Federalist Article by Former Cadet

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RJB1690 said:
The latest science suggests that, even if a vaccinated person becomes infected with COVID, that vaccinated person is less likely to spread the disease to others than an infected unvaccinated person would be. https://www.nbcnews.com/health/heal...kely-spread-covid-new-research-finds-n1280583
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https://www.nbcnews.com/health/heal...kely-spread-covid-new-research-finds-n1280583
Than an infected unvaccinated. Maybe. But not all unvaccinated are infected. And vaccinated spread it more than recovered covid people with natural immunity.
 
A1Janitor said:
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/heal...kely-spread-covid-new-research-finds-n1280583
Than an infected unvaccinated. Maybe. But not all unvaccinated are infected. And vaccinated spread it more than recovered covid people with natural immunity.
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I was speaking specifically to the question @jebdad asked about his understanding that a vaccine would not stop someone from passing COVID to others. As far as what's currently known, the answer is that it might. Obviously someone who is uninfected, either vaccinated or unvaccinated, is in no danger of passing COVID to anyone. And I did not make any kind of statement about natural immunity.
 
A1Janitor said:
First, unvaccinated does not mean they have covid.

Second, if a cadet is vaccinated, how are they at risk from covid at all? Either the vaccine works or it doesn’t.

Third, the CDC came out and admitted they have no known case of a person who had covid (natural immunity) previously that transmitted covid to anyone else.

Fourth, we now know the vaccinated can transfer covid to others.

Science matters.
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The vaccine isnt 100% as we all know but just as important, it seems to lose its power over time. Plus my personal opinion that it is less effective with the Delta Variant which didn't exist when the vaccine was created. This is why they are now pushing the booster shot which i have taken. Not happy about it , but i see it as no different than people taking the flu shot every year. Flu shot isn't forever and neither is the Covid vaccine. Which only proves that while natural immunity exists and is effective initially, it probably isnt there for a long time. At worst even if you catch Covid after being vaccinated, you have a much less chance of getting critically sick from it. Let's be honest, outside of those who go on the ventilators and or die, Covid isn't that life-threatening. My wife got it and it was a nasty flu, my son got it and had a stuffed-up nose, while my client died from it. I call it Russian Roulette and if we can get the Russian Roulette part of it, Covid is more than bearable.
 
It’s been mentioned many times that people who join the military should comply with all directives given to them. If the individual is not comfortable obeying the orders given to them they shouldn’t be in the military.
So a person cannot refuse the vaccine for any reason including religious exemption if in the military.
I am all about compliance, following orders, and uniformity etc.. I do take exception with inconsistencies within policies and spot enforcement of regulations as is done by the military. Anyone who has served has experienced it. Just think about simple things like haircut out of regulation but being allowed or better yet, weight standards not being met, but allowed. Let’s be honest, the Army is fat. I had friends forced out in the 90’s who didn’t meet weight standards. That was mostly due to the downsizing at the time and needs of the Army, but they were overweight. They would likely be accepted in today’s environment.
So my final example of inconsistency in the Army is allowing a faith based exemption to uniform compliance. Those of the Sikh faith are allowed to wear beards and a special cover different from the others who are in uniform. I don’t know what type of screening or “proof” of their Sikh faith must be given, but they are given a faith based exemption.
Now that this exception and accommodation has been made for a religious belief, it sets precedent. No one else should be denied a faith based accommodation or it would (should) be discrimination ie refusing vaccinations due to religious beliefs.

Personally I support uniformity, equal treatment and standards to be met by all regardless of faith or sex.
 
shock-n-awe said:
It’s been mentioned many times that people who join the military should comply with all directives given to them. If the individual is not comfortable obeying the orders given to them they shouldn’t be in the military.
So a person cannot refuse the vaccine for any reason including religious exemption if in the military.
I am all about compliance, following orders, and uniformity etc.. I do take exception with inconsistencies within policies and spot enforcement of regulations as is done by the military. Anyone who has served has experienced it. Just think about simple things like haircut out of regulation but being allowed or better yet, weight standards not being met, but allowed. Let’s be honest, the Army is fat. I had friends forced out in the 90’s who didn’t meet weight standards. That was mostly due to the downsizing at the time and needs of the Army, but they were overweight. They would likely be accepted in today’s environment.
So my final example of inconsistency in the Army is allowing a faith based exemption to uniform compliance. Those of the Sikh faith are allowed to wear beards and a special cover different from the others who are in uniform. I don’t know what type of screening or “proof” of their Sikh faith must be given, but they are given a faith based exemption.
Now that this exception and accommodation has been made for a religious belief, it sets precedent. No one else should be denied a faith based accommodation or it would (should) be discrimination ie refusing vaccinations due to religious beliefs.

