Dating while in the service

[Chockstock]

Chock- I'm gonna speak as a Dad and a Married man more than as a retired soldier. Everything I say is just my opinion but most of your questions are just asking for opinions anyway. Here goes:
You're gonna move in the Army- alot. I moved 14 times in my career- which was the exciting part. You see the world and the country and you don't get stale in your job. Is that the norm- I don't know- there were folks who homesteaded- (My brother spent the last 8 years of his career in Seoul and retired there) and I think prior to the War that the Army was tying to stabilize and reduce the number of PCS moves that folks make. Is there a cost to moving? Yes- my son moved for the last time at the start of his Junior year in HS. But on the whole- great experience and a lot of fun. Do you get to pick? Well you get to request- and if you are lucky and the Army needs you there because of your specialty - then you get where you want. The only two assignments I hated where places that I picked. All the rest the Army picked and they were great- either because of geography or the unit I was with.
(Here comes Dad)You can't live your life looking for certainties. You will find what you need where ever you are. Long Distance relationships for long periods aren't optimal for certain- but who says that is anymore likely in the Army than anywhere else? This isn't 1956 anymore- the double career couple is pretty much either the norm or getting there quickly and that means that you will be faced with challenges as to whose career comes first, where you live etc... I see this in the corporate world all the time now in the engineers and managers who I have working for me. Life is complicated wherever you wind up.
(Half Dad/Half Soldier speaking) I will tell you that the Army is the most ethnically diverse environment in the world. That is good- it rips you out of the cocoon that most of us live in. You will have the whole world to choose from and you will run into all of them including a large % of whatever race you are. My brother married a Korean girl & my sister a full blooded Hawaiian. Neither of them now have whiteblond Norwegian/Swedish children -but they have wonderful spouses and really beautiful children (well they were children- now most of them are your age or older).
Finally- (Dad again): Don't sweat the future. If the thought of not being in total control of your time and life then you won't like the Army. But at 18 most folks have little concept of what lies ahead regardless of what field they choose- so don't overthink the details. It will work out

First off, thanks for the deep, personal insight. Its always the best to hear it from someone whos been there and done it.

I had several comments and questions though. Firstly I wanted to say that Im surprised at the number of times you relocated...14 years! I am going to guess you served for at least 30 years before retiring, and Ill have to say that must have been very frequent.

Isn't it emotionally as well as physically tough on your family to move so often? I know I cant generalize - there are families completely comfortable with it and those who aren't, but I cant help thinking about how hard it must have been for your wife and kids. Did moving 14 times literally mean living in 14 different homes and your kids going to 14 schools? Or, did you leave your wife and children behind at a permanent location in the US somewhere? Either way, it must have been tough being away from home. It sounds like you had the time of your life traveling the world, but does everything really do work out as well as it did for you? Isn't it difficult to raise kids when you're away from home so often and for so long? Im sorry if I sound prying, but its an aspect of military life that Ive always wanted to know about.

Really? Coming from a retired soldier, I would have to trust you since you were there, but I always under the impression that the Army was primarily composed of whites...I mean thats what I always see on Army tv ads and brochures at least. But that certainly is not a problem when I started considering the military, though, since I think I get along well with most people. I guess its a bit stereotypical and the real situation is different in an officership.

And thanks for the last few sentences...although Im not quite 18 yet (this month I will be), you're probably right when you say I'm taking it too seriously. But its tough to not think about it...I only have a vague idea of what I want to do with my life and Im just trying to prepare for the future by considering all options and preparing for the worst.

 

[wannabe2013]

but I always under the impression that the Army was primarily composed of whites...I mean thats what I always see on Army tv ads and brochures at least.

http://www.armyg1.army.mil/HR/docs/demographics/FY08%20Army%20Profile.pdf

http://www.indexmundi.com/united_states/demographics_profile.html

The first link is the US Army demographics for the fiscal year 2008 the second are the 2009 US demographics but the racial demographics are from the 2007 Census Bureau estimate.
The majority of soldiers are white but I wouldn't say "primarily". 73% of officers are white which is lower than the total percentage for the United States (about 80%) and only 61% of enlisted are white. The military is very diverse compared to other professional communities.

