Didn't Get It.
- Thread starter USMA - I'm on my way!
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No, I can't. I have not heard this but in another thread (http://www.serviceacademyforums.com/showthread.php?t=24979), BigNick said that this is a new development, even since PPW. I'm guessing that BigNick went to a Founder's Day this past weekend where the Supe was the speaker.
This is somewhat of an unexpected development as I have not heard anything about this including no mention of it in an email from my RC this morning.
But, the Supe would certainly know the latest info on admissions more than me!
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And get the grey cards & security forms in!
I've never heard of anyone dropped for not having their uniform grey card in. But we have seen warnings and cut off dates for some of the long lead time items to 2015 appointees. Especially early appointments.
USMA - I'm on my way!
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So this is for anyone who has reapplied and gotten in:
What classes did you take in college? (A big emphasis on math-related courses?)
What extra-curriculars did you do to better your file?
Anything else you'd like to share to help us Plan B people out!
I understand this is going to be different for everyone, but I would like to have an idea of what I have to do later this year.
Also, when filling out your WP online app again, how did you get your college professors' SOE filled out in a timely manner given that you will have only known them for less than a month.
What classes did you take in college? (A big emphasis on math-related courses?)
What extra-curriculars did you do to better your file?
Anything else you'd like to share to help us Plan B people out!
I understand this is going to be different for everyone, but I would like to have an idea of what I have to do later this year.
Also, when filling out your WP online app again, how did you get your college professors' SOE filled out in a timely manner given that you will have only known them for less than a month.
Jacobryan10
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Well, that one can be tricky.
My advice would be to sit up at the front row, pay attention, and try to be involved in class at an appropriate level. Don't be a suck up or anything, but show you are interested and motivated to do well.
I got my Calculus Professor and Linear Circuits professor to write me one because I was actually interested in their class, I talked to them on a regular basis about random things like math equations, the weather, or even marshmallows frozen with liquid nitrogen. It doesn't have to be academic, it can also be for fun. I also worked hard in their class, sat up front, and paid attention. Sometimes it is just a matter of being a nice person and just showing up and being dedicated. Professors usually love helping students, especially if the student makes an clear focused effort to do well in their class.
At around early December, I asked them to write me one and they were very nice about it and said they would gladly do it. I gave them a copy of my resume, my transcripts from college, and my west point application essays. Anything you can give them that will let them know more about you can only help them.
As far as extracurriculars, I would highly recommend ROTC, and try to join some sort of community council (there are a bunch, and its easy to get a leadership spot). You should realize that leadership spots will be hard to get as a freshman usually. Your best bet is to just do well in school. Math, Physics, Chemistry, and other technical course can really make you look good, especially if you get an A. Club or intramural sports are good too. Just make sure you don't do so much stuff that you burn out.
I know I said quite a mouthful, but I hope this helps. If you have any more questions feel free to ask.
My advice would be to sit up at the front row, pay attention, and try to be involved in class at an appropriate level. Don't be a suck up or anything, but show you are interested and motivated to do well.
I got my Calculus Professor and Linear Circuits professor to write me one because I was actually interested in their class, I talked to them on a regular basis about random things like math equations, the weather, or even marshmallows frozen with liquid nitrogen. It doesn't have to be academic, it can also be for fun. I also worked hard in their class, sat up front, and paid attention. Sometimes it is just a matter of being a nice person and just showing up and being dedicated. Professors usually love helping students, especially if the student makes an clear focused effort to do well in their class.
At around early December, I asked them to write me one and they were very nice about it and said they would gladly do it. I gave them a copy of my resume, my transcripts from college, and my west point application essays. Anything you can give them that will let them know more about you can only help them.
As far as extracurriculars, I would highly recommend ROTC, and try to join some sort of community council (there are a bunch, and its easy to get a leadership spot). You should realize that leadership spots will be hard to get as a freshman usually. Your best bet is to just do well in school. Math, Physics, Chemistry, and other technical course can really make you look good, especially if you get an A. Club or intramural sports are good too. Just make sure you don't do so much stuff that you burn out.
