First Semester Done of Plebe year

Thanks for posting- it's interesting to hear that so many have gone through the exact same process.
Our Plebe son is back too, and we've heard a few things from him now. He was surprised/disappointed that Beast was not particularly difficult. I think he went in thinking it was going to be like going out for Special Forces. He's also surprised that some kids are so down on the experience- he still has to pinch himself that he's really at the USMA. In high school he was caught up with a 2 year GF who attended another HS, and he didn't spend too much time with more than 3 friends from his own school. He almost didn't have patience for the teen scene. What's great to see and hear is that he has already made several high-caliber friends that he'll probably have for life. The GF is over with on his end. He spent Army/Navy with friends instead of us, which was fine. One of the first things he said after Beast to his mother was "Mom, it's awesome: there's a lot of kids here just like me!" He's since said that in fact not everyone there is young Captain America, but he simply doesn't associate with the "low-speed individuals". (There's been a ton of similar terminology, LOL.) I'm sure he's have some bumps in the road ahead, but for now it's been easy on us as parents to see how he is thriving there.
 
Thank you for sharing your with everyone the unshared side of West Point. I understand that your plebes do not hate their SA's, but know that they have a long road ahead of them. My sibling was in the same spot last year, but I think that now that he is no longer a Plebe he is happy to have some more privileges and create lifelong bonds with peers who he fits well with.

As a current USMA and USNA candidate now, this helped me realize that really, plebe year is a difficult start to a worthwhile future path. It is nice to gain a new perspective from other plebes. Thank you for sharing @JTGib13 :)
 
I will add a bit, as my son likewise is in the middle of Plebe year.

Although there are many things about WP that my son said he hates, he loves WP so far, and particularly the Corps of Cadets. He is delighted to be home, and hanging out with friends and family, but he admitted to me that he misses WP too. I was shocked.

He enjoyed Beast, and this is a kid who had never even been camping or hunting. He really looks forward to going back to Buckner next summer.

Accademicaly he struggled a bit. Like all the rest, he was an "A" student in high school, but will end up with a high C or low B average after one semester, which is tough for all of us to digest, but I think he learned some things, and will do things differently now. Some classes were just hard though.

My son only turned 18 three months ago, and we are a non military family. He only decided to apply to academies at the end of his junior year of HS, so his learning curve was fairly significant I think. His attitude was good though, and nothing really ever bothers him too much, which I think provides him with a solid disposition and temperament.

We visited him several times. Went to three football games, in addition to ARMY Navy game. (Live in Michigan). We have loved every visit and so has he I think.

For parents of 2021 class, I agree with other comments made here. My son also emphasized packing light for beast, but bring lots of extra underwear. The other stuff people suggested bringing was unnecessary, and a burdoned. Bring moleskin, and lots of it.

One of the things that has bothered my son is that many "slackers" have gotten away with not doing what they are required to do, and what the rest of the Corps does without complaint. He says, "I can not believe they let those kids pass beast". He hates that accommodations are made the winer's and "crybabies", instead of booting them. He says it bothers the other good cadets too. He also said though that as a whole the vast majority of Cadets are outstanding; men, women, and of all backgrounds. He is impressed.

My son is a bit envious of kids at other colleges in terms of freedoms, but he has zero regrets, and wouldn't change places with those kids if you paid him. He loves being a WP Cadet more than anything.
 
JTGib13 said:
I assumed that his observations are as old as the hills but hearing it more openly from my son---and for new parents---or parents with no military background---it was very new to me and I'm sure will be very new to most future parents of kids at SA's. When my son told me his plans/goals, I read and read and read as much as I could about West Point and all the service academies and I made the original post yesterday because even after all the research and reading I had done, I can honestly say, I never heard that the kids were SO miserable. I heard it was extremely tough, etc etc etc...but I had never heard that Plebes hated going back to school, or Yuks were bitter, or Cows were cranky or Firsties were the most cynical of all. So to all of you who read this and thought: "I've heard this one a million times..." I apologize that you had to read something you already knew, but to new parents OR parents hoping and praying their kids get in for whatever reason, I wanted to share some honest and open conversation that happened between my son and me so that hopefully you could have a different perspective beyond reading how great it is, and what an honor it is to get in, and how tough but rewarding it will be. There is much more to it than I think most care to share. I feel extremely fortunate that my son is doing well but a very, very, very small part of me hopes it doesn't make him hateful, resentful, and cynical about his future. My original angle was to help those people whose kids don't get in to realize that there other great options that will get your son or daughter to the same goal of becoming an officer without necessarily going through a SA so enjoy their senior year and as long as they have solid back up plans, they will be fine! :) Once again, I think WP is an amazing place and I am extremely happy that my son is where he always wanted to be. :) Enjoy the holidays with your sons and daughters!!! :D Go Army! ;)
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I'm hoping parentalunit2's remark was meant in jest. Your post was wonderful, and timely. It's always different hearing things from the perspective of someone you know very well. While the rudiments of the insights may not change, they are always colored and informed by the individual perspective of your own kid. Congrats on one semester down. I fear tomorrow may mark his triumphant return to our shared "rockbound highland home."
 
