Dropping AP Chem Spring Semester Senior Year?

ALF648

ALF648

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DS is taking 8 classes this year. He informed us last night that he is considering dropping AP Chem because the course load plus baseball ramping up will be a lot. We cautioned against this, because of potential signals it may send and the fact that SAs ask for completed transcripts.

His situation is this: Fulfilled all conditions for USMA LOA and waiting for the gears to turn. CPR at USNA with Senator and Representative's nominations. Seventh semester GPA ended up at 4.3. He has a full year of chemistry as a junior and a completed semester of AP Chem as a senior.

I think he's a little burned out from 2020 and I am sympathetic to the idea of a simpler senior spring. At the same time, we recognize that Chem is a core part of SAs curricula. Seeking perspectives from the collective wisdom of this group.

Thanks
 
Don’t think there’s any harm in lightening his load and enjoying his last semester of high school, pandemic notwithstanding. He won offer of appointment on the strength of his first six semesters. But is there another class he can drop instead? Not because dropping AP Chem will have any admissions repercussions — those with more intimate knowledge will surely correct me if I’m wrong — but because it’s great prep for what he’ll face at USNA.

Chem is a core plebe subject and it’s notorious for its unforgiving rigor. In fact, it’s called the “plebe killer.” DD aced regular Chem and AP Chem in high school. She validated Chem 1 at USNA. Instead of bumping her to Chem 2, the powers that be put her in Modern Chem. She struggled mightily! The topic was hard enough, but also on top of military obligations, her club sport team, and all the fun and games of plebe year — it was very tough.

Carrying a challenging load — whether or not it includes AP Chem — will make him that much better prepared for the rigors of plebe year and beyond.
 
My guess is he will do fine at USNA Chemistry. My DS earned an B in USNA Chemistry (2019/20). He had AP chemistry in HS his Sophomore year.
 
Additionally to what @MidCakePa posted, he would need to let his USNA (don’t know about USMA) admissions counselor know of this as his record would have been validated by his counselor including this as a full year course.
 
When the going gets tough the tough do what? I think the right answer is stick it out or drop basket weaving, that class that is just taking up time.
 
It's only a few more months. Stick it out. It will benefit him in the long run and make taking chemistry at the SA much easier and allow him more time to focus on the other tough classes on his schedule.
 
MidCakePa said:
Don’t think there’s any harm in lightening his load and enjoying his last semester of high school, pandemic notwithstanding. He won offer of appointment on the strength of his first six semesters. But is there another class he can drop instead? Not because dropping AP Chem will have any admissions repercussions — those with more intimate knowledge will surely correct me if I’m wrong — but because it’s great prep for what he’ll face at USNA.

Chem is a core plebe subject and it’s notorious for its unforgiving rigor. In fact, it’s called the “plebe killer.” DD aced regular Chem and AP Chem in high school. She validated Chem 1 at USNA. Instead of bumping her to Chem 2, the powers that be put her in Modern Chem. She struggled mightily! The topic was hard enough, but also on top of military obligations, her club sport team, and all the fun and games of plebe year — it was very tough.

Carrying a challenging load — whether or not it includes AP Chem — will make him that much better prepared for the rigors of plebe year and beyond.
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As a current 3/C, let me pile on MidCakePA's (and Skipper07's) truly excellent advice. Again, MidCakePA and Skipper07 imho, are both 1000% correct!

Like MidCake's DD, I too scored a 5 on the AP Exam in HS as well as a perfect 800 on the SAT Chemistry Subject Test. Like MidCake PA's DD, I too validated Chem 1 during the plebe summer exam and was placed into Modern Chem. I also validated (through AP's and USNA placement tests) over 15 other classes.

Not a flex in anyway - I bring it up to share that because of my valdiations, I've been taking some more advanced coursework since the beginning of Plebe A/C year.

That said, all plebe Chem -- and in particular Modern Chem -- during Plebe Year, was and continues to be, the single hardest class I've taken at USNA and the class I had to work the absolute hardest in to get an A. It was a really good class, fantastic teacher, but it was just really challenging, despite my strong Chem background. In some ways, it was more challenging than my USNA O-Chem course, especially when you layer on all of the Plebe-related activities your DS will have on his plate. This isn't just my perspective, but one shared by so many of my companymates and friends who are far smarter than me and who are actually Chem Majors gunning for a MedCorps billet. Again, the great news is that the USNA Chem Department is fantastic and the professors are truly worldclass, deeply invested in our success and very much want to be at USNA teaching undergrads. The downside is that it can be extremely challenging.