I know I said quite a mouthful, but I hope this helps. If you have any more questions feel free to ask.
USMA - I'm on my way!
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Of course it helps! You've definitely given me (and I'm sure many others) great insight. Is it okay to wait until december to get the SOE's? If someone is shooting for an LOA, don't they need to finish their app a lot earlier?
Jacobryan10
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To get an LOA you would have to finish your application earlier. But Just because your app is done earlier, that does not mean you will automatically get an LOA. They are reserved for the most competitive candidates. So if you somehow manage to instantly connect with your professors within a month or two, then yeah you should get them to write you one earlier if you think they can write a good one. I should also note that they will accept SOEs from teaching assistants. The most important thing though is getting a good strong SOE, as LOAs are hard to come by.
The Professor's mandatory Office Hours (email first to let him/her know you're coming)! Usually not a single student visits in the first two weeks.
You have until the end of your first semester to get your 2 SOEs from professors because WP won't evaluate your file until they get your 1st semester transcripts.
When you reapply, you will be adding to your current file. See what areas are deficient. You want your file stronger.
Better yet - contact your RC and ask him in what areas did you fall short. Let him know that you intend to reapply and get his suggestions!
If you want want to be in the LOA hunt, the best thing you can do is take and retake and retake the ACT AND SAT.
What to do now:
- Finish your senior year out strong.
- No senioritis.
- No senior pranks.
- Finish with the highest class rank that you can.
- Maybe you can get some honors by the end of the year.
- Start working out for the CFA with the goal to max each event. At a minimum, do better on it than you did last year.
- Keep pursuing leadership positions.
- Keep doing community service.
- Get a summer job.
Add all these updates to your file when it reopens this summer.
What to do once in college:
- Do well academically - show that you can handle college level courses.
- Take Math (preferably Calculus), English, History, Chemistry w/Lab
- Enroll in ROTC if you think you can do it AND do well academically. Doing well academically is more important. Do not be a 'C' student or you can expect the same outcome as this year.
- Keep taking the ACT and SAT - this is how college students make themselves more competitive.
- Complete your file before you go to college. Obviously, you won't have the 2 college SOEs and 1st semester transcript - but finish everything else.
Getting the TWE is discouraging, but if there is a silver lining for those that want to give it another try, you do have an advantage over those that are applying for the first time. You know where your file fell short and you now have the opportunity to work on those areas. To improve those areas.
In a nutshell - stay motivated, be successful in college, and improve your ACT and SAT scores!
Improve, improve, improve your file!
When you reapply, you will be adding to your current file. See what areas are deficient. You want your file stronger.
Better yet - contact your RC and ask him in what areas did you fall short. Let him know that you intend to reapply and get his suggestions!
If you want want to be in the LOA hunt, the best thing you can do is take and retake and retake the ACT AND SAT.
What to do now:
- Finish your senior year out strong.
- No senioritis.
- No senior pranks.
- Finish with the highest class rank that you can.
- Maybe you can get some honors by the end of the year.
- Start working out for the CFA with the goal to max each event. At a minimum, do better on it than you did last year.
- Keep pursuing leadership positions.
- Keep doing community service.
- Get a summer job.
Add all these updates to your file when it reopens this summer.
What to do once in college:
- Do well academically - show that you can handle college level courses.
- Take Math (preferably Calculus), English, History, Chemistry w/Lab
- Enroll in ROTC if you think you can do it AND do well academically. Doing well academically is more important. Do not be a 'C' student or you can expect the same outcome as this year.
- Keep taking the ACT and SAT - this is how college students make themselves more competitive.
- Complete your file before you go to college. Obviously, you won't have the 2 college SOEs and 1st semester transcript - but finish everything else.
