ED to Dartmouth/Finance Career After USNA?

kyboymom said:
It is hard to say. I will say that my DS (now a youngster at USNA) had a similar issue with Vanderbilt. He did not want to go ED because he wanted to wait for USNA but he knew that his chances were significantly higher going ED and we were going round and round with admissions - they were actually very nice and were close to them agreeing that he basically sign an ED form that that he would attend if accepted - with the exception for being accepted to USNA. It was during these discussions that DS received his LOA so he decided not to pursue the Vanderbilt ED route so I can't tell you how it ultimately would have worked out. We also had a large state school agree to hold his NM scholarship until after plebe summer (he was supposed to accept by May 1 and they agreed to hold until August 15) so long as we affirmatively notified them by August 15. A couple of caveats - this was spring/summer of 2020 and covid was wreaking havoc with seniors, admissions, etc. and we were very nervous about what might happen to DS if he contracted covid before or during plebe summer so we were attempting to keep plans b, c and d open and we were honest about that with both admissions offices. All that is to say that DS found the admissions departments to be very receptive and understanding when we explained that the only hold out was USNA. In fact, the state school that held his scholarship actually sent him a note after we told them that he was staying at USNA thanking him for his service. Those with Dartmouth specific admission experience may know better. Either way the best of luck to you - you have exciting times ahead!
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That’s amazing to hear! I’m glad everything worked out for him. Thankfully there is an admission counselor at my school with very, very good relations with Dartmouth. I scheduled a meeting with him today to talk about my issue and talk to Dartmouth directly if we need to.
 
Some food for thought for you although my USNA experience is very dated at this point.

I've been on Wall Street for 35 years. I knew out of HS that I was interested in financial markets, but wanted the challenge of USNA. Was an econ major (as that was as close as I could come), but at the end of youngster year I felt like the econ program wasn't giving me enough. I separated and finished my undergrad as a finance major at a strong UG business school and then was lucky enough to get into Wharton immediately after undergrad for my MBA.

It's a much different experience coming to the street as a 22 year old analyst right out of Dartmouth versus being a 30 year old associate coming off your service commitment and a top tier MBA program. Traditional bulge bracket analyst program is a grind (you can read the stories) but after two years, you have a number of options open to you at a relatively young age. Associate programs are slightly better than the analyst, but not by much. I did see a couple of the ex-officers in my associate class have some issues with the lack of responsibility/"scut work" as a 1st/2nd year associate.

Another thing you need to consider is the cost of the MBA program. Not sure what your family's financial situation is, but my hunch is that you would get some help with your undergrad at Dartmouth, maybe not so much for B-School. By the time you're ready to go to B-school, a top tier MBA is likely to cost over $250k. That's a lot of $.
 
i_like_planes said:
I definitely want to be in the Navy above doing something in finance but I just want to make sure I can still have a successful career
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First, do not apply ED anywhere if you want to go to USNA. ED means a commitment to the school and dropping all other applications if accepted. There is no Service Academy exception. (My personal view is way too many people, ( including my own daughter) play the ED game, trying to get into a reach school by applying ED.

Second, nobody at 18 years old knows whether they are going to have a successful Navy career. In fact, many don't know until the day they retire -- each assignment has its growing responsibility and pros/cons. Someday you wake up at 20+ years and say, wow...I never really knew if I was going to make it a career . As a BGO, all I look for is the commitment to keep an open mind, and strong desire to serve for that initial commitment. (Face it, the Navy /Marine Corps needs a whole lot more LT's/Captains than they need Admirals) .

Finally, to go anywhere in finance these days, an MBA is important. I am a strong believer in the benefit of serving in the Military, or at least holding a job for a few years before going to grad school. The maturity and real world experience is important, as is the ability to lead and manage people. I got out after 7 years and went to law school. I've worked with finance people of all levels, and there is nothing worse than the know it all 24 year old, fresh out of MBA school , who can spout off a bunch of big MBA words but really doesn't have any practical knowledge or know how to deal with people. (Well, maybe one thing worse is the young lawyer with same background :)).

Bottom line, you will never regret serving in the Navy or Marines Corps. You may serve 5 or 30. If you get out at 5, you will be more than qualified to apply to grad school, and will come out better at whatever you chose to do because of your service.

Good luck.
 
I'm doing ED to Cornell and waiting to hear back from AROTC and also applying to USNA. At the end of the day its the same commission. I got an email from Cornell rotc saying they would still let me go to a service academy if I get admitted ED but decide not to go, but its probably bull****. Cant go wrong with either option bro. Don't stress it, you'll be happy either way.
 
You may think it obvious but I did not really see in your OP any indication of wanting to serve your country in the US military. or possibly in combat.

You want a certain type of life style and a certain type of campus and you want to fly and you are rightly concerned about your career after AD.

