Gov. Shutdown

The commitment is 8 years in the reserves. My child signed the paperwork. Why argue their commitment when our government is not honoring their commitment to these midshipmen? A few weeks ago they took a pledge to defend our country against enemies foreign and domestic then they were told to leave school.
 
The commitment is 8 years in the reserves. My child signed the paperwork. Why argue their commitment when our government is not honoring their commitment to these midshipmen? A few weeks ago they took a pledge to defend our country against enemies foreign and domestic then they were told to leave school.

Oh I agree with you 100%. But when we're making the argument that it is wrong to send midshipmen at USMMA home, we need to make sure the argument is using the right information. The sticking point for some has been what that correct information is.
 
I didn't mean to start a big controversy, I was just commenting on the statement from my Congressman's office.

I still believe they were correct when they told me the "Pay Our Military Act" only covered active duty military members.

And USMMA mids -- despite what Rideon400 is saying -- are not active duty nor military, and are not entitled to the exemption under the bill/law/act.
 
When there's an option, I hardly call it "obligation" but maybe that's just me....

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but never did I say or imply that their only option is to go active duty.

At this point, however, you at least understand that the information I provided is correct and that every graduate of the USMMA is commissioned as an Officer in the U.S. Armed Forces and has a service obligation to serve in the military (either active duty or reserve).
 
I didn't mean to start a big controversy, I was just commenting on the statement from my Congressman's office.

I still believe they were correct when they told me the "Pay Our Military Act" only covered active duty military members.

And USMMA mids -- despite what Rideon400 is saying -- are not active duty nor military, and are not entitled to the exemption under the bill/law/act.


So you do understand I never said USMMA mids are active duty.

What I don't understand is this insistence that members of the military reserve are NOT military. It is correct that it is different than active duty but I was not aware that some people had these types of feelings about it.

Here is a nice article about the 237 Plebes being sworn in last month:

http://www.usmma.edu/about/communications/237-plebes-join-regiment-midshipmen-and-us-navy-reserve-during-acceptance-day
 
Honestly this bill is low on the priority list, look at how many co sponsors the bill has attached. We can call our congressman all we want, but the US government does not care about the US Merchant Marine. Maritime policy in the US is nonexistent and I expect KP not to reopen until the budget impasse is solved. I expect the midshipman to lose part if their winter and spring break.

Lets remember we always do not know what is going on behind the scenes regarding bills, Washington, etc.

I will say that adaptability our mids at KP have learned is something they will fall back on. They know how to adapt to change. They will adapt to this mess too.
 
You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but never did I say or imply that their only option is to go active duty.

At this point, however, you at least understand that the information I provided is correct and that every graduate of the USMMA is commissioned as an Officer in the U.S. Armed Forces and has a service obligation to serve in the military (either active duty or reserve).

You are correct they CAN serve active duty, but I think you at least understand that an "option" is hardly an "obligation"...

"Little Billy has an active duty obligation.... unless of course.... he doesn't."

This comes down do how "military" reserves are. Yes, they are military. But reservists can run for office, participate in political activities, etc etc etc. They aren't always subject to UCMJ.

It's a weird status, to me at least. And of course, there are benefits to this status. They can be more politically active, and they can do things active duty troops can't. There are also draw backs.... constant healthcare, training, exchange/commissary rights.... and now something like this.

A guy in a class I'm in is a USMC reservists... they aren't drilling.

So here you have a school full of Navy reservists who can't "drill".... and aren't deployed....

This doesn't mean there isn't a case to be made about why USMMA SHOULD be running, but the "they're military" isn't one of them. USMMA is a service academy, not a military academy. That's not a shot at them. It doesn't make them less of a school... it just means the "military academies shouldn't be closed" is hard to extend to USMMA... which isn't a military academy.
 
Lets remember we always do not know what is going on behind the scenes regarding bills, Washington, etc.

I will say that adaptability our mids at KP have learned is something they will fall back on. They know how to adapt to change. They will adapt to this mess too.

I'm have to say this having KP friends that are involved in congress, ie staffers and lobbyists, this bill is low. I've been told congress doesn't care, some individual representatives do but as a majority congress doesn't view this as a priority. I'm attaching the link from the alumni website with regards to 4 congressman trying to get funding for KP. It's important to understand that KP is now fighting to remain open. Every day it remains closed is another mark to keep it closed. I urge everyone to contact not only their representatives but DoT and MARAD too. This thread is fun and all discussing the status of midshipman and their obligation but the reality is Kings Point survival is in question.
I want to stress this one point in the letter. "if a solution is not adopted quickly the academy faces permanent shutdown"
http://www.usmmaaf.com/s/1175/image...dership-usmmatechnicalcorrection-20131011.pdf
 
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Tankercaptain,

I have a question.

If a KP grad decides to join Army Reserves as part of their obligation, if that grad then works at Sea, how does this person drill with the Army Reserve once a month and 2 weeks a year.
 
Tankercaptain,

I have a question.

If a KP grad decides to join Army Reserves as part of their obligation, if that grad then works at Sea, how does this person drill with the Army Reserve once a month and 2 weeks a year.

Excellent question. The answer is flex drilling. They make up their drills during their off time. There are a handful of grads that do that.
 
So you do understand I never said USMMA mids are active duty.

