ED to Dartmouth/Finance Career After USNA?

[i_like_planes]

As you can tell from the title, I am pretty torn right now on what I should do. I have submitted my USNA application over a month ago and have my Dartmouth ED application one click away from being submitted however I'm very torn over whether I should submit it or not. USNA is my top school by a good margin but there is still a pretty big issue.

My college counselor has told me many times that she thinks I have a very good shot of getting into Dartmouth if I ED but not so much if I apply regular decision. My dad went there and I have a sibling there currently so I have the legacy and I also have the grades, high level classes, SAT scores, ECs, and essays to back that up. The issue for me is that I'm not very confident about getting into USNA and I would like to have a fallback (Dartmouth ED). However, if I get in by ED I automatically can't go to USNA, but if I don't get into USNA and apply Dartmouth regularly, I'm not very confident about getting into Dartmouth either, leaving me with having to go to one of my lower choice schools (no shade to those schools). I hope that makes sense for you all. I'll list some other reasons for each school down below.

USNA

• I love the challenge of a regimented life and I've heard from multiple plebes from my town USNA has pushed them to work harder than they ever thought they could
• Fasted way to becoming a Navy officer/pilot (Dartmouth doesn't have NROTC)
• Only a few hour train ride away
• Absolutely gorgeous campus and area
• I would like to be immersed into the military lifestyle
• Good engineering/mathematics programs

Dartmouth

• Family there
• I also love the campus
• Be able to experience the "true college lifestyle"
• Good connections and internships for a career in finance

Now onto my second question. How realistic is it to go into a career in finance after USNA and 10+ years in the Navy (assuming I major in something like mathematics or mathematics w/ economics)?

Thank you in advance!

 

[MidCakePa]

Your last question first: It’s very possible to go into a finance career after AD. In my MBA class at a top-five program, there were numerous veterans pursing a finance career. In my corporate life, I worked with a USNA grad who went subs before pursuing a finance career. After 10 years of AD, your major doesn’t matter much when moving into business. Your leadership experience counts for much more, and you should probably expect to get an MBA if you seek a senior management position in corporate finance or investment banking.

As for your question regarding Early Decision, the requirement is very clear: If you get accepted, you must go there. So unless Dartmouth is truly your first choice, don’t apply ED. Some here will tell you it’s OK — that ED commitments don’t apply to SA applicants. That’s bunk! It’s how some people try to rationalize their choice to have their cake and eat it too. When applying ED, you’re making a commitment. By reneging on that commitment to attend an SA, you’re essentially committing the honor code you’re about to pledge when attending the SA. It’s certainly an ethical issue, but not a true dilemma in my mind. As an aspiring midshipman and officer, donthe right thing.

 

[ASKMEAGAINDAD]

so the choice is... Finance or Navy.

Seems you should wait. If Navy is something you want to do and they don't have NROTC.

Given your background wouldn't you still be pretty competitive in the RD pool at Dartmouth?

It is realistic to compete in finance but realize you will be ahead and also behind. Pure tech analysis doesn't need leaders per se.
I feel my 4 years of active duty didn't really hinder me as I started MBA right around the same time as my peers.

Your basically starting a race a little late- but can you win, yes.

BTW finance is pretty broad. Corp finance very different than IB.
Do you want to be a analyst- you will be older than your peers.
People your age will have more experience in your field by 6 years. (depending on what you do for hobbies)
Middle ground could be not do the Pilot option.

Good luck.

 

[Capt MJ]

Look at it from the perspective of Older You looking back. If going to Dartmouth has some meaning to you for family and other reasons, hold a place in your graduate education plans for it. Once you complete the required years of service, and if you decide to separate, you can then use your generous Post-9/11 GI Education Bill Veterans’ benefits to attend the Tuck School of Business. Dartmouth also participates in the Yellow Ribbon program. Do some Google research on “Post-9/11 GI Bill veterans education benefits” and “VA Yellow Ribbon Program.” Enjoy the link below.

Military Veterans

The Tuck School of Business at Dartmouth

www.tuck.dartmouth.edu

Now, turn your mind to Navy paths. If your main goal is to gain a commission as an active duty Navy or Marine Corps officer. USNA is a waystation to that, and it is apparently your preferred one. If you want to experience the challenge of a service academy, go for it. Keeping in mind the goal is a commission, build out alternate plans for colleges with NROTC programs.

