Diversity Inclusion

From A Family of Enlisted

From A Family of Enlisted

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Feb 21, 2020
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By 2050, over 40% of the United States will be Hispanic. If a candidate that is below the average on his SAT for USAFA, does he have a better chance than say a caucasian candidate? It would make sense because all of the services need to recruit so that the branch represents the United States as a whole. How does diversity work filling up the class?
 
My guess is there are (and always will be) plenty of candidates with ethnic and diverse backgrounds who are able to score average or above average on the SAT according to what USAFA requires. I don't think USAFA has any problem filling out the pie chart, so to speak.
 
From A Family of Enlisted said:
By 2050, over 40% of the United States will be Hispanic. If a candidate that is below the average on his SAT for USAFA, does he have a better chance than say a caucasian candidate? It would make sense because all of the services need to recruit so that the branch represents the United States as a whole. How does diversity work filling up the class?
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Are you asking about in hypothetical 2050 or current day?
 
From A Family of Enlisted said:
By 2050, over 40% of the United States will be Hispanic. If a candidate that is below the average on his SAT for USAFA, does he have a better chance than say a caucasian candidate? It would make sense because all of the services need to recruit so that the branch represents the United States as a whole. How does diversity work filling up the class?
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Well, no. The candidate would still need to meet the requirements regardless of their ethnic background. This is a common misconception of the college process. Most of the time the student would also have to have stats comparable to the average and exemplify leadership.

In all honesty, my main concern would be "legacy" children that often get a leg up due their parents being ex military members.

That's just my two cents on it.
 
Toe tapping the diversity beach water to see if want to go in. Okay, ankle deep only. I can’t tell you how diversity works on filling up a class and I don’t know if I’ll be around in 2050. But it is my hope that diversity is reflected in the services and nation as a norm and not it being a political or cultural point of contention as some see it today. My only concern ever, as a pilot, was if the person sitting next to me could fly the bird or if I’d trust them to fly my family around. I didn’t (and still don’t) care what diversity category they filled or fill. What counted for me was that they were good officers and competent at what they were doing.
 
WT Door said:
My only concern ever, as a pilot, was if the person sitting next to me could fly the bird or if I’d trust them to fly my family around. I didn’t (and still don’t) care what diversity category they filled or fill. What counted for me was that they were good officers and competent at what they were doing.
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Well said!
 
Dipping ONLY my toe in...

IMO, by the time a student is applying to a SA, the chance to enhance diversity is over. IOW, there needs to be outreach via the formative school years. To ensure that schools/communities/etc are creating opportunities for kids to get the same exposure to STEM, test prep support, opportunities for youth sports, etc. So that there IS a qualified, diverse pool for the SA’s to choose from. I find USNA to be a pretty diverse place. And then my opinion is the same as @WT Door once it comes time for selecting appointments.
 
WT Door said:
Toe tapping the diversity beach water to see if want to go in. Okay, ankle deep only. I can’t tell you how diversity works on filling up a class and I don’t know if I’ll be around in 2050. But it is my hope that diversity is reflected in the services and nation as a norm and not it being a political or cultural point of contention as some see it today. My only concern ever, as a pilot, was if the person sitting next to me could fly the bird or if I’d trust them to fly my family around. I didn’t (and still don’t) care what diversity category they filled or fill. What counted for me was that they were good officers and competent at what they were doing.
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My enemies don't care what's in my pants, what my skin color is or what god I follow. They care that I get shot down. Guess what? If my wing person can keep me in the air and I can keep them flying then I could care less about what's in their pants, what skin color, or what god. Just get me home in one piece ( preferably)
 
From A Family of Enlisted said:
By 2050, over 40% of the United States will be Hispanic. If a candidate that is below the average on his SAT for USAFA, does he have a better chance than say a caucasian candidate? It would make sense because all of the services need to recruit so that the branch represents the United States as a whole. How does diversity work filling up the class?
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I have another question. You say "all of the services need to recruit so that the branch represents the United States as a whole."

That sounds like a quota system. Do the SAs have a quota system for admission?
 
