Does Navy need to anticipate cannabis legalization and plan accordingly?

A6E Dad

A6E Dad

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Interesting Proceedings article linked below. With increasing likelihood of federal legalization, the Navy needs to plan now for what might happen. I'm sure there are strong feelings on this, but the reality is that the world is changing regarding this issue and the Armed Forces need to find the right policy.

talk amongst yourselves....

www.usni.org

The Navy Needs A Fully Baked Plan for Cannabis Legalization

Federal legalization of cannabis is coming. The Navy needs to be ready.
www.usni.org www.usni.org
 
Uhhh... they already have a policy. I don't anticipate that changing.
 
kinnem said:
Uhhh... they already have a policy. I don't anticipate that changing.
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for now, yeah
but what happens in a few years when it's fully legalized federally?

granted, the article was written by some JOs at PG school, but i'd be surprised is there were not significant changes to the current policy if/when it becomes legal nationally
 
Alcohol is fully legal federally, yet you can't drink on the job in the military, nor be under the influence. Cannabis is mox nix. This is the military's show and they can run it as they want. This is useless speculation.
 
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There are plenty of jobs where the legal status of alcohol is secondary to the higher standards of the position: airline pilot, surgeon, police and fire, etc so there's obviously no problem in staying the course. But there is room for discussing behavior on leave and how to handle any transition period where you're not under the influence but still show traces. Nothing will happen quickly.
 
i'm not advocating anything here (i'm actually not in favor), i just think this is an interesting issue and it WILL come up in the next few years, so i don't think it's useless speculation. and the military doesn't always get to run things they way it wants. i was around when 'don't ask don't tell' came down, and i remember how much pushback there was.

you're right, there are plenty of jobs that prohibit alcohol on the job, and rightly so. there is also a prohibition of alcohol aboard ship, 12 hrs prior to flying, etc and rightly so. there are rules in place that say when it is ok and when it's not.

i was shocked that this was already legal in Canada's armed forces, it looks like they've put a pretty detailed structure in place

DAOD 9004-1, Use of Cannabis by CAF Members - Canada.ca

Defence Administrative Orders and Directives - DAOD 9004-1 - Use of Cannabis by CAF Members
www.canada.ca www.canada.ca
 
There are a lot of legal issues with legalization. There is no question that use or impairment on the job will be prohibited, no different than alcohol. The problem is that current testing for cannabis is very different than alcohol. Alcohol level can be easily measured with BAC, and the testing is pretty real much real time. Cannabis remains in the system far longer than alcohol; you can tell that someone used, but not necessarily when or whether they are impaired.

Also, at least one state has tried to make it illegal to take adverse employment action against someone because they use marijuana recreationally. Thus,, zero tolerance policies are not permitted. (I believe that statute was put on hold for further evaluation - it has a very serious impact upon businesses that need zero tolerance for employee safety).
 
good points

the canadian model seems to take a conservative approach to how long the impairment lasts, and prohibits use for a period of time based on the activity:
8 hours from use to duty
24 hours from use to operating anything
28 days from use to flying, parachuting, etc
total prohibition during any deployment / operation etc

i wonder how in the world they hope to enforce that if you can't tell exactly when someone used it - seems like a nightmare

good point of the legality of zero tolerance rules. much easier to enforce when it's still federally illegal, even if legal in a state. once it's legal nationwide, much harder to prohibit legal activity on your own time, as long as it does't impact your work
 
I hope the law is allowed to stay safely behind the edge where science can confidently provide answers, but I fear cases will be pressed too hard and too soon and we'll be striking down all bans before sensible ones can be established. Here's hoping science can make some progress so that the law is presented with some more solid options before all heck breaks loose.
 
Military is governed by the UCMJ not “the law”. Adultery is not a federal crime so it is therefore “legal”. Except it’s prohibited by the UCMJ.
 
well yeah, of course UCMJ governs. the issue is that UCMJ prohibits scheduled substances. If cannabis is ever removed from the federal schedule, then UCMJ will need to be updated. when it's updated there is going to be a lot of discussion about what the policy should be
 
This is an interesting timeline in the link below. I recalled it was in the early 80s there was a rash of accidents in the Navy where marijuana/drug usage was deemed a contributing factor. It was indeed in 1981, aboard NIMITZ, when one of the biggies happened. Not long after that, the culture of the Navy started changing significantly. Regular drug testing, severe penalties, education, etc.