If you were my GS I’d ask where do you want to be in university next year?

If it’s a SA then the decision should be simple. No ED. If they are not sure then I’d suggest the SA may not be for them.

And if they apply and can’t get in any SA then I’d tell to take their chances with the regular students during the regular admissions period at the civilian uni.



But if a SA and being a pilot on AD in the military was their goal I’d wonder why on earth they not applying to Army and AF as well as USNA?

Picking a SA and being a pilot may mean flying into hot LZs in your future. I’d consider how that might mix with what may be your main desire ——- a well earning job on Wall Street.
 
Old Navy BGO said:
First, do not apply ED anywhere if you want to go to USNA. ED means a commitment to the school and dropping all other applications if accepted. There is no Service Academy exception. (My personal view is way too many people, ( including my own daughter) play the ED game, trying to get into a reach school by applying ED.

Second, nobody at 18 years old knows whether they are going to have a successful Navy career. In fact, many don't know until the day they retire -- each assignment has its growing responsibility and pros/cons. Someday you wake up at 20+ years and say, wow...I never really knew if I was going to make it a career . As a BGO, all I look for is the commitment to keep an open mind, and strong desire to serve for that initial commitment. (Face it, the Navy /Marine Corps needs a whole lot more LT's/Captains than they need Admirals) .

Finally, to go anywhere in finance these days, an MBA is important. I am a strong believer in the benefit of serving in the Military, or at least holding a job for a few years before going to grad school. The maturity and real world experience is important, as is the ability to lead and manage people. I got out after 7 years and went to law school. I've worked with finance people of all levels, and there is nothing worse than the know it all 24 year old, fresh out of MBA school , who can spout off a bunch of big MBA words but really doesn't have any practical knowledge or know how to deal with people. (Well, maybe one thing worse is the young lawyer with same background :)).

Bottom line, you will never regret serving in the Navy or Marines Corps. You may serve 5 or 30. If you get out at 5, you will be more than qualified to apply to grad school, and will come out better at whatever you chose to do because of your service.

Good luck.
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Thanks for saying this. It's good to know that people like the previous experience with working with other like in the Navy. My mom once new a guy who flew helicopters in the Army, got out, went into the finance world pretty "late", and was able to start his own hedge fund. Now the guy is close to, if not already a billionaire (that would be nice).
 
volsfan3133 said:
I'm doing ED to Cornell and waiting to hear back from AROTC and also applying to USNA. At the end of the day its the same commission. I got an email from Cornell rotc saying they would still let me go to a service academy if I get admitted ED but decide not to go, but its probably bull****. Cant go wrong with either option bro. Don't stress it, you'll be happy either way.
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I'm glad they gave that to you, hopefully everything works out. I think I'm close to making my decision right now but yeah, the goal is commissioning as an officer which will happen either way.
 
Small Team Bacsi said:
You may think it obvious but I did not really see in your OP any indication of wanting to serve your country in the US military. or possibly in combat.

You want a certain type of life style and a certain type of campus and you want to fly and you are rightly concerned about your career after AD.

If you were my GS I’d ask where do you want to be in university next year?

If it’s a SA then the decision should be simple. No ED. If they are not sure then I’d suggest the SA may not be for them.

And if they apply and can’t get in any SA then I’d tell to take their chances with the regular students during the regular admissions period at the civilian uni.



But if a SA and being a pilot on AD in the military was their goal I’d wonder why on earth they not applying to Army and AF as well as USNA?

Picking a SA and being a pilot may mean flying into hot LZs in your future. I’d consider how that might mix with what may be your main desire ——- a well earning job on Wall Street.
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Thanks for pointing this out. I forgot to say it before but serving in general is the #1 goal for me. However, I would also like to combine this with something that I've had a passion for, for as long as I can remember which is aviation (specifically jets). I've done a lot of thinking and talking to counselors and I think I will not be applying ED
 
Never shut down an option that you do not have to, especially after putting in all the work for your USNA application. If you get into ED Dartmouth and USNA that is an opportunity that you will very likely never get again. Keep your options open and you always have the opportunity to pursue graduate education.

At the end of the day your undergraduate degree is not indicative of the success or opportunities you will have in a certain field. Most of the people I know who are thriving in finance went to their local school to save money and then went on to a solid graduate school or just performed well at their job. No matter where you go to school, your performance at your job will trump what name is on the top of that piece of paper in my opinion.
 