 

[KPMum2012]

Chockstock, you asked a number of questions about how the families feel about moving. As the wife of a retired Army officer, I think I can address some of your concerns. First let me state that without a doubt I would do it over again in a heartbeat! I wouldn't trade any of my experiences because there was always a benefit hidden somewhere in the hard times, even if it was just to learn that I had to be responsible for my own contentment instead of expecting it to just happen.

In the last 25 years, we have lived in 4 different states, none of which were our original homes, and 4 foreign countries. Sure it was hard to move. But our 2 kids are very independent and self-confident. They expect that they can handle whatever life throws at them. When you move in the military, there is a support system that is unmatched. Most of the other kids in the schools are also moving every few years, so it's not so bad being the new kid. Everyone goes through it. You find that the military is actually a very small world and you'll constantly be running into people you know when you least expect it. Sure, some people hate it. But honestly, you won't avoid moving by being civilian. The running joke is that IBM means "I Been Moved." I've watched people be moved by their corporations with far less notice than we've gotten for most of our military moves. I've also watched their uncertainty about job security. They come overseas and have no PX or Commissary (US style department store and grocery store). No one helps them figure out where things are or how to get settled. The military has an established sponsorship system to help you settle in to your duty station. It's not perfect, but it's a lot better than nothing.

Bruno gave you some excellent advice. You can not begin to predict how your life will turn out. All you can do is to make the best of the cards life deals you. Keep a positive attitude and reach for your dreams. And know that it is possible to have a rich and satisfying family life in the military.

 

[Pima]

Bullet and I moved approximately the same amount as Bruno, and he retired at the 20 yr marker. Before he pinned on Captain he and I had already had moved 4 times, not including a 3 month stint at LIFT. By the time we hit our ten yr anniversary (married him as a 2nd lt) we had lived in 5 homes, and if you include me spending 2 stints while he was at 2 different schools for a total of 11 months(TDY enroute) it would be 6. From July of 2001 to June of 2005, we lived in 3 different states within 4 yrs. On top of that 8 months later they offered him a command at another base, which we turned down, thus in it would have been 4 homes, 4 different bases in 5 yrs. Some people will homestead, however, the successful officers will move quite frequently for career progression.

I agree with KP, the physical packing and unpacking is the most difficult part. When Bullet retired we figured out the weight that we have packed and unpacked over the course of his career it was @250,000 lbs. Every base/post is very tight knit. Squadrons know when someone new is coming and they usually have a sponsor there for you when you arrive. These people show not only the service member the ins and outs, but if they have a wife, she is the one that will show up with a casserole on move in day and the one to drive her the first wives coffee. The military has done this forever and have it fined tune to an art.

Our children have gone to no less than 8 schools in their public school career. Their hardest part was always leaving, tears and sobbing from our DD, DS's just emotionally closed ranks to the family and moved on.

I would like to pass on 2 great pieces of advice that helped me throughout our career.
1. Your assignment will be whatever you make of it. You walk in and say this place stinks, well it will! This will also most likely present itself in your attitude at work and when you don't get the dream job, the cycle will become even worse.
2. Never look back. As you pull the car out of your driveway, tell your wife not to look into the rearview mirror it will only make her cry, tell her to look forward to the new friends she will meet. If you are going to a place like FL from NY, remind her of how much fun it will be to take the kids to the beach. If you are going from TX to AK, say to her I can't wait until the kids see snow for the 1st time.

It is all about how you view it. You will not have a family for yrs, but here is a clip from the poem "Air Force Brat", it also is the same words for Army and Navy:

"My hometown is nowhere, my friends are evwhere. I grew up with the knowwledge that home is where the heart is and the family...Friendships are formed in hours and kept for decades. I will not grow up with anyone, but I will mature with many. Be it inevitable that paths part, there is a constant hope thaat they wiill meet again."

