How do average cadets/Mids get a graduate degrees?

There are 2 ways an AF member can go to grad school, and that needs to be explained.

1. Full time job is attending grad school...this is what Hornet and Eagle are currently doing.

The AF picks up that tab, because your job is to attend grad school and nothing else.

It is highly competitive to get this opportunity and I don't think anyone in the AF would say that is the way the majority get their Masters.

2. TA.

This is where you attend on your own time and the AF pays for 75% of the bill.

Your job is not to attend grad school, but to be XYZ in the AF, thus, it is a bennie for being in the AF.

This is the way the majority of officers earn their Masters.

This is the program where your time owed starts when you take the last TA and is concurrent with your payback.

It is important to differentiate between the 2.

As far as many AFA cadets determining whether or not to apply for Grad school straight out of the AFA, it becomes a long thought out process since it can be a double edge sword.

Attending grad school with a follow on for UPT will delay them entering the op flying world up to in Hornet's case 3 yrs. During that time those who went straight to UPT are racking and stacking flight hours and upgrades making them competitive for TPS and WIC. The AF doesn't send sr O3s to these schools, they are traditionally mid O3 IPs.

That means they have to weigh at a young age, before they even enter the flying world, which means more to them, since there is a high probability that they will not become a patch wearer due to age/rank.

I am sure Hornet and Eagle will tell you that they really had to think long and hard about their decision and that it was not an easy one to make.

They will also tell you that it is not a given to get that opportunity out of the AFA, whereas, TA is a given for AD members.

OBTW, FWIW, I think TA became a topic on this because the OP asked about the avg cadet/mid, and to get the opportunity like Hornet and Eagle were presented did not come about by being the avg cadet. TA as an AF AD member is the more traditional route for the avg cadet.

Hornet and Eagle are the people at least for the AFA side that you should pm regarding this matter. They can walk you through the process.

Thanks Pima, its all clear now.:thumb:
 
What year of service do most get their master degree? For career progression when should most get their master?
 
It depends on your service.

For the AF, your masters is masked until your O5 board.

However, it is important to understand they can change that anytime they want. Yrs ago it was masked until your O4 board. They will give notice of changing it several boards out, but if they do change it back you can be caught with trying to get it done asap.

Additionally, all though it may be masked for the promotion board, that doesn't mean it is masked for your PME board. Every one that went to ACSC with Bullet had their Masters completed.

The AF waits to you are later on down the line because your begining yrs is about learning your career field and upgrading in that world from an operational standpoint which for some fields is like going to school all over again for yrs...UPT is 1 yr., FTU 6-9 months, operationally 3 months, than you go for IP about a yr. From there some fliers will want TPS or WIC after their 1st/2nd op tour, and that means you start off as a student all over again. Or some fliers might be sent to an FTU squadron which means they are the student learning to be the teacher for a few months.

SO you can see for the first few yrs as a flyer you are hitting the books alot.
 
What year of service do most get their master degree? For career progression when should most get their master?

Pima is right that it depends on the service. For the USN, most get it as an O-3 or O-4. It's very hard to make 0-5 without a master's degree. In the USN, you typically get your degree one of two ways -- as an O-3 or O-4, you go to grad school at night or maybe now on-line and get it in something like "personnel management," "administration," etc. It's quick and easy -- whether you actually learn anything is a separate matter but you do check off the square.

The other way is to go to NPS (Navy Postgraduate School) where you'll get a real degree. You typically do this as your "shore" tour when you are an O-3 or junior O-4. You will then owe a 2-for-1 payback.

The above are generalizations -- there are exceptions to everything I've said. And, quite honestly, the path you take may depend in part on your warfare specialty. For example, submariners are more likely to pursue a technical degree than, for example, supply or intel officers. A supply or intel officer really doesn't need a graduate degree at all (just being honest here) but the USN demands one. There's no career benefit to getting a degree in, say, physics as there would be if you're a submariner.
 
With an average career progression, how long will it take to make the rank of O4?
 
That really depends.

The way the system works is there is a % of Flag to Field and Field to Company.

There is no true way at this point to say what the % will be 8, 10 or 12 yrs from now.

There are yrs that boards speed up and you could meet it at the 9 yr marker and then there are yrs that you could meet at the 11 yr marker.

Just like there are boards that can have a 65% promotion rate and the next one have a 80% promotion rate. It all comes down to manning.

Either way you will not make O4 prior to your dive commitment so you have a long time to think about it.

Also remember other things vary from service to service, for example the AF does not frock. So you can get selected for O4, but it could take up to a yr to pin on. Yes, a yr!

