Dual Enrollment Question

turtle7584

turtle7584

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Jan 9, 2019
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Hello,

It's the time of year where students in my high school are beginning to select courses for next year. As a current junior, I am not sure if it would be easier to take AP Courses offered by my school that can ultimately be validated for my plebe year (if I am appointed) or if I should take the same courses offered at a community college. How does the USNA look at dual enrollment/community college classes?

Thank you!
 
turtle7584 said:
Hello,

It's the time of year where students in my high school are beginning to select courses for next year. As a current junior, I am not sure if it would be easier to take AP Courses offered by my school that can ultimately be validated for my plebe year (if I am appointed) or if I should take the same courses offered at a community college. How does the USNA look at dual enrollment/community college classes?

Thank you!
Click to expand...
Suggest approaching this from a different perspective: What can you do now to prepare for success AT the Academy? Whether a student takes AP or dual enrollment in high school does not guarantee that they will validate a class at the Academy. Scoring well on the validation exam during Plebe summer is the only way to do that.
 
Well, you won't get credit for college courses if that's what you mean. Whether you take AP or dual enrollment courses you will still need to test out of (validate) some courses. They may think successfully completing college STEM courses (vs AP) would be more indicative to how you would do at the academy, but that might well depend on the strength of the college. It's also just a surmise on my part.

It might also mean you'll need to have two transcripts sent each time a transcript is requested, depending on how your district handles that. A minor point but I'm all about attention to detail.
 
My comment has no bearing on admissions, only on what helps you when you are in. Kinnem is correct, you must test out to validate classes, nothing transfers. Working under the assumption you’re a rockstar academic and you have a great shot at appointment, the AP/college class gives you the opportunity to do the testing during Plebe summer. My advice is to load up on AP classes that you can validate. First, they are free. Why pay for classes at local CC/U?(Economics 101). Secondly, make sure they are subjects you can validate (Physics, Calculus, chemistry, Gov, History, Economics). Don’t waste your time on LA classes like Human Geography, Psychology, etc. you can’t validate. Our DS validated 24 hours and is on a different path than most Mids. Yes, his classes were more advanced his Plebe and Youngster year, but Trident Scholarships go to those that are ahead when they get there. Also, I’m convinced those Plebe subject classes are actually much harder than they need to be, so it’s wise not to sandbag testing. Validate what you can.
 
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Are your AP classes not also dual enrollment? And what do you mean by “easier?”

DS and I just had this convo last night (he has a specific question about taking EITHER AP Chem - having already taking advanced chem, OR AP Physics - after already taking
A first year of AP Physics). He emailed admissions at USNA and they answered quickly! So if you do have a specific question about what class will best prepare you for USNA, asking admissions is an option.

Anyone care to guess what USNA replied?? AP Chem for the win. I told him so, but he had to hear it for himself. Chem is one of the classes known as a ‘plebe killer’ your first year. Ultimately it will benefit him.
 
I agree with the comment that AP Chem is the best preparation, and that there’s no need to pay for a class when you can get it for free.

But also know that doing well on AP Chem won’t necessarily make life easier at USNA. My DD was a chem stud in high school, acing AP Chem. She validated Chem 1 at USNA and was bumped past Chem 2 and put into Modern Chem. It was a brutal beast and she worked her butt off to eek out a B. So if you’re like most mids, you’ll undergo a chem ordeal at USNA.
 
My DS is already taking AP Chem and AP physics and has received his appointment. Is it worth actually taking the AP exam if the class won't apply? I was going to do a search but taking the easy way out.
 
I believe so because it could be good prep for the validation test. And it would also be nice to have the college credit, in case Plan B comes into play. I know he has an appointment, but weird things happen.
 
DS choose to NOT take the AP exams, and instead
relaxed a little and had a really enjoyable senior year. His focus wasn’t/isn’t to be an academic all star. He was a 3 sport varsity athlete. So his senior year he chose to enjoy to its fullest. Plus they are expensive!

He also didn’t study to try and validate classes. He was fine with “C’s get degrees” at USNA. So it depends on the person.

Side note: he ended up on the Dants list, first semester plebe and an in-season varsity athlete. With high rankings in his company (whatever those numbers mean...). He is doing great. His roommate was exactly the opposite. Validated the most classes of all plebes. A crazy high number I don’t even recall. But all he does is academics. Not much peer or company interaction. So it completely depends on the person!
 
Hi! I have scoured the forums and the USNA course validation policy page for an answer to my question, but I haven't quite answered my question yet, so I'm hoping someone with experience can help. Here goes!