Finally, even with all of the moves, packing and unpacking, registering for new schools and maanipulating my own career to fit into wherever Bullet was assigned, I WOULD DO IT AGAIN WITHOUT A HESITATION. I walked out with friends I would have never met, places I would have never seen, things I would have never done. Due to this our family has now a traditional Thanksgiving toast..."To our friends that are our family, and our family that are our friends" Bullet and I are fortunate that the military gave us that ability.

 

[packermatt7]

There is time to date here. It's hard though when you only get 10 passes a semester though. That's my excuse right now

 

[wannabe2013]

There is time to date here. It's hard though when you only get 10 passes a semester though. That's my excuse right now

Yeah,at least you guys get passes. If we want to get out of USNA for enough time to actually do anything you have to wait for the football team to win...oh wait that happens all the time.

 

[armybratkl]

First off, thanks for the deep, personal insight. Its always the best to hear it from someone whos been there and done it.

I had several comments and questions though. Firstly I wanted to say that Im surprised at the number of times you relocated...14 years! I am going to guess you served for at least 30 years before retiring, and Ill have to say that must have been very frequent.

Isn't it emotionally as well as physically tough on your family to move so often? I know I cant generalize - there are families completely comfortable with it and those who aren't, but I cant help thinking about how hard it must have been for your wife and kids. Did moving 14 times literally mean living in 14 different homes and your kids going to 14 schools? Or, did you leave your wife and children behind at a permanent location in the US somewhere? Either way, it must have been tough being away from home. It sounds like you had the time of your life traveling the world, but does everything really do work out as well as it did for you? Isn't it difficult to raise kids when you're away from home so often and for so long? Im sorry if I sound prying, but its an aspect of military life that Ive always wanted to know about.

Really? Coming from a retired soldier, I would have to trust you since you were there, but I always under the impression that the Army was primarily composed of whites...I mean thats what I always see on Army tv ads and brochures at least. But that certainly is not a problem when I started considering the military, though, since I think I get along well with most people. I guess its a bit stereotypical and the real situation is different in an officership.

And thanks for the last few sentences...although Im not quite 18 yet (this month I will be), you're probably right when you say I'm taking it too seriously. But its tough to not think about it...I only have a vague idea of what I want to do with my life and Im just trying to prepare for the future by considering all options and preparing for the worst.

I can't say much about how you in the future will handle PCSing, but I can provide some insight into what life may be like for future children.

My dad enlisted in the army straight out of high school, and later went to college. Several years later, when he was about 29, a friend of his married a former roommate of my mother's. They hit it off, and carried on a long-distance relationship afterward. She lived in Wisconsin. He, at the time, lived in Georgia.

My dad just retired from the army, after serving for 30 years. I do not know how many times he has moved, but since I was born nearly 18 years ago, my family has moved nine times. I have attended seven different schools.

It is difficult leaving behind friends, of course. However, all of the schools I went to, with the exception of two, were schools for military children. Oftentimes, a third of the school would be entirely new to the area in any given year. IMO, this forces we military brats to be more open to other people. I feel that, in general, we are less prejudiced towards newcomers than children who lived in the same place and have known the same people their whole lives. The military lifestyle forces you out of your comfort zone, and growing up with it, you learn to be flexible. You learn to take the time you're given and make the most of it.

My one regret, as a military brat, is that I was never able to develop a really close-knit relationship with anyone (this is also because of my personality, however). Looking back, though, I am glad my dad did what he did. I got the opportunity to live in Europe and see so many foreign cultures. How many American children get that opportunity? Few. By being forced to move all across the country, and to another continent, I had my eyes opened to a portion of the world that's available to me, and I believe that inspires me to set my sights higher. People who grow up in the same area tend to stick with their comfort zone -- they go to a school close by, then work in that same area that they grew up in. Many of my teachers are examples of such. But I, not bound to any area, with no affinity towards any one particular city, county, state, or region, have a much wider range of opportunities open to me (or perhaps that I am willing to consider) for colleges and future jobs. Overall, I think the benefits of being a military brat outweigh any disadvantages.