Your DOR for ROTC cadets is not your commission date. It is the avg between the commission date and your 1st RNLT date. So if you commission in May, but do not report until March, your DOR will be Oct.

AFA grads DOR is the commission date, BUT than they go by your class rank. Thus, if you graduate number 975 out of 976, you will wait until all of the ones before you pin on. That also explains why some will wait up to a yr, because if they are ROTC, they have to wait for the AFA gads to pin on 1st, and all of those before them that have an earlier DOR.

For O2 and O3 you pin on at your 2 yr and 4 yr marker of your DOR, so that is the easiest to plot out career wise.

Again for ROTC cadets, remember it is your DOR...you will get that longevity pay based on your commission date. For example let's say you go to UPT in March

You get your 2 yr longevity pay in May, than in Oct you get your promotion pay, than in March you will get your longevity flight pay.

The AFA grad will get longevity and promotion pay for O2 in May, and flight when they arrive at UPT.
 
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That really depends.

The way the system works is there is a % of Flag to Field and Field to Company.

There is no true way at this point to say what the % will be 8, 10 or 12 yrs from now.

There are yrs that boards speed up and you could meet it at the 9 yr marker and then there are yrs that you could meet at the 11 yr marker.

Just like there are boards that can have a 65% promotion rate and the next one have a 80% promotion rate. It all comes down to manning.

Either way you will not make O4 prior to your dive commitment so you have a long time to think about it.

Also remember other things vary from service to service, for example the AF does not frock. So you can get selected for O4, but it could take up to a yr to pin on. Yes, a yr!

Your DOR for ROTC cadets is not your commission date. It is the avg between the commission date and your 1st RNLT date. So if you commission in May, but do not report until March, your DOR will be Oct.

AFA grads DOR is the commission date, BUT than they go by your class rank. Thus, if you graduate number 975 out of 976, you will wait until all of the ones before you pin on. That also explains why some will wait up to a yr, because if they are ROTC, they have to wait for the AFA gads to pin on 1st, and all of those before them that have an earlier DOR.

For O2 and O3 you pin on at your 2 yr and 4 yr marker of your DOR, so that is the easiest to plot out career wise.

Again for ROTC cadets, remember it is your DOR...you will get that longevity pay based on your commission date. For example let's say you go to UPT in March

You get your 2 yr longevity pay in May, than in Oct you get your promotion pay, than in March you will get your longevity flight pay.

The AFA grad will get longevity and promotion pay for O2 in May, and flight when they arrive at UPT.

So to be on the safe side have your Master Degree finished within 7 years of your Commission date?
 
I would say so. Bullet had his done in 7 yrs, but while he started it they announced that they were now masking it for O4, and that is why I said becareful on delaying it,you never know.

Also, I would be the 1st to suggest to get it done @ the 5-7 yr marker for a lot of reasons.

1. You have made the decision to stay, so you might as well start using those bennies to your advantage.

2. If you are a flier, you would not owe a commitment back if you complete it around that time frame since you will have to stay for 10 yrs anyway.

3. That is about the age you have a lull in your career. You are too young to be a flight commander (usually occurs at the 8 yr marker) and now you have your career experience set in a groove...caveat...TPS, Thunderbirds or WIC.

4. The later you put it off the more it becomes a hassle...marriage, kids, etc start coming into play on top of now you are FCC or ADO or Weapons Chief.

Excuses can happen very easily.

5. To get a PME like ACSC, many times they want to see that you have a Masters and not only have that, but you were proactive and did in correspondence the ACSC course. When Bullet went to the sister school for ACSC, out of the 60 AF officers there, they all had only 2 things in common.

~ They all had their Masters completed
~ They all had done ACSC in correspondence...Bullet started and completed ACSC in correspondence before he pinned on O4. You can start it as soon as you are on the selection list.

You always want to be on that PME in residence list.


The AF is very serious about PME and Masters degrees when it comes to promotion to O5. No Masters and unless you are the XO for a Flag officer you can basically call it a day. No PME, even in correspondence and you can call it a day there too.

The people you see getting to that O6 level, have PME in residence, and a Masters on top of their career progression.

Now take somebody like Hornet and Eagle who decided to go the Masters/Ph.D route right out of the AFA. They also have a golden ticket for career progression.

Yes, they will most likely be the class commander at UPT, and FTU (unless they have a FAIP in their FTU). However, every time you PCS your file will arrive there prior to you. You will have a one on one with the CC shortly after arriving for your meet and greet.

In their file, that CC is going to see that the AFA sent them directly to AFIT or a fellowship with RAND. RAND is a big player in the AF, and so is AFIT. They know you were the best of the best to get that opportunity. You are now tagged as that.