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Although this is USAFA, watch the ZoomieBrief on Life After the Uniform: Finance - it's great!
The one on brand management is also excellent.

usafa.org
ZoomieBrief (not ZoomieLink) on left bar
 
After listening to everything you all had to say and having long conversations with two of my school college counselors, I've decided to not ED to Dartmouth and pull the trigger on a non-binding Georgetown EA application (a very close third choice school). To make this even better, one of the counselors who has a very good relationship with Dartmouth said that he can contact the head of the Dartmouth legacy department and one of the trustees in order for us to talk to them about why I didn't ED. My counselor said that this can probably get them to look at me as though I am applying ED or at least get me very close to an ED standing even during regular decisions. Thank you to everyone who helped!
 
i_like_planes said:
After listening to everything you all had to say and having long conversations with two of my school college counselors, I've decided to not ED to Dartmouth and pull the trigger on a non-binding Georgetown EA application (a very close third choice school). To make this even better, one of the counselors who has a very good relationship with Dartmouth said that he can contact the head of the Dartmouth legacy department and one of the trustees in order for us to talk to them about why I didn't ED. My counselor said that this can probably get them to look at me as though I am applying ED or at least get me very close to an ED standing even during regular decisions. Thank you to everyone who helped!
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Did you realize Georgetown University is part of the GWU (host school) NROTC unit, what is called a cross-town affiliate? It’s not even that far “cross-town.”

nrotc.gwu.edu

Program Overview | GW Naval Reserve Officer Training Corps | The George Washington University

The GWUNROTC Unit is a consortium of four schools across the DC area: The Catholic University of America, Georgetown University,
nrotc.gwu.edu nrotc.gwu.edu
 
Capt MJ said:
Did you realize Georgetown University is part of the GWU (host school) NROTC unit, what is called a cross-town affiliate? It’s not even that far “cross-town.”

nrotc.gwu.edu

Program Overview | GW Naval Reserve Officer Training Corps | The George Washington University

The GWUNROTC Unit is a consortium of four schools across the DC area: The Catholic University of America, Georgetown University,
nrotc.gwu.edu nrotc.gwu.edu
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I actually just figured that out a few hours ago. When I was looking on the Georgetown website a few days ago I only saw stuff about Army ROTC. After a bit more research today I did find about NROTC at GW (My fault. I definitely should've spent a little more time on that). I will definitely be applying for NROTC.
 
i_like_planes said:
Well not exactly. I definitely want to be in the Navy above doing something in finance but I just want to make sure I can still have a successful career afterwards. Is it a big deal If I start the race a little behind and am a few years older than everyone else? As for not going the pilot route, that's what I've wanted to do all my life and I don't think anything can stray me from that path.
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I see that you have greater leaning towards Dartmouth despite your admiration for Annapolis. If seeking prestige you’ll get plenty of it at Dartmouth.

Frankly, you have better chance to Dartmouth than Annapolis and you will always live with what if if you didn’t apply to Dartmouth. So hit that ED to Dartmouth and don’t look back. If you get in great. If you don’t great. You can then pray you get into Annapolis.

At the moment you have no guarantee from neither so don’t fall in love with neither institutions until you know you’re chosen.

Be sure to have a good backup. If good fortune takes you to Hanover, and you have second thoughts after 1 semester then apply to Annapolis. If you get in you can decide to enroll or continue at Dartmouth via NROTC or OCS if Navy is still what you want and not the Frat life. Either way you win! Worst case, you get neither. But that’s 92% of the applicants to Annapolis and Dartmouth. Only few get in anyway.

You might actually not fit into Annapolis given your dilemma. Annapolis is a place you go without second thoughts. You actually might regret being there and not want Navy to be your profession after the Plebe year. So go and follow your legacy and go to Hanover if they take you!

You like planes, have you flown a plane? You might not like flying after actually flying. You might get air sick, g-Force might be uncomfortable, memorizing might not be your thing. As for Finance you might hate that too. Most leave Goldman and Morgan Stanley after 2 years and move on. Many don’t like to work 100 hours a week. Working for McKinsey and Bain are no different. So don’t bet your life on finance when you don’t know finance yet.

It is good to dream big 5-10 years but the most important thing for you now is to get in first. Then perform academically and in all other areas. And then serve 5 and dive or stay in the fleet. I hope you made up your mind today!
 
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"Yes Buffy, it was tough deciding on which institution I would list as my safety school. (Dartmouth-USNA - USNA-Dartmouth) Why must life be so difficult, right? Anyway, the far easier decision was naming Georgetown as my third choice. Jeeves, another Brandy, please."

Undoubtedly a conversation with faithful wife Buffy in the well-adorned study after a long and satisfying career making millions on Wall Street.
 
Devil Doc said:
"Yes Buffy, it was tough deciding on which institution I would list as my safety school. (Dartmouth-USNA - USNA-Dartmouth) Why must life be so difficult, right? Anyway, the far easier decision was naming Georgetown as my third choice. Jeeves, another Brandy, please."

Undoubtedly a conversation with faithful wife Buffy in the well-adorned study after a long and satisfying career making millions on Wall Street.
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Boy that sounds nice. USNA and Dartmouth as a safety and make millions. That’s definitely not me
 
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