Initial PRT failed: What's next

Questions:

FAFSA: My MID is under 21, not included in our taxes, filed the taxes on his own at USNA during plebe year. Is he considered independent or dependent for FAFSA purposes?

Regarding question on separation: If decision is made by review board to separate, do they normally allow MID to complete the sem?
 
Questions:

FAFSA: My MID is under 21, not included in our taxes, filed the taxes on his own at USNA during plebe year. Is he considered independent or dependent for FAFSA purposes?

Regarding question on separation: If decision is made by review board to separate, do they normally allow MID to complete the sem?
The review boards usually happen at semester end. If separated, they do their admin and depart a few days later.
 
The review boards usually happen at semester end. If separated, they do their admin and depart a few days later.
Thank you. Since he failed 2 PRTs, is there any chance given ( warning that you MUST clear 3rd or go home) by the review board at the meeting?
 
Thank you. Since he failed 2 PRTs, is there any chance given ( warning that you MUST clear 3rd or go home) by the review board at the meeting?
I’ll send you back to your son for specifics. I am several years removed from my time on staff there, and while I know the general policy and can look at the written guidance, how it is actually being administered is nothing I have visibility on. I am sorry I can’t reliably advise on those details.

The true bottom line is if you are in the military, you are expected to maintain a certain level of fitness. Working out regularly and ensuring competency in tested areas is expected of midshipmen as well as admirals. Lifelong PT as part of daily activities is part of the culture. And for officers, you are expected to set an example for your people, not be struggling to pass. When I was on AD, I knew any PRT failure was essentially a career-ender or at best a blot that could never be repeated. If a midshipman has trouble doing this, it does not bode well for his career. USNA takes steps now to address that, and the midshipman either overcomes the problem or is not deemed to be suitable for service as an officer.

And asking this with respect and concern for your son, is there any chance he does not want to be at USNA but has not permitted himself to actively explore leaving because of some pressure he has put on himself or concern for family? It is not uncommon for midshipmen to realize perhaps USNA is not their place after all, but can’t quite steel themselves to articulate that for fear of disappointing others, so they unconsciously allow themselves to slip academically or in the PRT, so that USNA makes the decision for the midshipman. If a midshipman has tried and given good effort, but realizes this is not their path, it’s not quitting, it’s choosing to go forward on a new path. This is why a midshipman can leave the first 2 years without incurring obligated service or having to repay the cost of their education thus far. I only bring this up because it does happen.
 
I’ll send you back to your son for specifics. I am several years removed from my time on staff there, and while I know the general policy and can look at the written guidance, how it is actually being administered is nothing I have visibility on. I am sorry I can’t reliably advise on those details.

The true bottom line is if you are in the military, you are expected to maintain a certain level of fitness. Working out regularly and ensuring competency in tested areas is expected of midshipmen as well as admirals. Lifelong PT as part of daily activities is part of the culture. And for officers, you are expected to set an example for your people, not be struggling to pass. When I was on AD, I knew any PRT failure was essentially a career-ender or at best a blot that could never be repeated. If a midshipman has trouble doing this, it does not bode well for his career. USNA takes steps now to address that, and the midshipman either overcomes the problem or is not deemed to be suitable for service as an officer.

And asking this with respect and concern for your son, is there any chance he does not want to be at USNA but has not permitted himself to actively explore leaving because of some pressure he has put on himself or concern for family? It is not uncommon for midshipmen to realize perhaps USNA is not their place after all, but can’t quite steel themselves to articulate that for fear of disappointing others, so they unconsciously allow themselves to slip academically or in the PRT, so that USNA makes the decision for the midshipman. If a midshipman has tried and given good effort, but realizes this is not their path, it’s not quitting, it’s choosing to go forward on a new path. This is why a midshipman can leave the first 2 years without incurring obligated service or having to repay the cost of their education thus far. I only bring this up because it does happen.
Thank you, i think this needs to be discussed again and how he plans to resolve it.
 
What is the fitness requirement in the Navy? Is it the same test, frequency and standards as at USNA?
 
What is the fitness requirement in the Navy? Is it the same test, frequency and standards as at USNA?
Twice a year, option for swim or row in lieu of run, standards adjusted for age. USNA standards, I believe, are more stringent than Fleet. Run only at USNA, and more demanding times, but I haven’t pulled the USNA ref to check.

 
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Twice a year, option for swim or row in lieu of run, standards adjusted for age. USNA standards, I believe, are more stringent than Fleet. Run only at USNA, and more demanding times, but I haven’t pulled the USNA ref to check.

