Course Validation Confusion

M

McGiffin1882

USNA '25
Joined
Oct 13, 2020
Messages
7
Hello all,

Here is the course validation policy for reference: https://www.usna.edu/Academics/Candidate-Information/Course-Validation-Policy.php

I will be joining the class of 2025. I took the BC Calculus AP exam last year and scored a 5. On the website it says an AP score OR the validation exam will validate a class. Here's my question: if I was to take the validation exam and do poorly due to a year of not being in the class, would I not be able to validate Calc 1 (and/or Calc 2)? I don't plan on doing poorly but I want to get a clearer picture of what could happen.

Thank you!
 
McGiffin1882 said:
Hello all,

Here is the course validation policy for reference: https://www.usna.edu/Academics/Candidate-Information/Course-Validation-Policy.php

I will be joining the class of 2025. I took the BC Calculus AP exam last year and scored a 5. On the website it says an AP score OR the validation exam will validate a class. Here's my question: if I was to take the validation exam and do poorly due to a year of not being in the class, would I not be able to validate Calc 1 (and/or Calc 2)? I don't plan on doing poorly but I want to get a clearer picture of what could happen.

Thank you!
Click to expand...
You will be placed where USNA thinks you will fit best for success. They have decades of experience of looking at HS records, test scores and other factors. Let the Sorting Hat do its work and don’t worry about it. You will have other things on your mind by then.
 
Per the policy you referenced:

To be considered for validation of a course, a midshipman must have one or more of the following:

  • equivalent college level experience elsewhere,
  • high AP or IB test scores as indicated below, and/or
  • good performance on one or more validation test(s).
In general, validation for a particular course is determined by the academic department in which the course is offered.

A couple of items to note- one or more of the items need to be met, I do not believe you are guaranteed validation- you will be considered for validation by the respective department if one or more of the items are met, I also believe you can discuss validating and moving up a course (or not) with the respective department. As @Capt MJ pointed out, USNA will put you where they feel you are best suited- that being said I would also encourage as open a dialogue as permitted, if you have questions, between you and the respective department.
 
My current plebe was in the same boat - scored a 5 on the B/C Calculus AP exam and thought from reading the course validation policy that there would be an automatic validation, but for whatever reason was still required to write the validation exam during Plebe Summer. Wrote several validation exams during that timeframe and said that they were all manageable and inline with what had previously been learned in the AP classes.
 
My son didn’t validate any courses but USNA started him at Calc 3.

Per usual - @Capt MJ is spot on.

The point I would make is these classes are the building blocks for other classes. Why not take the validation tests anyway? If you do poorly you might be better off not validating.
 
Echo everyone else. Adding this: don’t worry at all (parents, too!!) about placement. You will have testing performed (as discussed), and will also be assigned, and meet with, an academic advisor. Where you can have a discussion. As already said, they are very good at looking at it all and placing appropriate. Yes, there may be considerations unique to this last year of learning, but they will be considered in the big picture, and proper placement.

If you are really shooting to validate something you feel you are stong in, but may be a little rusty, nothing says you cannot brush up on fundamentals before plebe summer. Personally, I wouldn’t spend my precious last moments studying for a placement exam, but it’s an option!

Rest assured, you will be properly placed.
 
+1 @justdoit19 prior to plebe summer, our DS was apprehensive since he had been out of the classroom due to Covid. He spent a good amount of time on his own listening to MIT lectures on his math courses. He said they were free, excellent and he felt really helped him brush up.

USNA has a vested interest in the midshipmen's success, they will place each student where they need to be, and there are tons of opportunities for tutoring from peers, EI (Extra instruction) offered by the professors and academic advising is active and supportive.

Getting into classes you aren't ready for would be worse than a minor do over in a core class IMHO.
 
My DS says there are two schools of thought amongst the mids regarding validation during Plebe Summer - (1) do the best you can on the tests and try to validate into harder classes right away or (2) use the opportunity to sit for a couple of hours in glorious air conditioning and sleep through the test. He tried both methods (the second inadvertently). Two years in, he said (just the other day, in fact) that if you have a solid high school background AND good study habits/time management, you should try your best to validate as many classes as you can. Otherwise, you run the risk of being bored out of your skull in classes you should have validated. Good study habits/time management trumps innate academic ability every time.
 
On the Blackboard website where the validation tests are located, the description for math placement tests says:

"The Calculus validation exams are optional. They should be taken if you have any desire to validate any calculus courses. These online validation exams are your ONLY opportunity aside from AP scores to validate Calculus I, II, & III. . .If you are expecting to validate via an AP score for a math course, make sure your scores are sent to the USNA Registrar. AP scores will trump the online test scores."

Since you received a 5 on the BC exam, you will be able to validate both Calculus I and II regardless of the score you receive on the online validation test (in theory), but you still have to take the test. Personally, I got a 5 on BC as well, but I still wanted to do well on the I and II tests as not to raise any eyebrows (it's been 2 years since I took BC), so I studied using the textbook and practiced on released exams from the USNA math department website. IMO the validation tests for calc seemed to be more a check of basic skills than a critical thinking challenge, so a review of topics and some practice should set you up fine since you already took the class and got the top exam score.
 
ders_dad said:
My DS says there are two schools of thought amongst the mids regarding validation during Plebe Summer - (1) do the best you can on the tests and try to validate into harder classes right away or (2) use the opportunity to sit for a couple of hours in glorious air conditioning and sleep through the test. He tried both methods (the second inadvertently). Two years in, he said (just the other day, in fact) that if you have a solid high school background AND good study habits/time management, you should try your best to validate as many classes as you can. Otherwise, you run the risk of being bored out of your skull in classes you should have validated. Good study habits/time management trumps innate academic ability every time.
Click to expand...
Along these same lines, each year there will be Plebes who purposely do poorly on validation exams, in order to take a lower-level class and get an "easy" A. Then they soon learn they are attending N*t College, and end up getting a B or C because they took the class too lightly while concentrating on other duties. Ironically, they would have gotten a better grade in the higher level classes in many cases because of better effort.
 
In our day, placement / validation tests were given in the middle of the summer. Other than meals, it was the first time most of us had experienced air-conditioning since I-Day (Bancroft had not A/C in those days). We were totally exhausted and so happy to be in A/C, that almost everyone immediately fell asleep. That's why the tests are now given very early in the summer.

My view is to do your best without preparing. If you do validate, consider how you felt about the test right after in terms of whether to take the higher level course. Did everything seem generally easy? Or were you shocked you validated? My roommate and I both took the French validation test. We felt we had totally bombed it yet ended up validating 4 semesters (French 1 & 2). My roommate then French 3 and struggled. We also took English, felt we'd knocked it out of the park, validated a semester and never looked back. This tells me that your gut instincts are probably correct.

Bottom line: you want to be challenged in part for the reasons Brewmeist suggests, but also not struggle academically when it's not necessary.
 
Thank you everyone for your replies! I'm feeling pretty good about where I am right now for validations and what you said helped a lot.
 
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