Getting the TWE is discouraging, but if there is a silver lining for those that want to give it another try, you do have an advantage over those that are applying for the first time. You know where your file fell short and you now have the opportunity to work on those areas. To improve those areas.
In a nutshell - stay motivated, be successful in college, and improve your ACT and SAT scores!
Improve, improve, improve your file!
60% Academics (30% - ACT/SAT scores, 30% Class Rank)
30% Leadership (10% athletic participation, 10% SOEs, 10% ECs)
10% CFA
So what about reapplying as a self prep at a military college? Obtaining a good grades with all plebe coursework makes the ACT kind of pointless doesn't it?
What happens in the case of a kid that excels in the military life in leadership, EC's, and get maximum scores on the CFA but only gets 3.3 or 3.4 grades in Plebe like courses? Is he going to get beat out by a unproven high school kid that maxes out on grades and ACT?
Unproven in what? that Applicant who maxes out their HS grades has proven they can keep up with the WP academic load.
The 3.3 or 3.4 grades applicant you ask about should consider also applying to ROTC at a college (or SMC) less academically demanding than WP, and if they don't get a scholarship, participate as a non-scholarship cadet and commission that way, or enlist and work toward commission that way, or attend OCS after graduating from civilian college. WP is not for above average students. It is for Superior students. WP is not only a four year leasdership training camp. WP is an also an intellecutally demanding prestigious technical college awarding a B.S. degree. There are no B.A. degrees awarded.
what does this tell you? Why would you want to be at WP if you're not in the top 5% academically? That's a TOUGH road. The other cadets will, because of duty, spend any extra time they have tutoring those less able, but why force that suckout of cadet resources that is typically reserved for blue chip athletes?
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I can see where ImBatman is coming from. SAT/ACT are predictors of college success and the correlation is debatable. The kid who spends a year in college has already shown his aptitude in a college environment (not all colleges are of equal rigor) A 3.4 freshman gpa may be outstanding or not. I would guess WP takes this into consideration but have no idea how.
I may be wrong but I think this ImBatman is referring to a student that did not get an appointment this year and goes to college with the intent of applying to WP again.
The 3.3 or 3.4 GPA he spoke of is the GPA they get in college taking courses that match the WP plebe year. I don't think they were speaking about a HS student with that same GPA.
Not every 4.0, high ACT HS student will have the same success at college, I think that's what he meant by unproven. I'm not sure I would say that just because a HS student maxes out in grades it proves they can handle WP, the attrition rate at WP includes a lot of HS allstars.
It would be interesting to know if an applicant that is reapplying to WP is looked at differently regarding GPA based on the fact that they are now taking college courses, of course I imagine it would depend on the courses they take.
globalview2
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While I believe WP to be an exceptional institution I don't think that if you are not top 5% you should not even bother. Also, correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't a 3.3-3.4 AT LEAST be in the top half of the class at WP? I think that while at WP you need to work very hard academically, some maybe more than others, but just because you are not top 5% in high school does not mean you will not be successful. People need to adjust to college-being away from home, increased work load, military etc.. Some do it better than others
GoArmyBeatNavy
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At West Point.
Getting a 3.3-3.4 at a Junior Military Prep School or state school doesn't necessarily translate to getting a 3.3 to 3.4 at West Point.
So you are saying getting a 3.3-3.4 at a Military Prep like MMI or NMMI doesn't prepare a soldier to be successful at USMA? I've heard it can be HARDER at these types of schools? So why does USMA send their sponsored preps there?
Thanks to the folks that clarified my question which is:How is the 60% determined for the college reapps?
Using the ACT and class rank does not make any sense to me. Being compared with high school kids like this would make reapplying questionable and maybe taking a path such as Dunninla suggested would be better?
GoArmyBeatNavy
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Do you realize how hard West Point is?
I didn't say that "it won't prepare" someone for success at West Point. I just said that it doesn't mean that a 3.4 in a junior military college will mean a 3.4 at West Point.