Personally I support uniformity, equal treatment and standards to be met by all regardless of faith or sex.
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I dont agree with the Sikh being allowed to wear beards and a special cover. But ignoring that for the moment, what is the worse that can happen if a person is allowed to wear a beard, his death. What is the worse that can happen if someone uses religion to not take the vaccine, the contamination and possible death of other people? As for religion as a reason to not get vaccinated, that would mean that this person has not been vaccinated since birth and more importantly has not had a vaccination since entering the military. If that isn't the case, they are just picking and choosing and using religion to support their personal decision. Outside of a random few religions, i don't know any religions that do not allow vaccinations. The religious excuse is so easy to use because anyone can create a denomination of Christianity (or other religion) that believes unicorns horns can cure cancer and riding one gives you immortality. Who is going to say their religion is made up? If all of sudden the Surpeme Court said that not taking the vaccine was allowed because its protected by freedom of speech, the whole religious excuse would go away and everyone would be arguing freedom of speech. In other words, a religious excuse is just a convenient excuse. (for most, but not all)
 
Humey said:
I dont agree with the Sikh being allowed to wear beards and a special cover. But ignoring that for the moment, what is the worse that can happen if a person is allowed to wear a beard, his death. What is the worse that can happen if someone uses religion to not take the vaccine, the contamination and possible death of other people? As for religion as a reason to not get vaccinated, that would mean that this person has not been vaccinated since birth and more importantly has not had a vaccination since entering the military. If that isn't the case, they are just picking and choosing and using religion to support their personal decision. Outside of a random few religions, i don't know any religions that do not allow vaccinations. The religious excuse is so easy to use because anyone can create a denomination of Christianity (or other religion) that believes unicorns horns can cure cancer and riding one gives you immortality. Who is going to say their religion is made up? If all of sudden the Surpeme Court said that not taking the vaccine was allowed because its protected by freedom of speech, the whole religious excuse would go away and everyone would be arguing freedom of speech. In other words, a religious excuse is just a convenient excuse. (for most, but not all)
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We can’t ignore the Sikh accommodation. The religious “excuse “. has been recognized and accommodated for the Sikh. As for the Coronavirus vaccine, some are against it because of the aborted fetuses used in the studying and creating of the vaccine. That’s one example that has been noted. Who am I to judge that person’s belief when their faith is against abortion?
Now we begin to judge the merit, reasons, level of danger it may cause, and any other means of judgement for the next religious exemption request?
That’s quite a rabbit hole, but that door has already been opened is my point.
 
shock-n-awe said:
It’s been mentioned many times that people who join the military should comply with all directives given to them. If the individual is not comfortable obeying the orders given to them they shouldn’t be in the military.
So a person cannot refuse the vaccine for any reason including religious exemption if in the military.
I am all about compliance, following orders, and uniformity etc.. I do take exception with inconsistencies within policies and spot enforcement of regulations as is done by the military. Anyone who has served has experienced it. Just think about simple things like haircut out of regulation but being allowed or better yet, weight standards not being met, but allowed. Let’s be honest, the Army is fat. I had friends forced out in the 90’s who didn’t meet weight standards. That was mostly due to the downsizing at the time and needs of the Army, but they were overweight. They would likely be accepted in today’s environment.
So my final example of inconsistency in the Army is allowing a faith based exemption to uniform compliance. Those of the Sikh faith are allowed to wear beards and a special cover different from the others who are in uniform. I don’t know what type of screening or “proof” of their Sikh faith must be given, but they are given a faith based exemption.
Now that this exception and accommodation has been made for a religious belief, it sets precedent. No one else should be denied a faith based accommodation or it would (should) be discrimination ie refusing vaccinations due to religious beliefs.