brovol said:
One of the things that has bothered my son is that many "slackers" have gotten away with not doing what they are required to do, and what the rest of the Corps does without complaint. He says, "I can not believe they let those kids pass beast". He hates that accommodations are made the winer's and "crybabies", instead of booting them. He says it bothers the other good cadets too. He also said though that as a whole the vast majority of Cadets are outstanding; men, women, and of all backgrounds. He is impressed.

My son is a bit envious of kids at other colleges in terms of freedoms, but he has zero regrets, and wouldn't change places with those kids if you paid him. He loves being a WP Cadet more than anything.
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Sadly, there is no better training for military life than seeing turds get shoved through a supposedly merit-based system while everyone else hauls their weight. It's excellent preparation.

Your last paragraph is your most important one...the lack of freedom goes away. Soon he'll be able to leave and see a bit of the world, enjoy a part of America he likely hasn't seen (NYC), etc. One thing I found in my visits to see my sister at an Ivy League college or my roommate's girlfriend/friends at Bryn Mawr is that regular kids have more "freedom" per se, but it's largely wasted. The price your son pays now will yield big dividends the rest of his life. Just wait until it's time for grad school.
 
scoutpilot said:
Sadly, there is no better training for military life than seeing turds get shoved through a supposedly merit-based system while everyone else hauls their weight. It's excellent preparation.

Your last paragraph is your most important one...the lack of freedom goes away. Soon he'll be able to leave and see a bit of the world, enjoy a part of America he likely hasn't seen (NYC), etc. One thing I found in my visits to see my sister at an Ivy League college or my roommate's girlfriend/friends at Bryn Mawr is that regular kids have more "freedom" per se, but it's largely wasted. The price your son pays now will yield big dividends the rest of his life. Just wait until it's time for grad school.
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I understand this, and more importantly I believe my son does too. It really seems like the crappy stuff of USMA doesn't bother him much at all. Others complain about the food. He says it isn't good, but it's not that bad either, and he is never hungry. He would like not to have to do a lot of things like drill, formations, room inspections, etc., but he understands that it is all part of why academies are what they are, and says he wouldn't change things. He likes most of the professors, but note that there are a few he thinks WP could do without.

He did like getting out, when he had a few moments, and walking around to appreciate the beauty, and frequently sent us pictures. So these cold months may eliminate that. I'm sure this semester will be tougher. Hope he figures out the academic side, as his grades will need to improve.

Overall, his experience has been pretty excellent. Hope that continues.
 
This is all part of the journey. My DS1 was miserable the last couple of days before heading back to his SMC after the first holiday break. My DH drove DS1 to the airport at the end of break. The ride to the airport was not filled with pleasant conversation. Upon arrival at airport security, the TSA agent informed DH that he could walk to the gate with DS1, since DS1 was traveling in uniform, and say goodbye there. DH thanked the TSA agent, but bid DS1 goodbye at the security checkpoint. DH later told me that he did not want to spend additional "parent-child bonding" minutes with DS1 that day.

Fast forward six years, DH and I just returned from spending Christmas with DS1, now a 1LT. We had an enjoyable three days together in a beautiful European city, complete with fun Christmas markets, concerts, a performance of the the Nutcracker, and midnight mass in a foreign language. When it came time to say goodbye at the airport, I could see the sadness in DS1's eyes as he hugged us. But, this time, DS1 did not complain, he simply looked at us and said, "It's time to go back to work. I need a haircut." He quietly turned away from us and walked away.

For most, the SAs and the SMCs are not good places to be; rather, they are good places to be from.

Happy New Year.
 
brovol said:
I understand this, and more importantly I believe my son does too. It really seems like the crappy stuff of USMA doesn't bother him much at all. Others complain about the food. He says it isn't good, but it's not that bad either, and he is never hungry. He would like not to have to do a lot of things like drill, formations, room inspections, etc., but he understands that it is all part of why academies are what they are, and says he wouldn't change things. He likes most of the professors, but note that there are a few he thinks WP could do without.

He did like getting out, when he had a few moments, and walking around to appreciate the beauty, and frequently sent us pictures. So these cold months may eliminate that. I'm sure this semester will be tougher. Hope he figures out the academic side, as his grades will need to improve.

