Enlisted Army to AFROTC?

[Endless1967]

First of all, hello all. This is my first post but I've been lurking for some time now. Its so nice to finally talk to all of you.

This is all going to sound absurd but please just hear me out. I'm 19, out of high school I had no idea what I wanted to do. 18 was a confusing age for me. I wanted this and that but knew nothing of either, so I know i'm a late starter. I eventually came to the conclusion that I wanted to serve my country. So here it goes...

I joined AFROTC and am due in for orientation soon. It is my intention to try for a rated slot (pilot), and of course I know there's no guarantee ill win it (not even a good chance honestly). But the more I think of it the less appealing it sounds, and its not because I don't have faith in my ability, I do. I just hate the idea of being commissioned and knowing that I didn't earn it. I hate the idea of being head and shoulders above guys (and girls) in rank who did go out and sacrifice for the nation while I sat stateside and read books. So i'm debating leaving AFROTC to enlist in the US Army for 3 years (active duty of course) and then going back to it to compete for my pilot slot (by that point ill be 22 or 23). It sounds absolutely crazy I know, forgive me. The more I think about it though, the more it sounds like a great idea. Id be reentering AFROTC (if they'd let me, do you think they would?) as a vet with experience. Id have the GI Bill backing me through college (good in-case I don't win a scholarship). I might even have a better chance of winning my rated slot. (maybe, not quite sure how the selection process goes.) So basically my question is how possible does this all sound? What administrative hoops will there be going from AFROTC to Army vet back to AFROTC? Is such a thing even heard of?

 

[MidCakePa]

Others more knowledgeable than I can comment on the nuts-and-bolts aspects of what you’re contemplating. I’ll weigh in on the macro, philosophical issue. If you obtain a commission via AFROTC, make no mistake: You will have earned it. Fully, completely, without reservation or any reason to think less of it. You will not have merely “sat stateside and read books,” but have trained rigorously to deserve those butter bars and the privilege to lead our troops. Should that time come, you should feel nothing but pride.

 

[Endless1967]

I apologize if I came off as disrespectful, it was not my intention. I have nothing but respect for the cadets and the officers in charge of AFROTC as well as for all who are serving or have served. When I spoke of sitting "stateside and reading books" I was referring to the college aspect. Im aware rigorous training will be conducted. But I believe field experience shapes a better cadet and a better officer.

 

[SimplyPutin]

Hello!

I'm a freshman too and I reported for my orientation yesterday and in-processed today. Like you, I intend to apply for a pilot slot.

Personally I feel that getting an education and accepting a commission is no more or less a service to our country than those services rendered by enlisted soldiers. I also believe that, like MidCake said, we aren't being handed something for nothing. Completing a degree and completing a four year ROTC program and field training is no trivial task.

At the end of the day, our country deserves and is owed great soldiers. How you choose to serve is up to you, and any service is admirable in my book.

I'm a freshman so please don't take why I'm going to say at face value, but I have talked to pilots, juniors, and seniors about how the process works to become a pilot. From what I understand, the majority of your "score" has to do with your academic performance, cadre evaluation, and PCSM (Pilot Candidate Selection Method) score. Your PCSM consists of a number of things, but prior experience is not one of this things as far as I am aware. It is possible that the board will be informed of and consider your prior service.

Hope this helps.

 

[Pima]

Personally I see some issues with your plan.

1. Where did you get this idea that you would only do 3 yrs AD Army? 4 yrs is the traditional enlistment, thus if you are 19 now, by the time you go through the enlistment process and report, you maybe close to 20, or even 20. 24 when you get out

Now add into the factor that let's say you are released from the Army in Feb. Too late to start spring semester, and AFROTC does not do summer classes. You will have to wait until the fall to start. Now you are looking at being closer to 25. That means almost 29 when you commission.

2. As stated the rated boards will give no edge to prior service during their selection process.

It is your academic, cadre evaluation, PCSM will also include how many flight hrs you have obtained and your TBAS score. The TBAS is an exam. Unlike the AFOQT which you take for SFT (summer field training) there are no study guide manuals that you can purchase on line. The exam questions are tightly held by the AF.

3. AGE

The AF will move the age requirement up and down based on their personnel needs. I have seen it move up and down over the yrs. Some yr groups you had to be no older than 27 1/2 when you started UPT, some yrs it was 29 1/2 and some yrs it was 32. The thing is if they have enough pilots in the pipeline they will reduce the age requirement, not enough and they will increase the age limit.