 

[IrishDancer]

I'll give a little different perspective on the issue of moving a lot. My dad works for IBM and like armybrat, I've moved 9 times in 18 years. Because my family isn't in the military I can't speak to what it's like when you move in the service, but from what I've read it sounds like you get a lot of support. With IBM you got none-- we were completely on our own. Wanting to go into the military I've always been concerned about putting my future family through what I've already been through. However, I think it will be completely different because everyone in your community will understand what you're going through. So I honestly wouldn't worry about all the moves.

Although, I unfortunately have to be a bit of a debbie downer and give somewhat of a different opinion on the benefits of moving than what other posters have said. As I previously stated, don't worry about it-- you and your family will definitely make it through whatever you're faced with related to moves. But for me, I personally don't think moving all the time is all that great. The lines that everyone says about it being a great experience or learning how to meet new people are, in my opinion, things that parents tell their children to make themselves feel better. In reality, it sucks leaving friends. The last day in a home before you leave will always be near the top of my list of worst days ever. For girls, and sometimes boys, the tears will flow-- a lot. Also, you really don't have the opportunity to grow really close with one person. Yes, you can keep in touch with people but it's not the same. I was lucky enough to come back to the same city 3 different times and thus I did have a best friend who was like a sister, but most families aren't that lucky.

So yes, I hated moving and think it's terrible but I've turned out fine. Children are very resilient so it honestly might be harder for the parents! Also, I know it's hard (I struggle with it too!) but don't worry so much about the future-- it really will turn out ok in the end!!

 

[Pima]

Irish, I agree it stinks, but I think your personal life was/is different than the military member. The reason why is because your Dad was corporate, in other words, you were the odd duck moving. In the military many of the schools are @30% military, there are a lot of kids coming and going every yr. So when the military kid moves, it does stink for them personally, but there is something calming to them knowing that they aren't the only ones going. The schools are much more accepting to the "new kid", you do not have that traditional "clique" that you do have at a school where they have known everyone since kindergarten. Also, one thing to realize is that many officers will move among the same circle...i.e. F-15E's are at 3 operational bases, which means as kids you keep meeting up with them over and over again. Of course, you have the occassional PCS that you know nobody, but out of 20 yrs, that happened only once for our kids when we went to the Pentagon. The same would be true for Army jumpers, because there are only so many posts that are "jump". Or the Navy if the folks are bubble heads.

The beauty of moving within the military is that where you live is usually area specific that have a ton of military families. If the folks opt to live on base, everyone is military, everyone knows how it feels. Typically, as the 18 wheeler is pulling up in the driveway, the kids next door are over at your door checking to see if you have kids and how old they are, if you are lucky the kids are the same age and before you know it they left their chore of unpacking to go play with them. If you live off base, you will find that the military also seems to make their own off base housing and it is usually rank oriented (certain neighborhoods will be filled with company grade, some with field ---this is due to the BAH), they tend to buy/rent within the same neighborhoods. Our last home in NC has been owned or rented by 3 military families in consecutive order. The neighbors home is the same, and the homes are only 10-12 yrs old. Our neighborhood in AK was known as the base housing of the North (referring to its location to the base) because so many military members lived in it.

Then add into the fact at least for the AF, every squadron has what is called 1st Friday. This is when you do hail and farewells where children are invited. The kids go off and play together, so within days or weeks at worse, your children are thrown into a social situation. They also have childrens xmas parties, Moms day out and other get togethers for social purposes.

All in all, I believe military "brats" are incredibly resilient when it comes to moving because there is an incredibly large safety net to immediately place them in social situations, whereas, the corporate world you are left on your own.

Did my kids cry as they said goodby, sometimes. However, when I turned them and said, yes it's sad, but aren't you excited to see so and so again? When they realized "Oh yeah, I forgot they are there" their next words were when will we see them? Can we go over there as soon as we get there? They only get upset when you say, yes, but it might not be for a few days because we need to find a new house. From there, knowing that they already have a social connection, they turn and say can I pick out my room and the paint colors?

Maybe, Bullet and I were fortunate, but that is how it rolled with us for our last 10 yrs, which would mean since our eldest was 8 and youngest was 4.