The long pole in the tent here is if your prime goal is to serve as a commissioned officer. If it is, you do what it takes to accomplish that. Try for USNA or NROTC college.

If you have to check the Dartmouth block somehow, consider building it in as a grad school option as noted above. Or, go to Dartmouth undergrad and try for Navy OCS afterwards. OCS is also highly competitive. Do your Google research there.

 

[99Gold]

Regarding finance. My dh went to Harvard Business School and now works in finance after getting out of the Army. He thinks that he only got in because of his USMA degree and his Army aviation experience. Now, a Dartmouth degree could get you the same place but going to USNA and serving in the Navy would not bar you in any way from a finance career.

 

[i_like_planes]

Your last question first: It’s very possible to go into a finance career after AD. In my MBA class at a top-five program, there were numerous veterans pursing a finance career. In my corporate life, I worked with a USNA grad who went subs before pursuing a finance career. After 10 years of AD, your major doesn’t matter much when moving into business. Your leadership experience counts for much more, and you should probably expect to get an MBA if you seek a senior management position in corporate finance or investment banking.

As for your question regarding Early Decision, the requirement is very clear: If you get accepted, you must go there. So unless Dartmouth is truly your first choice, don’t apply ED. Some here will tell you it’s OK — that ED commitments don’t apply to SA applicants. That’s bunk! It’s how some people try to rationalize their choice to have their cake and eat it too. When applying ED, you’re making a commitment. By reneging on that commitment to attend an SA, you’re essentially committing the honor code you’re about to pledge when attending the SA. It’s certainly an ethical issue, but not a true dilemma in my mind. As an aspiring midshipman and officer, donthe right thing.

Thanks for the advice. If only the ED agreement could be voided by SAs. USNA is my first choice but I still have some thinking to do.

 

[Dr. Strange Love]

.
Submit the ED application … push the button …. We’re just doin a lot of Him-Haw’n about What-ifs at this stage. You don’t have any decisions right now.

Come on back to this thread if and when you get an early acceptance to Dartmouth.
.

 

[i_like_planes]

so the choice is... Finance or Navy.

Seems you should wait. If Navy is something you want to do and they don't have NROTC.

Given your background wouldn't you still be pretty competitive in the RD pool at Dartmouth?

It is realistic to compete in finance but realize you will be ahead and also behind. Pure tech analysis doesn't need leaders per se.
I feel my 4 years of active duty didn't really hinder me as I started MBA right around the same time as my peers.

Your basically starting a race a little late- but can you win, yes.

BTW finance is pretty broad. Corp finance very different than IB.
Do you want to be a analyst- you will be older than your peers.
People your age will have more experience in your field by 6 years. (depending on what you do for hobbies)
Middle ground could be not do the Pilot option.

Good luck.

Well not exactly. I definitely want to be in the Navy above doing something in finance but I just want to make sure I can still have a successful career afterwards. Is it a big deal If I start the race a little behind and am a few years older than everyone else? As for not going the pilot route, that's what I've wanted to do all my life and I don't think anything can stray me from that path.

 

[ders_dad]

Being a “legacy” at Dartmouth may give you some leverage in RD. You have great choices-but in your situation they seem to suck. My DS rerèrrr
had grades, SAT (1590) etc. for any Ivy but could not ED because he wanted to go USNA. He was not accepted to any of his top RD schools - including Notre Dame, Northwestern, and Michigan -all regular admissions. ED is REALLY important at top schools if you don’t have something other than academics to be attractive to them. They need your love. They need to make sure they fill their class early (so I learned). Long-winded way of saying that you are correct in being concerned that if you don’t put Dartmouth as ED, you have a high risk of not being accepted, no matter your grades or SAT. Tough decision. Gut check time.

 

[i_like_planes]

Look at it from the perspective of Older You looking back. If going to Dartmouth has some meaning to you for family and other reasons, hold a place in your graduate education plans for it. Once you complete the required years of service, and if you decide to separate, you can then use your generous Post-9/11 GI Education Bill Veterans’ benefits to attend the Tuck School of Business. Dartmouth also participates in the Yellow Ribbon program. Do some Google research on “Post-9/11 GI Bill veterans education benefits” and “VA Yellow Ribbon Program.” Enjoy the link below.