DS has been blessed with an appointment to USNA! His seventh semester classes are set, but he still has a decision to make as to whether or not to pay the extra money ($65/credit hour) to make some of his classes dual-enrollment for this semester. If he pays the tuition, he would get a transcript (actually two, since they're for two different universities) with college-level credit for those courses. He has done this for previous semesters, so he already has some college-level credit. The kicker is that each of the courses below (save one) also has an AP exam he will take.

Here's his schedule:
AP Calculus (also available as dual enrollment with a transcript from University of MO - St. Louis)
AP Literature (also available as dual enrollment with a transcript from St. Louis University)
AP Physics 2 (also available as dual enrollment with a transcript from University of MO - St. Louis)
AP US Government (also available as dual enrollment with a transcript from St. Louis University)
AP Statistics (also available as dual enrollment with a transcript from University of MO - St. Louis)
Theology (also available as dual enrollment with a transcript from St. Louis University)
Project Lead the Way Digital Electronics (no dual enrollment)

Since he will be taking the AP Exam for most of the classes above, is there any benefit to also paying to make those same classes dual enrollment? Other than being an insurance policy for credit at his Plan B school should something happen between now and I-Day, I am having a difficult time coming up with a reason to also do the dual enrollment. On the other hand, I'm hesitant for him to give up the opportunity for the college-level credit if there is some nuance or benefit we haven't thought of. For example, if for some reason his AP exam score is lower than listed on the course validation table, would the college credit for that same course allow him to take the validation exam?

I appreciate any experience or advice anyone has!

#GoNavy
 
whataluckymom said:
Hi! I have scoured the forums and the USNA course validation policy page for an answer to my question, but I haven't quite answered my question yet, so I'm hoping someone with experience can help. Here goes!

DS has been blessed with an appointment to USNA! His seventh semester classes are set, but he still has a decision to make as to whether or not to pay the extra money ($65/credit hour) to make some of his classes dual-enrollment for this semester. If he pays the tuition, he would get a transcript (actually two, since they're for two different universities) with college-level credit for those courses. He has done this for previous semesters, so he already has some college-level credit. The kicker is that each of the courses below (save one) also has an AP exam he will take.

Here's his schedule:
AP Calculus (also available as dual enrollment with a transcript from University of MO - St. Louis)
AP Literature (also available as dual enrollment with a transcript from St. Louis University)
AP Physics 2 (also available as dual enrollment with a transcript from University of MO - St. Louis)
AP US Government (also available as dual enrollment with a transcript from St. Louis University)
AP Statistics (also available as dual enrollment with a transcript from University of MO - St. Louis)
Theology (also available as dual enrollment with a transcript from St. Louis University)
Project Lead the Way Digital Electronics (no dual enrollment)

Since he will be taking the AP Exam for most of the classes above, is there any benefit to also paying to make those same classes dual enrollment? Other than being an insurance policy for credit at his Plan B school should something happen between now and I-Day, I am having a difficult time coming up with a reason to also do the dual enrollment. On the other hand, I'm hesitant for him to give up the opportunity for the college-level credit if there is some nuance or benefit we haven't thought of. For example, if for some reason his AP exam score is lower than listed on the course validation table, would the college credit for that same course allow him to take the validation exam?

I appreciate any experience or advice anyone has!

#GoNavy
Click to expand...

He has an appointment. I don’t think USNA will care, unless he starts tanking his grades.

I believe everyone takes the validation exams during PS. I don’t believe HS transcripts or dual enrollment credits are factored in. His scores on those exams will either validate a class or place him in the correct section. The validations can free up room in the matrix for dual major, a minor, more electives or a slightly less packed schedule.
 
whataluckymom said:
Hi! I have scoured the forums and the USNA course validation policy page for an answer to my question, but I haven't quite answered my question yet, so I'm hoping someone with experience can help. Here goes!

DS has been blessed with an appointment to USNA! His seventh semester classes are set, but he still has a decision to make as to whether or not to pay the extra money ($65/credit hour) to make some of his classes dual-enrollment for this semester. If he pays the tuition, he would get a transcript (actually two, since they're for two different universities) with college-level credit for those courses. He has done this for previous semesters, so he already has some college-level credit. The kicker is that each of the courses below (save one) also has an AP exam he will take.

