First Submarine Assignment

[usna1985]

Can anyone tell me how assignment to one's first sub is done after prototype? Do folks submit preference cards? Do they select based on class rank? Or does Naval Reactors just assign people? Or some combination of the above . . .

With all the talk about service selection / assignment and knowing how it's done for surface ships, was just curious as to how it works for subs.

 

[Capt MJ]

Can anyone tell me how assignment to one's first sub is done after prototype? Do folks submit preference cards? Do they select based on class rank? Or does Naval Reactors just assign people? Or some combination of the above . . .

With all the talk about service selection / assignment and knowing how it's done for surface ships, was just curious as to how it works for subs.

It’s nuclear power school Charleston, prototype either Ballston Spa or Charleston, SOBC (sub officer basic course) at Groton. I think it’s at SOBC the assignment process happens, with the usual magic elixir of needs of the Navy in combination with officer preferences for sub type and home port.

One of our USNA sponsor alumni - #3 at nuclear power school behind 2 prior enlisted nukes, #1 at prototype, #1 in SOBC class, definite engineering chops, was sent to the boat with the most engineering trouble, nothing like what was on the “dream sheet.” That wasn’t a coincidence. Needs of the Navy weighed heavily there. That is just one anecdote. I don’t know what the stats are for percentages getting first choices.

That’s what I have observed from the bleachers. Sub officers will have more specifics.

 

[justdoit19]

I also have a few question…how long *generally* do all of those trainings take? And does it start soon after commissioning? I’ve heard that aviation is a long delay presently. Wondering if the same is true for subs?

 

[Capt MJ]

I also have a few question…how long *generally* do all of those trainings take? And does it start soon after commissioning? I’ve heard that aviation is a long delay presently. Wondering if the same is true for subs?

After their “basket leave” (a chunk of uncharged leave time) after graduation, new USNA grads report in waves to their school pipelines or ships on a staggered basis throughout the rest of the calendar year, sometimes a bit into the next. They merge with OCS grads coming into the pipeline, as well as NROTC and other pre-comm sources. In the interim, they are “stashed” at USNA or elsewhere while waiting. The training pipelines cannot swallow them in one gulp.

There are always delays at flight school - weather, storm aftermath, any number of factors, can clog the pipeline and back up the classes related to actual training hops. Baby bubbleheads do not have weather challenges in their classrooms and prototype buildings, though a down prototype can cause problems.

Submarine pipeline, with its 3 main segments, is generally 2 years. Officers can also go to short specialized schools enroute to their boat, as can any officer or military person headed to their PCS job. Enroute to my first duty station, I had to go to a one-week Classified Material Control school, because my destination command had indicated CMCO would be one of my collateral duties (oh lucky me). Another time I went to a short Legal Officer course, when collateral duty Legal Officer awaited me at my next duty station (oh doubly lucky me, but that paid off in exposure to CO/XO and my own later tours as a CO/XO.) It is very common to go to enroute training while executing PCS orders. An aviator coming off a few years of shore duty will return to a training squadron for a refresher course with hops before reporting to a fleet squadron.

Basket leave: The term arose from a paper leave chit (request) being allowed to rest in an In Basket, with the person tacitly allowed to go on leave but the chit never sent off for processing and entry into disbursing accounts as charged leave. Upon return, the chit was torn up. Basket leave is generally any period of acknowledged but uncharged leave.

it’s either 30 or 60 days for USNA grads, I can’t recall - a glorious period of unfettered time off.

 

[Devil Doc]

@Capt MJ do midshipmen earn leave while at the academy? I suppose they do since they are active duty.

 

[Capt MJ]

@Capt MJ do midshipmen earn leave while at the academy? I suppose they do since they are active duty.

Actually, no. They have scheduled leave periods during the ac year, and about 3 weeks in summer, but there is no accrual of the usual 2.5 days per month AD. That accumulation starts when they are commissioned.

As I recall, I did not earn leave at OCS as an accession point, even though I was AD. That started once I was commissioned. Did you graduate from boot camp with leave accrued? I think accession points do not rate leave accrual.

 

[Devil Doc]

Actually, no. They have scheduled leave periods during the ac year, and about 3 weeks in summer, but there is no accrual of the usual 2.5 days per month AD. That accumulation starts when they are commissioned.

As I recall, I did not earn leave at OCS as an accession point, even though I was AD. That started once I was commissioned. Did you graduate from boot camp with leave accrued? I think accession points do not rate leave accrual.

I don't remember if I had leave on the books after eight weeks in boot camp. Back then we got two weeks leave before reporting to A school or wherever but that has since changed to the new sailor taking leave after A school or apprenticeship training.

 

[Capt MJ]

I don't remember if I had leave on the books after eight weeks in boot camp. Back then we got two weeks leave before reporting to A school or wherever but that has since changed to the new sailor taking leave after A school or apprenticeship training.

The only reason I remember I had just a few days’ leave accrued after zip at OCS was the first year at an overseas duty station.

 

[Anonymous121]

The only reason I remember I had just a few days’ leave accrued after zip at OCS was the first year at an overseas duty station.

I earned leave while at Parris Island for boot camp.