Military Veterans

The Tuck School of Business at Dartmouth

www.tuck.dartmouth.edu

Now, turn your mind to Navy paths. If your main goal is to gain a commission as an active duty Navy or Marine Corps officer. USNA is a waystation to that, and it is apparently your preferred one. If you want to experience the challenge of a service academy, go for it. Keeping in mind the goal is a commission, build out alternate plans for colleges with NROTC programs.

The long pole in the tent here is if your prime goal is to serve as a commissioned officer. If it is, you do what it takes to accomplish that. Try for USNA or NROTC college.

If you have to check the Dartmouth block somehow, consider building it in as a grad school option as noted above. Or, go to Dartmouth undergrad and try for Navy OCS afterwards. OCS is also highly competitive. Do your Google research there.

Thanks for the input. I'll definitely look into Tuck and other graduate programs. I've looked but none of my top choice schools have NROTC which really sucks. How competitive is getting into OCS compared to USNA?

 

[ders_dad]

Just wanted to add one other thing that others are saying to you - an SA can be a great entree to a finance career. My cousin’s husband went West Point, did his 5 years, went to London School of Economics, and made a bunch of money in financial world.

 

[i_like_planes]

.
Submit the ED application … push the button …. We’re just doin a lot of Him-Haw’n about What-ifs at this stage. You don’t have any decisions right now.

Come on back to this thread if and when you get an early acceptance to Dartmouth.
.

Why do you say that?

 

[i_like_planes]

Regarding finance. My dh went to Harvard Business School and now works in finance after getting out of the Army. He thinks that he only got in because of his USMA degree and his Army aviation experience. Now, a Dartmouth degree could get you the same place but going to USNA and serving in the Navy would not bar you in any way from a finance career.

Just wanted to add one other thing that others are saying to you - an SA can be a great entree to a finance career. My cousin’s husband went West Point, did his 5 years, went to London School of Economics, and made a bunch of money in financial world.

Thanks for that. That's good to know that I can still be successful in that world even if I start late.

 

[i_like_planes]

Being a “legacy” at Dartmouth may give you some leverage in RD. You have great choices-but in your situation they seem to suck. My DS rerèrrr
had grades, SAT (1590) etc. for any Ivy but could not ED because he wanted to go USNA. He was not accepted to any of his top RD schools - including Notre Dame, Northwestern, and Michigan -all regular admissions. ED is REALLY important at top schools if you don’t have something other than academics to be attractive to them. They need your love. They need to make sure they fill their class early (so I learned). Long-winded way of saying that you are correct in being concerned that if you don’t put Dartmouth as ED, you have a high risk of not being accepted, no matter your grades or SAT. Tough decision. Gut check time.

I'm gonna be doing a lot of thinking for the next 15 hours.

 

[i_like_planes]

Here's another question for everyone. Would it be a viable plan to apply ED to Dartmouth, get in, and then reapply to USNA next year? And then if I don't get into Dartmouth then oh well, I tried.

 

[Capt MJ]

Thanks for the input. I'll definitely look into Tuck and other graduate programs. I've looked but none of my top choice schools have NROTC which really sucks. How competitive is getting into OCS compared to USNA?

OCS will depend on the needs of the Navy at that time. It is designed to handle the intake differential from USNA, NROTC and other commissioning sources to make up the annual production of incoming Navy officers needed. The Navy can cherry pick exactly who it wants, until it makes its target intake range. One really great thing about OCS - officer candidates come in knowing what officer community they are going into, surface warfare, aviation, submarines, etc. OCS is highly competitive in a different way.

If this is your long pole in the tent, then you create plans targeting:

“As for not going the pilot route, that's what I've wanted to do all my life and I don't think anything can stray me from that path.”

By choosing schools without NROTC (arguably the route that offers a “normal college experience”), you are straying from that path. By considering ED Dartmouth, a school without NROTC, and a choice which can shut the door on USNA this year, you are straying from that path. Do some thinking about what’s really influencing your choices and actions. Do you really want to be a Navy pilot? Or is that something you got used to saying, and as actual decision time nears, your true inclination is to pursue a regular college career targeting a career in finance. It is perfectly fine to go either way.