Drenns3 said:
My guess is there are (and always will be) plenty of candidates with ethnic and diverse backgrounds who are able to score average or above average on the SAT according to what USAFA requires. I don't think USAFA has any problem filling out the pie chart, so to speak.
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Don't be so sure about that. Back in the late 90's, USNA admissions hired a consulting firm to help with diversity admissions. One of their first actions was to attempt to determine the size of the "target" population (number of persons in "X" diversity group). They used an entering SAT math score of 600. Although well below the Academy's average SAT math score, it was selected as a reasonable figure that could indicate ability to handle the STEM core of the Academy curriculum. * From the College Board, they determined the size of that population and it was easily seen that if you added the stated or unstated diversity goals of USNA, USMA, USAFA and the Ivies plus Stanford, U of Chicago, and a couple of others, it was immediately obvious that the SUPPLY of potential candidates was less than half of the actual population available to fill those spots.


* Years later when I became affiliated with the STEM university where I now teach, I had numerous discussions with technical faculty and ALL of them agreed that there was a minimum SAT Math score below which they would be concerned about ability in a STEM environment. Their individual numbers varied but most were above 600.
 
This topic always assumes the minority candidate isn’t qualified, or even as qualified as someone else who didn’t get the appointment.

Based off a lower SAT? There is more to it than that.

Every midshipman earned their spot and is an equal member of the team.

There are plenty of qualified people who didn’t make it too. Not sure how anyone can comment about comparisons without having the complete admissions data.

Does anyone talk about the lower SATs of whites that got in?
 
A1Janitor said:
This topic always assumes the minority candidate isn’t qualified, or even as qualified as someone else who didn’t get the appointment.

Based off a lower SAT? There is more to it than that.

Every midshipman earned their spot and is an equal member of the team.

There are plenty of qualified people who didn’t make it too. Not sure how anyone can comment about comparisons without having the complete admissions data.
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As you should be aware by now, I'm pretty familiar with qualifications beyond the SAT. Given that most STEM professors see a correlation between
college success (on time graduation) and the Math SAT, this was an attempt to determine the size of the population with that ONE attribute. Realizing that there were many other qualities that had to be assessed including ability pass the physical exam, this was just an attempt to grossly "size" the population had NOTHING to do with who was interviewed or admitted. In reality, it went much further in that it was used to determine communications paths and points for admissions to reach they desired audience.
Go back and read the comment that I was responding to and see the context of the discussion.
 
OldRetSWO said:
As you should be aware by now, I'm pretty familiar with qualifications beyond the SAT. Given that most STEM professors see a correlation between
college success (on time graduation) and the Math SAT, this was an attempt to determine the size of the population with that ONE attribute. Realizing that there were many other qualities that had to be assessed including ability pass the physical exam, this was just an attempt to grossly "size" the population had NOTHING to do with who was interviewed or admitted. In reality, it went much further in that it was used to determine communications paths and points for admissions to reach they desired audience.
Go back and read the comment that I was responding to and see the context of the discussion.
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I added a sentence that wasn’t there originally ... before I read your response.

I am not arguing with your position, far from it.

Is there discussion about whites that don’t get 600 on these boards?
 
A1Janitor said:
I added a sentence that wasn’t there originally ... before I read your response.

I am not arguing with your position, far from it.

Is there discussion about whites that don’t get 600 on these boards?
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As far as I know, there is not an outreach to find whites who are below a 600 Math score and get them interested in USNA.
 
A1Janitor said:
Does anyone talk about the lower SATs of whites that got in?
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By the way, to answer your somewhat insulting assertion, in just about 20 years of doing Senatorial/Congressional nomination interviews (many hundreds of candidates), I have NEVER personally seen someone with under a 600 Math score get a nomination and that does not matter their race. Although I know of some who have gotten in, they almost invariably have done so through the Prep programs or other nom sources such as athletics. I'm not saying it doesn't happen because I know that it does but again none that I've seen.
 
OldRetSWO said:
By the way, to answer your somewhat insulting assertion, in just about 20 years of doing Senatorial/Congressional nomination interviews (many hundreds of candidates), I have NEVER personally seen someone with under a 600 Math score get a nomination and that does not matter their race. Although I know of some who have gotten in, they almost invariably have done so through the Prep programs or other nom sources such as athletics. I'm not saying it doesn't happen because I know that it does but again none that I've seen.
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I am not sure what you are talking about.

My response was to OPs “If a candidate that is below the average on his SAT for USAFA, does he have a better chance than say a caucasian candidate?”

I am not disagreeing with anything you have said.

Edit: it actually seems to me like we agree.
 
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