So at a high level, I totally agree that having your son lighten his load, especially if much of his instruction for Spring is online (which can be painful,) is a great idea.

But per MidCakePA and Skipper07's recommendations, I would absolutely counsel you to counsel your son to explore dropping another course if at all possible. Finishing AP Chem this year will yield him two tremendous benefits -- even if he doesn't sit for the actual AP Exam in May (its the USNA Chem placement test that will determine validation and at what level.) First, the material will be recent and top of mind when he sits down to test/validate Chem (whether at USNA or USMA) during Plebe Summer or Beast and secondly, he'll have at least had exposure at the AP Level, to the full breadth of the class/material which will be covered but at a much deeper level and faster pace at USNA. Seeing it for the first time would have in my opinion, made it even that much harder. Finally and importantly, please let your son know that it's not just the course per se that's challenging -- it's taking what most consider the hardest course while acclimating to the demands and constant time juggling of being a Plebe durnig the Academic Year

Hope this helps and wishing your son luck on his upcoming baseball season and final, senior semester! No matter what, I'm sure he'll be GREAT!
 
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Love this forum. Thanks to everyone for their thoughtful perspectives. I appreciate it greatly
 
20USNA23 said:
As a current 3/C, let me pile on MidCakePA's (and Skipper07's) truly excellent advice. Again, MidCakePA and Skipper07 imho, are both 1000% correct!

Like MidCake's DD, I too scored a 5 on the AP Exam in HS as well as a perfect 800 on the SAT Chemistry Subject Test. Like MidCake PA's DD, I too validated Chem 1 during the plebe summer exam and was placed into Modern Chem. I also validated (through AP's and USNA placement tests) over 15 other classes.

Not a flex in anyway - I bring it up to share that because of my valdiations, I've been taking some more advanced coursework since the beginning of Plebe A/C year.

That said, all plebe Chem -- and in particular Modern Chem -- during Plebe Year, was and continues to be, the single hardest class I've taken at USNA and the class I had to work the absolute hardest in to get an A. It was a really good class, fantastic teacher, but it was just really challenging, despite my strong Chem background. In some ways, it was more challenging than my USNA O-Chem course, especially when you layer on all of the Plebe-related activities your DS will have on his plate. This isn't just my perspective, but one shared by so many of my companymates and friends who are far smarter than me and who are actually Chem Majors gunning for a MedCorps billet. Again, the great news is that the USNA Chem Department is fantastic and the professors are truly worldclass, deeply invested in our success and very much want to be at USNA teaching undergrads. The downside is that it can be extremely challenging.

So at a high level, I totally agree that having your son lighten his load, especially if much of his instruction for Spring is online (which can be painful,) is a great idea.

But per MidCakePA and Skipper07's recommendations, I would absolutely counsel you to counsel your son to explore dropping another course if at all possible. Finishing AP Chem this year will yield him two tremendous benefits -- even if he doesn't sit for the actual AP Exam in May (its the USNA Chem placement test that will determine validation and at what level.) First, the material will be recent and top of mind when he sits down to test/validate Chem (whether at USNA or USMA) during Plebe Summer or Beast and secondly, he'll have at least had exposure at the AP Level, to the full breadth of the class/material which will be covered but at a much deeper level and faster pace at USNA. Seeing it for the first time would have in my opinion, made it even that much harder. Finally and importantly, please let your son know that it's not just the course per se that's challenging -- it's taking what most consider the hardest course while acclimating to the demands and constant time juggling of being a Plebe durnig the Academic Year

Hope this helps and wishing your son luck on his upcoming baseball season and final, senior semester! No matter what, I'm sure he'll be GREAT!
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This is tremendous advice, along with other experienced posters. HS students think they are busy, pressured now, working at max output. Plebe year, with all its accompanying duties and demands, plus loss of the much of the ability to control your own time, shocks plebes. The quality of the competition is akin to staring into a mirror, multiplied by 1000. There is a reason USNA Chem and Calc are known as “plebe-killers.” Every year, a percentage of the class fails Chem or Calc or both, and has to re-take it over the summer. Don’t assume it’s not the ace students from HS either.