Personally I support uniformity, equal treatment and standards to be met by all regardless of faith or sex.
Click to expand...
I dont agree with the Sikh being allowed to wear beards and a special cover. But ignoring that for the moment, what is the worse that can happen if a person is allowed to wear a beard, his death. What is the worse that can happen if someone uses religion to not take the vaccine, the contamination and possible death of other people? As for religion as a reason to not get vaccinated, that would mean that this person has not been vaccinated since birth and more importantly has not had a vaccination since entering the military. If that isn't the case, they are just picking and choosing and using religion to support their personal decision. Outside of a random few religions, i don't know any religions that do not allow vaccinations. The religious excuse is so easy to use because anyone can create a denomination of Christianity (or other religion) that believes unicorns horns can cure cancer and riding one gives you immortality. Who is going to say their religion is made up? If all of sudden the Surpeme Court said that not taking the vaccine was allowed because its protected by freedom of speech, the whole religion excuse would go way and everyone would be arguing freedom of speech. In other words, a religious excuse is just the convenient excuse.
 
The only place I disagree with her is her calling out the Biden admin. I think it is ALL of our leadership including the past Trump admin. Both parties. The push for this vaccine goes even above our political leaders to the elites of the world. I have no idea why this is. Good ole money or control? But this is why the generals are acting so foolish over this whole thing. The pressure on them is immense! With that said my daughter is a USAFA 2026 hopeful and is considering other career options if she gets an appointment. She does not want the vaccine either and this whole thing just makes me incredibly sad. She has worked so hard the last 5 years. But life will throw you curve balls for sure.
 
jeffinCharlotte said:
With that said my daughter is a USAFA 2026 hopeful and is considering other career options if she gets an appointment. She does not want the vaccine either and this whole thing just makes me incredibly sad. She has worked so hard the last 5 years. But life will throw you curve balls for sure.
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This isn't going away any time soon. Shouldn't she withdraw her application if she's not going to go?
 
Bushrod said:
This isn't going away any time soon. Shouldn't she withdraw her application if she's not going to go?
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She will withdraw when she is ready to do so. She does not know at this point.. It is not an easy decision. This could go away tomorrow if the right people say so. There is simply no need for this mandate. But you are probably right and yes unfortunately she will probably withdraw.
 
Amazingly, General Schwarzkopf answered THE Question about the ongoing vaccine issues three decades ago.

His statement and advice about West Point is very simple and clear. If you can watch this video carefully, you can find who we are, e.g., leaders of 21st century. What an inspirational speech!
 
DDmom said:
I respect your opinion but find it hard to believe that a Cadet passed dodmerb with a pre existing heart condition. The vaccine has had many severe reactions and many young healthy people who were vaccinated are now sick with heart disease and a range of other various ailments they did not have before they had the vaccine. Also there are studies that show that natural immunity is far superior and last longer than the vaccine, something a simple antibody test would have confirmed. Some countries have stopped giving young healthy people the vaccine because of the high rate of vaccine injures.
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Passing the DoDMerb is relatively easy especially if you didn’t go to the doctor very often. The majority of the DODMERB exam is a document review.

Though I agree if a cadet now has a documented heart condition after taking the vaccine, it’s hard to not think it’s caused by the vaccine
 
jeffinCharlotte said:
She will withdraw when she is ready to do so. She does not know at this point.. It is not an easy decision. This could go away tomorrow if the right people say so. There is simply no need for this mandate. But you are probably right and yes unfortunately she will probably withdraw.
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For the last decade and a half of my working life I have been priviledged to work in some of the most interesting, beautiful and dangerous places on earth. I carry on me at all times two vaccine passports, one has my Yellow Fever details, the other a set of vaccines specific to hygiene and water for a number of things such as Typhoid. Keeping up and having constant proof of these vaccines is a core requirement of my work. Am I forced to take them, no, there are literally hundreds of jobs I could do that would not require me to have them but I do keep them up because to not do so is incompatible with the job I want to do.

