10-Year Member
5-Year Member
Jan 11, 2008
Here are his stats. Does he stand a chance?

Currently has one nom
CFA is OK (no pullup, everything else is good with a 6:15 mile)
SAT 680 M 620 E
ACT 31 M 21 E (29 Composite, 35 Science)
top 20 % in very competitive HS
Eagle Scout
Class Officer
Varsity Track, Cross Country
Band, Choir
Elected to city Teen Board

Writing/English (obviously) is not his strong point, but we're hoping his Math/Science scores will help.
On paper he looks better than my kid--and my kid has an appointment sitting on the mantle! :thumb:
I am not sure but the absence of a pullup for a male may hurt him.
Have him talk to his BGO and see if he needs to retake the CFA and get that pull up.

It is very difficult to give an honest evaluation by "stats" alone. His SAT's are good scores - what about high school academice schedule? I assume he has taken high level math and science classes. The academies look for the scholar/athlete/leader model and your son appears to bring those three qualities to the table.
Forge ahead in earnest!

He should be able to get excellent feedback on his package from the CGO or is BGO - he should not be afraid to "touch base" at this point.
Good luck!
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Yeah, I forgot about the pullup...does that mean the CFA is failed? You might want to check on that...and practice pullups!
...does that mean the CFA is failed?

Don't know if a pull up is required for USNA -
Perhaps a BGO can jump in and offer up an intelligent opinion......
Are pullups no longer required as a standard part of the SA application? :confused:

We had to do at least three back in my day...
I meant in order to pass the CFA - they academies do not publish criteria to achieve a passing score on the CFA. This is the CFA "mystique".
I also don't know if each section must be passed or if they calculate a composite score for the entire test which then must be passed. In other words if a poor or failing score on one of the sections can be made up by doing exceptional on another section.

I assume if a candidate is qualified in every other way except for a deficient CGA the candidate will be given an opportunity to take it again. This is often the case at West Point, not sure at USNA.
No, each individual section must be passed. When I was up at west point, they'd hand you a sheet with your stats on the CFA at the end of the week and tell you which sections you'd passed and which you hadn't. Have him work out his back muscles by doing excercises like rows, upright rows, lat pulldowns, and reverse flys. Cap the workout off with 20 pullups (he can do one set of 20 or 20 sets of one, whatever it takes for him to do them. If he can't do all of them have him cross his legs behind himself and have someone hold them up for him to complete the repetitions.) Have him do about three sets of eight reps twice a week for a month and he'll definitely be able to do more pullups.
this is a good chart of back excercises he can be doing. Tell him to use weights that will make him tired. He should be sore the next day for at least the first week.
I would go the the USNA site, it should show in the class profile of what the cadets backgrounds are for academic purposes, including SAT

Also how did he do on the push-ups, I thought I read somewhere the average scores. If I recall right, the max points were: 17 pull-ups, 85 push-up, 95 sit-up, @6:00 mile, 7 sec shuttle and 100ft bb throw
The avgs were 8 pull-ups, @70 sit-ups, 7:30 mi, 8.5 shuttle and 70 ft BB throw, I think push ups were 56.

Out of curiosity why did you submit the ACT?

Suggestion we took for pull-ups from someone was to buy a pull-up bar and install it in the doorway of the bedroom. My s started with doing 5 each time he entered or exited, he is now up to @15. When we 1st got it we had to force him to do it, now he is motivated by seeing his results and likes doing it.
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The ACT scores were sent in as part of his HS transcript. It's on there, and the school sends everything.

As for his scores on the other parts of the CFA:

pushups - 50
situps - 73
shuttle - 4.9
bball throw - 90 ft.
mile run - 6:15

Great suggestion for the pullup bar...guess I better head out to the sporting goods store!
I understand your concern right now...I went down this road only a little while ago looking for answers, so I could try to be the rock. I will give you the same sage advice that someone gave me from this site..

Hand it over to your DS, this is afterall, their future. Have him call his BGO. The BGO can call the regional and get the scoop. I am here to hold my s for the good, the bad and the ugly. If you looked at my s's record and the fact he has 4 noms, you would think he's in, but he has flaws and the regional has pointed to those areas. His ALO, has said you were my number 1 and I maxed you out on points, but that doesn't mean you will get in. Look to you BGO and ask him to talk to your son, they (ours was) brutually honest and gave stories of people they thought would never get in, but did and stories of those who would get in, but didn't.

In the end, we are all here for support for various reasons, and as parents of Class of 2012, some of us will jump for joy and some will cry. My s will be a part of the military either ROTC or the academy, so this site is in my future for quite sometime
I can do 7 or so pull-ups now, but when I went to NASS, couldn't do a single one, and passed the CFA. Other scores weren't that great either.

Maybe the squad leader mis-wrote something on his sheet. I dunno. But there is a chance that not doing a pull-up can still pass the CFA.
As for his scores on the other parts of the CFA:

pushups - 50
situps - 73
shuttle - 4.9
bball throw - 90 ft.
mile run - 6:15

If he can run 40 yards with three 180-degree direction changes in 4.9 seconds, don't worry about it, he'll have every college coach in the country contacting him, as he is the world's fastest human. :wink:
How can you throw a bball from your knees 90ft and run a mile in 6:15 and not be able to do ONE pullup? That doesn't even seem possible.

Also, you might want to retake the ACT to get that 21 in English up. 35 in science though is amazing!
At CGA you were required to get a higher score each year. It's been awhile since I had to do a PFE or PAE for USNA, USMMA, and USCGA, but I remember the standards being higher once you got in. Get a strength coach and get him working out. It will help him and take away some stress farther down that road.
The 4.9 in the shuttle was a should have been 6.9. He did the CFA again today and managed 2 pull ups, this was submitted this afternoon:

pull ups - 2
pushups - 49
situps - 71
shuttle - 7.2
bball throw - 78 ft.
mile run - 6:12

As for the ACT, he will be taking it again. Thanks to everyone for their input.
well. .

He is better than me on paper. .

How is the GPA? above 4.0?
His Writing needs to be at least a 25. . at very least. .
I had a perfect writing and reading. . 36. .
and math and science I was doomed from the start. . 26 math 28 science. .

It also helps to have a full slate of ap classes. .
Is he captain of the a sports team? varsity?
I only did one sport for 2 years. . freshman and sophomore years. . xc captain.
but Skipped out the junior and senior year. . I got lots of queries as to why I did that. . and It was because of school work. too much hw. . not enough time.

But your son sounds very qualified. on paper.
The interview is huge. . really huge. and I had a 6 to 1 panel question me. .
Nerve wracking. .
The only thing I really question is how he has a 21 on the ACT (490 SAT equiv) and a 620 on SAT. Has your son talked to his BGO to see if they will qual him with the ACT, I know the SAT quals him, but the ACT is a dq. I would try to find out if they will ignore his ACT for his PAR. (AFA requires a 25)

If you didn't submit the CFA, I wouldn't until the deadline and get the pull-ups up. The CFA counts towards his WCS, and it is based on a total score, or at least that is what we have been told. Also you have 2 CFA scores was 1 a practice, and the 2nd the submission, or did USNA ask for a second CFA?

My best wishes, I can completely relate with you as a parent...just buy a couple of bottles of wine, rent some movies and hug him, b/c when he leaves you won't be able to give him that hug for a while:frown:

Bumblebee a 32 composite is great..congrats
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he doesn't need to take the ACT again - the academy will look only at the highest score from either test. In this case they will look at the SAT CR 620 score and ignore the ACT score.