The Navy can be a very industrial environment, and personnel safety will be paramount.
 
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The Aerospace and Transportation Manufacturing Industries are required by federal law to incorporate "Drug Free Workplace" clauses
in their contracts and companies must go by them or be in breach of their contracts. This includes pre-employment drug screening
and can include periodic random drug testing. Employees or prospective employees who "pop positive" on tests will just about always
lose their jobs but from what I've seen, they are not typically turned over to law enforcement for prosecution. This is still the case where
it has been legalized within states and I expect that it will remain this way even if and when federal laws are relaxed.
.
If and when tests that show actual intoxication as opposed to use in the past 4-8 weeks become available, then both the Navy and
industries subject to Drug Free Workplace rules MIGHT shift over to those tests which would then "allow" use while on leave/vacation.
 
Don't count on legalization happening under a Republican President. And lets hope the military doesn't have to deal with a dumpster fire like that.
 
Issue is spot on!

Of import for this Forum target population is:

For “applicants” to SAs and ROTC, the Navy doesn’t have the authority to set the standards, it’s a DoD authority.

Navy will retain authority to waive and will be able to establish standard for Nay personnel.
 
Very interesting discussion. IMPO, the military is a job, and an employer may lawfully institute more stringent employment rules than the general public when they deem necessary. Will there be discussion...absolutely! I really believe that since it is a job, then an employer can and may institute a BAN, even if legalized, and just tell people If YOU want to serve here, don't do it", otherwise find a different career. Law Enforcement and First Responders (even in states where pot is legal are prohibited from use, and if caught are terminated, because it is a JOB) are doing it that way. Granted they may not be Federal Employees, but I cannot find any rationale legally why DOD and DHS and Justice will not just write into the regs and employment requirements that use of marijuana, although legal is not tolerated and if tested positive employees will be disciplined or terminated (maybe after multiple offenses).

Since this is a public discussion, IMHO it is not a good idea for someone driving a ship, flying an airplane, or carrying a weapon to be a user at any time. The psychological effects and aspects of prolonged "legal" use have not yet been determined and I would hate for one of my sons or their mates to be killed or injured because another in the same employment made a bad decision because of not thinking clearly or straight or was distracted by. JMHO...:) In almost EVERY state where pot has been legalized, anyone that purchases or has a user card is immediately notified they cannot carry a weapon legally at any time.
In the military and first responder professions, erring on the side of caution is probably the right decision. Hard to see how allowing military and first responders to consume a substance that a lot of things are not yet known about is the smart thing to do. Far better IMHO to just let people who wish to "partake" find a different career. It should be a choice, and if current members choose to leave because of it, then they should be granted release with full benefits if eligible without repercussions. I am just speaking from a prospective of both professions, and my experience is I would want someone with a hangover going on a stressful or dangerous mission with me. I know there will many other that disagree, and that is fine, this is just my personal opinion..:)
 
Let’s not even broach the topic of the (legal) drug alcohol then...easily the most abused substance in the DoN. We spend millions of $$$ each year in the Marine Corps alone on training, controlled usage, and rehab, lost 2 Marines last night to ARIs (alcohol related incidents). I’m not advocating for the legal usage of THC in the DoD, but let’s not go all “reefer madness” and kid ourselves about the negative effects of any number of substances in the DoD. I will say that we are running longitudinal studies on CBD within the VA right now...and some of my Marine vet buddies say it has saved their lives following PTSD diagnosis. I wouldn’t want to jump, dive, fly, or shoot “high” either....but to say it doesn’t happen hungover is a bit naive. Just presenting an alternative perspective.....
 
Impulsive said:
The psychological effects and aspects of prolonged "legal" use have not yet been determined
Hard to see how allowing military and first responders to consume a substance that a lot of things are not yet known about
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Hon, you may be new to the concept of cannabis, but it has been around and used for thousands of years! The above quoted comments are cracking me up to no end. 🤣

And as @Proud_Pops points out, yeah, alcohol. Alcohol is and has been a cornerstone of the military for as long as I can remember. Especially among the younger members.
 
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