You are right the COVID vaccine mandate may go away tomorrow, but it also may not and if it did go away, the day after tomorrow another vaccine might become mandatory, one that you know as much about and trust as little. The military has had vaccine mandates for decades, a couple of hundred years in fact, COVID might come and go in a year more but the mandates will remain and evolve. Your daughter is not forced to take this or any vaccine now she is an adult, there are literally hundreds of jobs she could do that would not require her to have them, but military service is not one of them.
 
When I first came in we were still giving Cholera vaccine. Every six months and that was even if not in a Cholera endemic area.

Thankfully the requirement was dropped and I seem to recall it was due to the vaccine not being effective.
 
Emsa said:
For the last decade and a half of my working life I have been priviledged to work in some of the most interesting, beautiful and dangerous places on earth. I carry on me at all times two vaccine passports, one has my Yellow Fever details, the other a set of vaccines specific to hygiene and water for a number of things such as Typhoid. Keeping up and having constant proof of these vaccines is a core requirement of my work. Am I forced to take them, no, there are literally hundreds of jobs I could do that would not require me to have them but I do keep them up because to not do so is incompatible with the job I want to do.

You are right the COVID vaccine mandate may go away tomorrow, but it also may not and if it did go away, the day after tomorrow another vaccine might become mandatory, one that you know as much about and trust as little. The military has had vaccine mandates for decades, a couple of hundred years in fact, COVID might come and go in a year more but the mandates will remain and evolve. Your daughter is not forced to take this or any vaccine now she is an adult, there are literally hundreds of jobs she could do that would not require her to have them, but military service is not one of them.
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I hear you. We are not anti vax. This one is different and does not compare to any other I have seen in my life. The nefarious acts going on right now in our government surrounding this are unprecedented. Anyone with a moral compass can feel the disingenuous push with everything COVID 19. Saying no to this is much more than taking a vaccine shot. I took many shots when I served in the Navy and as a police officer and have no problem with vaccines at all. This one is different on many scales. My daughter is going to make her own decision and is not being pushed by me either way. I will support her no matter what she decides. Because honestly I don't really know if I am right! Or if this is the right thing to stand our ground on and fall on our sword over. The young lady in this article decided it was the right decision.
 
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Years ago I worked for a company that was the first to try to apply "big data" to improving healthcare outcomes. Common issue sets included questions like what is the optimal way to treat a 70 year old woman who falls and breaks a hip? This company advanced a broad understanding of how our healthcare system delivers care but it failed because it couldn't address an intractable problem: The difference between "population level" data and insights and individual care. In other words it was possible to figure out how a generic patient should be treated, but doctors are trained to treat the human in front of them. If Mrs. Jones is in pain, the doctor will go beyond the generic recommendation to help Mrs. Jones.

I have come to see COVID/masking/vaccine/mandate through a similar lens: The extremely difficult to align interests of the individual vs. the collective. I am firmly in the collective good camp. COVID-19 had the potential to be an existential threat to the global and the American system. Healthcare system overload, significant economic disruption and more. Each of these would have been devastating individually, but the compounding effects could have been disastrous. However for many if not most relatively healthy individuals, it was not a very dangerous disease.

Metcalfe's Law states that a network's value is proportional to the square of the number of nodes in the network. For me this is the fundamental dynamic as it relates to masking, vaccines, mandates and variants. None of us knows the answer, but I wonder if the Delta variant exists because we were unable to rapidly reduce the numbers of infected/transmissable nodes in the "network" of humans who spread the disease. It is highly likely that the behavior of individuals who prioritized personal autonomy, or who believed the risk to them personally was low, contributed to the length of time that a large number of "nodes" remained susceptible. This allowed the disease to continue to mutate. Facing the wildfires we experience every year in the West, I do not want to get to 60% containment and hope that the remaining embers will simply go out.

I joined this forum as DS began his journey. We are not a military family but he chose to be part of something larger than himself. That decision feels like a prioritization of collective benefit over the individual. It feels like that tends to be at the core of most of the kids who choose to attend a SA. It is an honorable choice with inherent risk. Personally I see this entire discussion through a similar lens.
 
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