Again, you will be 28 or 29 when you commission. Typically you will wait 6-9 months plus from commissioning to start UPT. That means you could be even closer to 30 when you start. UPT is 54 weeks. Your commitment starts the day you wing, which basically will be 10 more yrs. So you will be 40-41 yrs old at the best before you can leave the AF and fly the friendly skies.

One other thing to add into this equation when it comes to age. Socialization, be it in AFROTC or ADAF.
~ The majority of AFROTC cadets enter as 18 yr olds. Many that do not get into 4 yr university or can't afford it right away will do CC, and become what is called a xtown cadet. They take their classes at the CC, but attend AFROTC at the closest host university. Most will eventually transfer to a college that is still tied to the host university, thus, they don't skip a beat in the program and commission at 22. You will be entering as a freshmen at 23 or 24, older than most cadets graduating.
~~ Bonding happens in ROTC units. You are 19 now, imagine what your maturity level and experiences will be when you are 23. In essence, it is a different world. It would be like hanging with 14 yr olds right now on a social level. Nobody flame me for that comment, I am just trying to illustrate age difference in a social environment exists.
~~~ My DS commissioned via AFROTC, his friendships that he still has now are people in his AFROTC class where he socialized with on weekends, at university sporting events, in Arnie Air Society.

This is also true for ADAF, be it a UPT student or in an operational squadron as a pilot. The flying world is small at any base. At 29 you will be one of the oldest students in your class. Your age group peers will most likely be your IPs. They will not be hanging with you on a Friday night in a social environment.
~ My DS had 2 students that were prior E, got their degrees while enlisted, went to OCS with a follow on to UPT. Both were married with toddlers. Their weekends when not studying were being a family, not hanging with the bachelors.

NOW, look at your plan compared to Simply Putin's plan (same as my DS). If SimplyPutin is picked up for rated via AFROTC he will be like my DS and able to walk at 33-34. If he decides to stay for 20 he would be @42, and depending on the retirement system, he will get pay and medical coverage for the rest of his life. Not only that, but at 32 or so, he would be offered a 250K flight bonus to stay until he was 42, basically about the same time you go to your 1st operational base. You at 40-41 would get a hardy handshake and a pat on the back if you left, just like him if he walked at 33.

I respect your premise, but let me say, I think you can see why I disagree with this path.

I want to finally say 2 things.
1. AF life is absolutely nothing like Army life. If you are sure you want to enlist. Enlist in the AF.
~ I can say this with certainty. My husband was a flier for the AF, but did a joint assignment with the 82nd as a Jump ALO. He also attended what is called PME in residence as an O4 at Leavenworth.
~~ The AF is called the Prima Donna Branch that works bankers hours.
2. If you want to fly, and the Army interests you, look into becoming a WO. It might be the perfect match for you.

 

[Tbpxece]

//EDIT// After reading @Pima 's lengthy post, mine is more or less a TL;DR version of her great (other than the "prima donna"/"bankers hours" part) response.

This is a really bad proposal, given your purported rationale. The enlisted Army and enlisted AF experiences are worlds apart and not compatible. You will not be more competitive for a rated slot, and might wind up less competitive. Again, enlisted Army is NOT the same as enlisted AF, especially at the junior enlisted level.

If you want some enlisted experience, then get useful and pertinent enlisted experience-- join the USAF. Keep in mind you likely won't be going to Basic Training until late spring, though (regardless of branch), so you may as well get some college knocked out in the meantime this fall (and spring).

 

[Tbpxece]

...he would be offered a 250K flight bonus to stay until he was 42,

It's a little more than that currently...

The AF is called the Prima Donna Branch that works bankers hours.

I agree that some may call it that, but it is not something to flaunt. It certainly has not been the case in my enlisted or officer career to have worked banker's hours. Even sitting on staff or in command, you are looking at 10 hour days minimum. Just like your Joint Army counterparts.

Enlisted is no different, especially if you are in an AFSC with 24-hour ops. Even at home station, between roll call, checking out equipment, meals, and turnover, it's 9-10 hour days on light days.

Of course, there are members that do the minimum-- perhaps they are closer to 8 hour days, but they are in all branches...