 

[Dadof2]

Submarine pipeline, with its 3 main segments, is generally 2 years

2 years+ was my daughters experience. Training pipelines can get backed up. I think it was about a 6 month wait from USNA graduation to power school in Charleston. Some classmates started earlier.

As usual, @Capt MJ description of the sub selection process and training pipeline is spot on based on what I know from my daughters experience.

 

[Old Navy BGO]

There are always delays at flight school - weather, storm aftermath, any number of factors, can clog the pipeline and back up the classes related to actual training hops

Pensacola was full of delays ...and stops and starts between different phases of training, and periods of pretty intense training to take advantage of good weather, That said, there are worse places than Pensacola to be stuck doing nothing,

Another time I went to a short Legal Officer course, when collateral duty Legal Officer awaited me at my next duty station (oh doubly lucky me, but that paid off in exposure to CO/XO and my own later tours as a CO/XO.)

Pro tip -- Legal Officer is a pretty good JO job, especially in a VP Squadron where we had some 60+ officers and many of the JO's had more or less make believe jobs , My first squadron job was "Software Officer", where my only deliverable was a monthly Link 11 report, (Of course, our primary duty at that point was to get qualified in the Aircraft). That only lasted about 1 month, as our then LT Legal Officer got picked up for the Navy's Law Education Program (Navy sends you to law school with full pay and allowances--a really sweet gig) , so I got tapped for Legal Officer School. Being Legal Officer (especially on deployment) brought alot of face time with the Skipper , XO, and CMC and led to better squadron jobs during my tour.

 

[navyfamilyof4]

2 years+ was my daughters experience. Training pipelines can get backed up. I think it was about a 6 month wait from USNA graduation to power school in Charleston. Some classmates started earlier.

As usual, @Capt MJ description of the sub selection process and training pipeline is spot on based on what I know from my daughters experience.

6 month wait to get to Nuke Power school? what did she do in the meantime? did she have to live in annaopolis and get an apartment for 6 months?

 

[Capt MJ]

6 month wait to get to Nuke Power school? what did she do in the meantime? did she have to live in annaopolis and get an apartment for 6 months?

Many stash duty new ensigns and 2LTs get an apartment together while awaiting school report dates. They figure it all out.

 

[nuensis]

You can get PCS orders if you stay longer than 180 days, and that's actually preferable since it comes with BAH.

Those with only TAD orders making per diem have to find more creative solutions for short-term living arrangements. Some of them might have to go negative for a little bit, but they'll get through it and be paid later. It's pretty common to lose a bit of money up front while in-transit. You can request advance pay and allowances if needed.

In a couple years, all personnel will be required to use a government credit card to tally TAD/PCS expenses, so everyone will be covered across the board (whether they like it or not).

 

[navyfamilyof4]

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You can get PCS orders if you stay longer than 180 days, and that's actually preferable since it comes with BAH.

Those with only TAD orders making per diem have to find more creative solutions for short-term living arrangements. Some of them might have to go negative for a little bit, but they'll get through it and be paid later. It's pretty common to lose a bit of money up front while in-transit. You can request advance pay and allowances if needed.

In a couple years, all personnel will be required to use a government credit card to tally TAD/PCS expenses, so everyone will be covered across the board (whether they like it or not).

so helpful. thanks

 

[TXSUB]

I had 30 days basket leave, then stached at the Pentagon for 2 months before reporting to NNPS. Some JOs had to report early to NNPS for “pre-school.” This was a 1 month course designed to help those who had lower grades or were non-technical majors (Group III). 6 months for NNPS, a small break in between (maybe a week), then 6 months of Prototype, another small break to transit up to Groton for 3 months of subscol. Most JOs lived in the Susse Chalet (hotel) - not sure what they do now - unless you were married/kids, then you were allowed to live out in town. While in NNPS, you were given holidays off (had to take leave), and school shut down over Christmas for a week or so. Same for Subscol. For prototype, we worked through all holidays. I started NNPS in September 98 and reported to my first boat in March 2000. We put in dream sheets while in Subscol - I asked for fast attack out of PH Hawaii and got it. I don’t remember anyone complaining too much about their initial assignments. Those complaints didn’t start until it was time to pick department head assignments

 

[ders_dad]

Wondering if OOM comes into play on when you report to power school. I have a new baby bubblehead to be (early select yesterday) and trying to figure out what just hit us.

 

[TXSUB]

Congratulations! Sub guys from my class were spread over three NNPS classes, not counting surface nukes and grad school people, with the bulk of the students classing up in the middle of the three classes. Do not remember if OOM had anything to do with it. It might, but I can’t say for sure

 

[kientructayho]

Wow,
Wondering if OOM comes into play on when you report to power school. I have a new baby bubblehead to be (early select yesterday) and trying to figure out what just hit us.

 

[Capt MJ]

Wow,
Wondering if OOM comes into play on when you report to power school. I have a new baby bubblehead to be (early select yesterday) and trying to figure out what just hit us.

Once commissioned, the playing field is leveled once again. USNA OOM has no bearing after graduation. That’s all in the past.

Nuke power school classes are filled from USNA, NROTC, NUPOC program, etc., with everyone having passed the rigorous screening. Now the hard work begins of making it through nuke power school, prototype and submarine officer basic course, and the rack and stack will start all over again for boat and homeport assignment down the road.

As always, the needs of the Navy will be first and foremost.