So you do understand that the Congressman's office was 100% correct when they said that USMMA mids are not members of the military and are not covered under the "Pay Our Military" Act?

Which is exactly what I stated in Post #38, but you seemed to have an issue with his truthful statement.

No matter, KP/USMMA is a valuable resource for this nation and should be funded regardless of their military/non-military status.
 
USMMA is a Service Academy, and an extremely fine Service Academy that deserves to stay open. The regiment is entitled to carry a battle standard for service in previous wars. It is vital to our nation's well being to have trained officers transporting supplies in time of war, and at peace time. Try to fight a battle without supplies. The academics at the Academy are very rigorous,and our midshipman can not afford to have an extended time away. Just my two cents.
 
KP is closed, even the government workers that are still working are not being paid ... BUT welfare checks are still being issued. This sounds insane but is absolutely true, check any official news source. Great country we live in.
 
So you do understand that the Congressman's office was 100% correct when they said that USMMA mids are not members of the military and are not covered under the "Pay Our Military" Act?

Which is exactly what I stated in Post #38, but you seemed to have an issue with his truthful statement.

No matter, KP/USMMA is a valuable resource for this nation and should be funded regardless of their military/non-military status.


I agree with your Congressman's statement that the USMMA is not covered by the Pay Our Military Act. I do not, however, agree with his statement that they are not members of the military (as opposed to Cadets and Mids at the other service academies).

As you know, USMMA Mids are sworn in to the Navy Reserve as opposed to Active Duty at the other Service Academies. At all of the Academies, this designation is a special one designed for the Cadets and Mids while attending the Academies.

If you or your Congressman only consider active duty the "real" military, then yes, we have a big disagreement.
 
I agree with your Congressman's statement that the USMMA is not covered by the Pay Our Military Act. I do not, however, agree with his statement that they are not members of the military (as opposed to Cadets and Mids at the other service academies).

As you know, USMMA Mids are sworn in to the Navy Reserve as opposed to Active Duty at the other Service Academies. At all of the Academies, this designation is a special one designed for the Cadets and Mids while attending the Academies.

If you or your Congressman only consider active duty the "real" military, then yes, we have a big disagreement.

I think the Congressman understands the issues concerning the reserves. I guess he probably also understands the cadets and midshipmen of USCGA, USMA, USNA and USAFA are subject to UCMJ, while USMMA midshipmen are not.

But make no mistake, there is a divide in the military between active duty and reserves and a good number of the active duty guys have strong feelings about how "real" reservists are. Rightly or wrongly, there's a divide, it's real, and there are real reasons for that divide.
 
You are correct they CAN serve active duty, but I think you at least understand that an "option" is hardly an "obligation"...

"Little Billy has an active duty obligation.... unless of course.... he doesn't."

This comes down do how "military" reserves are. Yes, they are military. But reservists can run for office, participate in political activities, etc etc etc. They aren't always subject to UCMJ.

It's a weird status, to me at least. And of course, there are benefits to this status. They can be more politically active, and they can do things active duty troops can't. There are also draw backs.... constant healthcare, training, exchange/commissary rights.... and now something like this.

A guy in a class I'm in is a USMC reservists... they aren't drilling.

So here you have a school full of Navy reservists who can't "drill".... and aren't deployed....

This doesn't mean there isn't a case to be made about why USMMA SHOULD be running, but the "they're military" isn't one of them. USMMA is a service academy, not a military academy. That's not a shot at them. It doesn't make them less of a school... it just means the "military academies shouldn't be closed" is hard to extend to USMMA... which isn't a military academy.

Again, you are entitled to your opinion. But keep in mind, I am not the one who created the service obligation for the USMMA and I am not the one who called it a "service obligation".

I simply stated the service obligation in regards to the military obligation (there are other components of their service obligation). When I made my original post, you and others implied what I said was inaccurate. After all these exchanges, I believe even you now acknowledge what I posted was accurate. Your belief that it is not a real service obligation because it does not require active duty service upon graduation is noted.
 
More of an obligation of convenience. Out to Sea...just do your reserve drill later, can't make the 2 week drill because your out to sea, reschedule. Granted they will be required to make it up, when it's convenient.

You can call this as a clear military obligation, others may disagree.

The pay our military act is for active duty, USMMA cadets are not active duty, neither are ROTC cadets, they are not being paid either, Reservist and NG are not receiving their drill pay. All the above have one thing in common, they are not active duty.
 
More of an obligation of convenience. Out to Sea...just do your reserve drill later, can't make the 2 week drill because your out to sea, reschedule. Granted they will be required to make it up, when it's convenient.

You can call this as a clear military obligation, others may disagree.

The pay our military act is for active duty, USMMA cadets are not active duty, neither are ROTC cadets, they are not being paid either, Reservist and NG are not receiving their drill pay. All the above have one thing in common, they are not active duty.
What you portray as the member blowing off obligations is actually a benefit to the supported command and what they prefer.

In most units, the leadership doesn't want to see you on drill weekends. The preference is that you are rescheduling all your drills until the workweek and providing operational support side by side with the AD members. If I was a unit CO I would love having sailing guys/girls who can do all their drills in one big block of time and probably some extra too. Go to most NOSCs (formerly known as Reserve Center) on a drill weekend and you won't find many people their other than the NOSC staff.
 
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