Overall, his experience has been pretty excellent. Hope that continues.
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Urge him to make use of AI (additional instruction). Most of my friends who are or were instructors there said it's one thing they wish cadets did more. Yes, you have to leave your room to do it. But an instructor will literally sit with you for hours to teach you the material better. It's the backstop to the Thayer Method.

I had an AWFUL instructor for MA255 (Advanced Multi-Variable Calculus). He was named Dr. Small, a civilian. Two or three years ago at Army-Navy I ran into an old acquaintance who was the math department head. I mentioned Small and he laughed "Oh, Fail-'Em-All Small? We got rid of him." He wasn't a bad guy but rather too smart for his job. He was meant to be teaching masters and PhD level material.

Anyhow, I learned all of the material through AI with a great active duty instructor. Got an A-

Same in Thermo. Civilian instructor was Turkish. Thick accent. A few AI sessions with "Spanky" (a diminutive Naval Aviator named Cmdr Frassey) set me up for success. I can still draw out the PV chart for a steam turbine. I'm a hit at parties.

All that is to say the academic troubles can be sorted quite quickly so long as he's willing to formulate good questions and make an AI appointment.
 
My cadet is packing in every minute of fun that he can while on leave, but I think that he is also not loathe to return to WP on the 4th. He is excited to be with his new roommates and with all his friends at WP as well. He loves being surrounded by like-minded individuals (although to your point @2020HD - he also is annoyed by the few slacker cadets and wonders why they are even at WP).
 
WRT "slacker cadets" - there is no magic interview, test or questionnaire that will bring these to light for Admissions. Same at all SAs. Tell your cadet to invest the annoyance energy elsewhere and trust "the system" will weed them out, either at the SA, or on active duty. If he sticks around, he will still be amazed certain people make general. That's been a universal gripe of all military folks since Alexander the Great and before...
 
With age comes perspective. Some of those "slackers" he sees now will do very, very well in the Army and in civilian life. Some of the "slackers" will do much better than those that appear squared away right now. It is what it is. I was pretty surprised by how some of the "slackers" turned out in my class that graduated 20+ years ago. I'm not saying it is OK to be slacker, but current perception isn't always reality when you look a little deeper. (I was not a slacker, so I don't want anyone thinking this is a defensive post).
 
While some slackers may do well in the army @billyb , I can understand the frustration of cadets who have to deal with them. Having to do extra work because others have shirked their responsibilities is always frustrating and does not engender camaraderie
.
 
scoutpilot said:
Urge him to make use of AI (additional instruction). Most of my friends who are or were instructors there said it's one thing they wish cadets did more. Yes, you have to leave your room to do it. But an instructor will literally sit with you for hours to teach you the material better. It's the backstop to the Thayer Method.

I had an AWFUL instructor for MA255 (Advanced Multi-Variable Calculus). He was named Dr. Small, a civilian. Two or three years ago at Army-Navy I ran into an old acquaintance who was the math department head. I mentioned Small and he laughed "Oh, Fail-'Em-All Small? We got rid of him." He wasn't a bad guy but rather too smart for his job. He was meant to be teaching masters and PhD level material.

Anyhow, I learned all of the material through AI with a great active duty instructor. Got an A-

Same in Thermo. Civilian instructor was Turkish. Thick accent. A few AI sessions with "Spanky" (a diminutive Naval Aviator named Cmdr Frassey) set me up for success. I can still draw out the PV chart for a steam turbine. I'm a hit at parties.

All that is to say the academic troubles can be sorted quite quickly so long as he's willing to formulate good questions and make an AI appointment.
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Thanks brother! Have already forwarded info.
 
Superior rocks said:
This is all part of the journey. My DS1 was miserable the last couple of days before heading back to his SMC after the first holiday break. My DH drove DS1 to the airport at the end of break. The ride to the airport was not filled with pleasant conversation. Upon arrival at airport security, the TSA agent informed DH that he could walk to the gate with DS1, since DS1 was traveling in uniform, and say goodbye there. DH thanked the TSA agent, but bid DS1 goodbye at the security checkpoint. DH later told me that he did not want to spend additional "parent-child bonding" minutes with DS1 that day.

Fast forward six years, DH and I just returned from spending Christmas with DS1, now a 1LT. We had an enjoyable three days together in a beautiful European city, complete with fun Christmas markets, concerts, a performance of the the Nutcracker, and midnight mass in a foreign language. When it came time to say goodbye at the airport, I could see the sadness in DS1's eyes as he hugged us. But, this time, DS1 did not complain, he simply looked at us and said, "It's time to go back to work. I need a haircut." He quietly turned away from us and walked away.

For most, the SAs and the SMCs are not good places to be; rather, they are good places to be from.

Happy New Year.
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Great quote and great story. Thank you.
 
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