My DS (USNA 2023) has told me that the PRT standards at the USNA are tougher than what is used in the Fleet (the USNA Command has that option). I have not confirmed this-but it makes sense. DS is a fitness intense MIDN who has maxed out the PRT all four years and served as a Physical Mission Officer (assistant) for his company during his 3C year. Future MIDN, please take this PRT seriously it's a critical aspect at USNA and in the Fleet.
 
And asking this with respect and concern for your son, is there any chance he does not want to be at USNA but has not permitted himself to actively explore leaving because of some pressure he has put on himself or concern for family? It is not uncommon for midshipmen to realize perhaps USNA is not their place after all, but can’t quite steel themselves to articulate that for fear of disappointing others, so they unconsciously allow themselves to slip academically or in the PRT, so that USNA makes the decision for the midshipman.
WestCoast, I would echo the above paragraph in particular out of an abundance of concern for your son. Their young bodies respond remarkably to exercise and nutrition. When my son was at USMA, he would text me every 2 weeks it seemed like with “Dad, I deadlifted 275!” “Dad, I deadlifted 315!” “Dad, I… etc.” Meanwhile in the 4 years he was there I think my deadlift probably went down, lol, and that’s with me training throughout that time myself. The gains they get as young males in the weight room or on the track are amazing if they put in any kind of effort.
Point is, he is not prioritizing the effort necessary to pass the PRT. Full stop. There is a root cause of some sort for that, and Capt MJ may have hit upon it. There might be other reasons, but the end result is the same. As a parent, you of course want the best for your child. As a parent myself, I would gently suggest that you make SURE to remind your son of your unconditional love, and let him know that he has a very bright future regardless of what school he graduates from. In other words, frame out a safe off ramp for his departure if that’s what happens- whether on his terms or USNA’s, so that he can go on proudly onto his next chapter. Of course if he reaffirms to himself that he wants to be a Naval officer and puts in the work, that’s great. Maybe he really just needed his back against the wall before he could tap into what it takes. But he may be like hundreds of his classmates who realize they don’t want the military life either, and that’s OK- they go on to have remarkable lives anyway. Remind him of that!
 
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Daughter tells me on a lot of occasions when we talk that for Mids that struggle with the run, she will set pace for them … she did it just very recently for another Mid that was on the verge of failing it for the 3rd time.

Honestly … your Mid should be running all the time …. Daughter is in running sports, so that’s good … but she runs 2-3 times a day just to relieve stress.

Run … run … and run some more …

I see her phone moving at fast clip around Hospital Point really late in the evening a lot of times … Apple Find-me setup between all of our phones.
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Bear in mind all of the aforementioned advice is stellar.

My caveat would be that the MIDN in question could have extenuating circumstances. Medically, mine did. Granted he didn’t fail one but he came close. He maxes all but the run and essentially just guts that part out with the help of those who support him. Many a good officer has come out of USNA without being a cross country runner.

I’m not making excuses. Time management and a willingness to take on the initiative required to be successful at a SA are critical. Not all who enter have that inmate ability and need guidance to achieve their goals. The key is seeking the help that is available if they want it.
 
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Some people (like me) are just bad runners. I always maxed every event other than the run. I could also max the swim (post USNA). I was in great shape and had no weight issues. I worked out on my own regularly. I simply had terrible running technique -- and I mean terrible. I also didn't understand how to pace myself. Even when others paced me, I felt I was more tired than I really was and thus didn't run at the speed at which I was capable. Every cycle was a struggle. I got through it but never found it easy and envied those who did.

Clearly, there are mids who don't put in the effort -- in terms of PT, academics and / or conduct. And, hopefully, those folks eventually leave, one way or another. However, most mids do try their best. It's unfortunate that we applaud those who struggle academically (for the struggle) and yet berate those who struggle physically (for the failure).
 
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Daughter tells me on a lot of occasions when we talk that for Mids that struggle with the run, she will set pace for them … she did it just very recently for another Mid that was on the verge of failing it for the 3rd time.

Honestly … your Mid should be running all the time …. Daughter is in running sports, so that’s good … but she runs 2-3 times a day just to relieve stress.

Run … run … and run some more …

I see her phone moving at fast clip around Hospital Point really late in the evening a lot of times … Apple Find-me setup between all of our phones.
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I wonder if ours have "run" into each other...my daughter runs A LOT, even after sports practice to clear her mind.
Thank you, i think this needs to be discussed again and how he plans to resolve it.
Has he tried the couch to 5k app? Maybe running intervals on a treadmill will help. Can his roommate(s) help? My daughter is athletically gifted and will run with her roommate, who isn't a great runner and struggles with the PRT. Sometimes a buddy can motivate you!
 
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