There are many fine schools with NROTC: Penn, Duke, Purdue, Notre Dame, other Ivies, state flagship universities and many more. Ask yourself why they didn’t make your list.

I agree with other posters who have said military service can be a great launching pad to a business career in some aspect of finance. Below is a partial list of USNA midshipmen we have sponsored who did their initial obligation and got out, taking advantage of the many programs to get advanced degrees or placement in the corporate world:
- BS Political Science, Marine ground, GWU B School, working in NYC for UBS in an upwardly mobile career path.
- BS English, Navy surface warfare, Syracuse B School, working at credit card services company in NYC in special junior officer talent path
- BS Quantitative Econ, Navy air, Northwestern B School, working for a global company whose name you would instantly recognize, in their Comptroller career track
- BS History, Marine ground logistics, owns his own wealth management firm after working for Schwab
- BS Systems Engineering, Navy surface warfare, Stanford B School, EVP at investment banking firm near Silicon Valley
- my own DH, USNA grad, full career as a naval aviator, MS in Operations Research, went to work for a nationally known Bank as a flagship branch VP, learned the retail banking ropes, promoted to a regional executive within a year overseeing 30 branches. Full career in banking followed.

Former military officers are hired for their skills and experience in strategic planning, leadership of teams, resource management, ability to function well in high pressure operational situations, willingness to make decisions and be accountable, flexibility, familiarity with moving to new jobs/places (adaptability), work ethic (unfazed by long work hours), ability to pivot as a situation demands, maturity born of experience in real-life situations involving going in harm’s way far beyond what civilian age peers experience. That’s the worth brought by veterans that is highly valued by employers, and why there are junior officer placement firms under contract to Fortune 500 companies to recruit them.

Good luck with your thinking.

 

[Dr. Strange Love]

Why do you say that?

.
Call Dartmouth and tell them what your situation is with the USNA application and the Dartmouth ED vs. RD. You'll likely talk to someone in admissions who will be very empathetic to your concerns.

When you get to be as old as I am … you “Play everything out” …

I think Dartmouth will work with you on the ED thing, given that another one of your desires is that you want to attend a SA and serve your country.
.

 

[i_like_planes]

.
Call Dartmouth and tell them what your situation is with the USNA application and the Dartmouth ED vs. RD. You'll likely talk to someone in admissions who will be very empathetic to your concerns.

When you get to be as old as I am … you “Play everything out” …

I think Dartmouth will work with you on the ED thing, given that another one of your desires is that you want to attend a SA and serve your country.
.

Would the Dartmouth admissions office be able to do anything about my issue?

 

[kyboymom]

Would the Dartmouth admissions office be able to do anything about my issue?

It is hard to say. I will say that my DS (now a youngster at USNA) had a similar issue with Vanderbilt. He did not want to go ED because he wanted to wait for USNA but he knew that his chances were significantly higher going ED and we were going round and round with admissions - they were actually very nice and were close to them agreeing that he basically sign an ED form that that he would attend if accepted - with the exception for being accepted to USNA. It was during these discussions that DS received his LOA so he decided not to pursue the Vanderbilt ED route so I can't tell you how it ultimately would have worked out. We also had a large state school agree to hold his NM scholarship until after plebe summer (he was supposed to accept by May 1 and they agreed to hold until August 15) so long as we affirmatively notified them by August 15. A couple of caveats - this was spring/summer of 2020 and covid was wreaking havoc with seniors, admissions, etc. and we were very nervous about what might happen to DS if he contracted covid before or during plebe summer so we were attempting to keep plans b, c and d open and we were honest about that with both admissions offices. All that is to say that DS found the admissions departments to be very receptive and understanding when we explained that the only hold out was USNA. In fact, the state school that held his scholarship actually sent him a note after we told them that he was staying at USNA thanking him for his service. Those with Dartmouth specific admission experience may know better. Either way the best of luck to you - you have exciting times ahead!

 

[Capt MJ]

Would the Dartmouth admissions office be able to do anything about my issue?

Heed the advice. Exercise your full range of communications skills in various channels, break out a phone and call them for a real live conversation. An unofficial anonymous Internet forum can only take you so far.