folks (including the DOD, Sec'y of Defense, Sec'y of the AF, etc.) that the services should, as closely as they are able, mirror USA society. So yes, we do try to have a class of cadets enter that reflects USA society as best we can.

Your comment: Our government has clearly decided that racial minorities, and at least one ethnic minority, (Hispanics) are going to be given a preference in hiring and academy admissions. is, from my knowledge, incorrect. I have worked with and in the "admissions directorate" as an ALO for over 17 years...I have NOT seen this as a "rule" or a "written directive" as your comment could imply. Does the academy look at the "minority/non-minority status" of a candidate? Yes, just like any other college/corporation, etc. Some of it is due to federal reporting rules, the other for all the reasons that have been cited over the years on these forums. But your implication is that in all cases, if a minority member (here, specifically, you mention Hispanic) is competing with a non-Hispanic, they will receive the appointment, is simply wrong. Else we'd have a class of nothing but Hispanics or the vast majority of such. And if you review the demographics of the classes that enter the Academy, Air Force or otherwise, you'll see they closely mirror the USA population. Which is the goal.

While I am not an attorney, I do follow current legal events. The case to which you allude (...The supreme court recently issued certiorari...) is "Fisher v. University of Texas at Austin." And you're correct, their decision in that case could impact ALL college/university/higher education methods of selection, use of ethnicity/racial/demographic information.

I appreciate your concern, I truly do; I'm not just saying that! Differing opinions are valuable; they make me "re-look" at what I've said, done, thought, to see if I've gone off-track or ??? I don't think I have here but the fact that you are concerned means I might have done a better job in explaining.

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83
 
from the AFA Diversity Office, the USAFA Diversity Plan:

http://www.usafa.edu/superintendent/diversityoffice/links/AFD-110316-012.pdf

it isn't just about race, ethnicity or gender...........

Mission Statement of the AFA Diversity Office: "The goal is for cadets to live amongst many others with dissimilar backgrounds which will then compel them to examine their personal assumptions and philosophies in contrast to those of others."
 
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