Here's his schedule:
AP Calculus (also available as dual enrollment with a transcript from University of MO - St. Louis)
AP Literature (also available as dual enrollment with a transcript from St. Louis University)
AP Physics 2 (also available as dual enrollment with a transcript from University of MO - St. Louis)
AP US Government (also available as dual enrollment with a transcript from St. Louis University)
AP Statistics (also available as dual enrollment with a transcript from University of MO - St. Louis)
Theology (also available as dual enrollment with a transcript from St. Louis University)
Project Lead the Way Digital Electronics (no dual enrollment)

Since he will be taking the AP Exam for most of the classes above, is there any benefit to also paying to make those same classes dual enrollment? Other than being an insurance policy for credit at his Plan B school should something happen between now and I-Day, I am having a difficult time coming up with a reason to also do the dual enrollment. On the other hand, I'm hesitant for him to give up the opportunity for the college-level credit if there is some nuance or benefit we haven't thought of. For example, if for some reason his AP exam score is lower than listed on the course validation table, would the college credit for that same course allow him to take the validation exam?

I appreciate any experience or advice anyone has!

#GoNavy
Click to expand...

I would for sure go to the dual enrollment route. A college credit in hand is a college credit in hand! if your son wants to pursue a masters degree during/after his military service at a civilian college then he will have a transcript to bring in with him. I prefer dual enrollment over AP courses any day of the week! Plus colleges would have different standards for what AP score they would accept & give credit for 👌
 
Have a look at the source. Here is the validation criteria for USNA. AP scores play a big role in validation of some courses. Validation should not be the driver, in my opinion, but success at the Academy and beyond--as has been previously mentioned.

www.usna.edu

USNA Course Validation Policy

Course Validation Policy page for Academics at USNA.edu. Updated Tue Sep 05 07:55:06 EDT 2023.
www.usna.edu
 
Some thoughts in general (not SA specific)about AP vs DE:

AP vs DE

AP

  • AP tests are well known nationally and are uniform across the nation
  • You can look on any college’s website and see what credit you will get for what scores on the AP tests
  • AP Courses are given at your High School
  • AP courses generally are more spread out...e.g., AP Calc AB = Calc 1 is given over a year, not a semester.
DE
  • There are more of a variety of DE courses available at a CC
  • DE courses will count for your college GPA…make sure to do well.
  • Private and Out of State Colleges may or may not give you credit. They may not give credit for courses taken to fulfill HS requirements. You do not know what credit you can get ahead of time.
  • Public In-state schools will give you credit for DE courses. You may be able to get up to 2 years of credits.
  • DE classes may be taken at the local Community College…how will transportation work?
  • For DE classes, the “grade” doesn’t rely on one test on one day but over a whole semester.
  • DE Courses may be more condensed...e.g., Chem 101 is over one semester, not a year.

So think about your Plan A but also your plan B if you don't get into an SA.
 
Thanks for the info, @bopper, those are all good points! At the school my DS goes to, a few interesting facts:
  • For the schedule mentioned above for DS, he will take the AP exam for the classes it's offered in (in some courses, his school even requires it)
  • The classes for dual-enrollment are taught at his high school, not at a community college. I know this isn't the case everywhere, but we're blessed he doesn't have to travel to a CC for those courses!
  • He doesn't have to choose between AP and Dual Enrollment for his classes - it's the same class, given by the same professor at the high school at the same time/day/room. All students will take the AP exam associated with the class. The only difference is whether or not the students choose to pay the extra tuition in order to also get a college transcript for a class they're already taking. So one student could walk away from the class with only taking the AP exam, and the kid sitting beside him in class walks away with the AP and a college transcript.
When our DD was in high school, she decided to take both the AP and the DE college credit because we didn't know where she would go to college until second semester of her senior year. We figured it was a good insurance policy just in case she decided on a school that would accept AP and/or DE. Luckily for us, she ended up with 42 hours of incoming credit at an out-of-state public school, most of which applied to her degree requirements. It has allowed her to get a second bachelor's degree and still graduate in four years. Had she decided to go to the private school on her list of possible colleges, the outcome wouldn't have been as rosy, as, like you mentioned, private schools tend to have stricter policies.

DS has his appointment, but as I've read on this forum a thousand times, nothing is guaranteed until he's taking the oath on I-Day, so we'll keep Plan B in our pocket and go for the dual enrollment along with the AP! It will come in handy if, God forbid, something happens between now and June 25th. He may even decide not to validate many courses at USNA so as not to put too much pressure on himself during Plebe Year - but that's for him and his advisor to work out. I know they'll guide him to the best path - it's what they do!
 
navymom17540 said:
My DS is already taking AP Chem and AP physics and has received his appointment. Is it worth actually taking the AP exam if the class won't apply? I was going to do a search but taking the easy way out.
Click to expand...
My DS is also in AP Chem and AP physics and received and accepted his appointment. Since we already paid for the tests. He WILL be taking them.
 
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