Bullet and I know at least 10 people who went AFIT/Fellowship, and all of them made O5 below zone. None of them went WIC/TPS, they were strong aviators, but too old to go that route. They all were CCs and eventually Vice or Wing Kings. OBTW, we also know just as many who never went this route regarding AFIT/Fellowship, but will say those are usually patch wearers for the aviators world. One went flying and the other went education/leadership


Right now this is a pipe dream for you. It is good to have goals, but nobody can give you 100% certainty what the military life will like in 3 yrs let alone 10.

I can guarantee you that when the Class of 8 entered they never thought that the UPT pipeline would slow down to the degree that they would FEB AFA grads at UPT, washback, yes, FEB no. Nor did they think that a RIF would exist.

When the class of 10 entered I bet they didn't think that they could be on casual status as the coffee/snacko officer for 9 mos before they reported to UPT. Also remember that casual status does not mean slack off time or free pass. 2 officers (AFA grad) at SJAFB with UPT orders 30 days out got a DUI, they were told BUH-BYE!

Keep the dreams, but to be successful you need to go with the flow.
 
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Anyone know about USMA? Is there is a way to go to grad school almost directly after graduation? My parents are really interested in me taking that option if its there. I'm not, and besides, it doesn't sound likely but I'd like to know if there is. However, is there a way for the Army to pick up the tab for grad school after several years in the service and how so? I remember hearing something called GRADSO or gradso...whatever, but it was like ADSO but with grad school. I would like to go to grad school sometime down the road...just not after graduation. I think I'd be happy with not having homework for several years
 
USMA has the same system as USNA and AFA. You can go directly out of the USMA. If memory serves me correctly the USMA for yrs after yrs now has had cadets that were selected as Rhodes Scholars.

My parents are really interested in me taking that option if its there. I'm not, and besides, it doesn't sound likely but I'd like to know if there is.

This is your career, not theirs. The quickest way to fail anything is to not have the desire.

Again, it is possible, but your gpa at USMA is going to be a big player in the equation. It is not a given you will have to interview and meet selection boards.

You will owe time back, but it runs concurrent with your USMA commitment.

All else fails you can use TA to get your Masters while you are AD.
 
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Anyone know about USMA? Is there is a way to go to grad school almost directly after graduation? My parents are really interested in me taking that option if its there. I'm not, and besides, it doesn't sound likely but I'd like to know if there is. However, is there a way for the Army to pick up the tab for grad school after several years in the service and how so? I remember hearing something called GRADSO or gradso...whatever, but it was like ADSO but with grad school. I would like to go to grad school sometime down the road...just not after graduation. I think I'd be happy with not having homework for several years

I have a 2010 USMA grad here in L.A. with me. He's at Caltech doing his Masters right now. USMA will do it, but I've gotten the impression they are far less liberal about giving grad spots than USAFA, and for good reason I'd say. Experience as a CGO in a unit in the Army is far more valued than in the USAF.
 
Chockstock, there are different programs available after time in service if you would like to go to grad school besides using GI Bill benefits as well. My dad was able to get his Masters a few years back with the Army paying him to go to school and for tuition. He did have a service commitment though to complete afterwards (considering he is about three months now from hitting the twenty year mark as an officer, that wasn't a big deal at the time since he was going to stay in anyways).
 
Speaking from USNA: There are 54 Immediate graduate education spots for Navy and 43 delayed graduate spots. I'm assuming you're talking about Immediate spot so, they include 20 VGEP spots which were covered earlier, 14 Bowman scholarships which are open to submarine select engineering majors to study at NPS, and 20 IGEP spots. IGEP is up to 24 months, you can only work on 1 masters degree in most cases (some exceptions), and you must have at least 50% paid for by some tax-exempt source (not mom and dad or their employers). Normally if you're good enough to be in the 20 people selected to go IGEP (normally top 50-60 in the class) you'll be good enough to get school paid for.
Delayed includes Olmstead Scholarships, more Bowman scholarships and Navy Burke scholarships. You can google these.

The Marine Corps has similar options. I believe they share the 20 VGEP spots with Navy selectees, but that is just a guess. They get 20 of their own IGEP spots. They also have a select number of Marine Corps Burke scholarships.

These are only the options for guaranteed grad school from USNA. There are a lot of other programs you can apply to in both services (including some of the scholarships I listed as delayed). These are all awesome opportunities but expect to need upwards of 3.5-3.6 QPR for engineers and 3.8 or better for others in order to be considered. Also, you'll need to validate classes for a lot of it. Languages are also valuable.
 
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