Taking the AP Chem will smooth the path just as @20USNA23 described. Perhaps there is something else he could let go. Or he could just see this semester as good practice for juggling competing priorities, optimizing his time over several areas and learning to coach himself through it. Time management is a survival skill at all the SAs.
 
Adding just a little...even if he doesn’t “do well”, whatever that looks like for him personally, he will benefit.

I know how hard it is for seniors to keep the gas pedal on the floor, especially 2nd semester. I’m also of the opinion, that it’s important to really enjoy these last few months of their K-12 education, with relationships they have had most of their lives with friends. With all the celebrations of their accomplishments to occur. Some may disagree, but that’s my mom perspective (4 of my own, as well as 6 exchange students that a like my own) of many graduates. Child number 1? Took every AP exam offered. The rest enjoyed their moments a bit more.

I’m certainly not saying to throw caution to the wind. Rather, realizing that work/life balance is important. It’s another skill that must be honed, especially in a rigorous SA environment.

Every person is different. For certain, any/all exposure to AP Chem will benefit plebe year. But maybe instead of dropping it, he could reduce his expectations of performance in the class (is that a good way of saying ‘it’s ok to get a lower grade’?)? It depends On his goals. As stated above, if going to compete for a medical billet, that’s not a good approach. But if he is more on the ‘average Mid’ spectrum? It could be a way to manage this.
 
I am in a similar position as your DS. I have AICE Chemistry (similar to AP but that's besides the point). While two of my friends were home (one a plebe at USMA and the other a plebe at USNA). I questioned both of them about the topics covered in chemistry this semester at their respective academy, and the topics covered in my class were nearly identical to the ones in their classes. I found comfort that even though I was still taking a rigorous class my senior year, I would earn a large benefit if I am able to get an appointment. IMO stick it out. You will be glad you did. Best of luck to DS!
 
You stick it out for two reasons. First, having a strong chem background really, really helps with Plebe chem. You can do it without, but you're only making your plebe year more miserable. And you won't have the option of dropping chem as a plebe.

Second, and more importantly, it's good to start learning time management now. At USNA -- and later in the USN/USMC/civilian world -- you will find times when you literally have more to do than you can do at an above-average level. No matter how hard or long you work, there are too many competing demands. And zero that you can quit, ignore, blow off or even delay. You have to do them all and figure out how to get them all done.

One of the greatest skills you learn at USNA is how to balance those competing demands. How to prioritize. How to accept the fact that one or more things you do won't be at your normal excellent level. It is a critical life skill -- one that I use almost every week.

Starting to figure that out as a h.s. senior will help you along your journey at USNA and beyond. If you start now by "quitting" when the going gets rough, you're in for a rough life. Conversely, if you start managing your time and the demands on it, you will already be ahead in the game of life.
 
For any college applicant, I would think long and hard about dropping AP Chem during senior year.
Does this mean he has no science the second semester?
He is kind of saying "I can't do AP Chem (which is Chem 101 over a year, not a semester) and Baseball at the same time."
Guess what he will have to do in an SA or college (if he plays sports)? Both. Guess who his peers he is competing against in admissions are doing? Both.

If he has 4 years of science already...maybe consider it.
Is there any courses that are not math/english/science/history to drop instead? Are there any other ECs to drop instead? A job to drop?

In any case, he would have to notify admissions at any SA or University he is applying to.

He shoudl Read this book: How to Become a Straight-A Student: The Unconventional Strategies Real College Students Use to Score High While Studying Less by Cal Newport. It helps you with things like time management and how to figure out what to write about for a paper, etc.

He should also look into getting a tutor, extra AP Chem study books, going to teacher help hours, forming a study group.
 
At the very least I would discuss with admissions before dropping. A colleague's son was admitted to a top ten national university. He too wanted to drop a course in his second semester senior year (the second year of calculus) and was informed by admissions that his offer would be rescinded if he in fact dropped the course. So beware.
 
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