Ivy League/UC's vs. Academies

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cyclist2028

USAFA Hopeful Class of '28
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Is USNA's (and the other service academies) academic requirements (GPA, class rank, AP's) similar to the Ivy League and UC schools' admissions process?
 
If you compare just the academic requirements of SAs and other top schools, it would not be a fair comparison. There are a variety of factors that make admission process to SAs harder, longer and pain in the a**. Most top schools criteria is limited to academic, ECs but the SAs require one to go thru the medical, physical fitness and nomination process. The academics look at a candidate as a scholar, leader and athlete.

There are top students in SAs who could have gotten admission to any top school in the country and to be fair there are top students in ivy leagues colleges who could have gotten admission to SAs provided there is a desire to serve and the will to go thru the process.
 
I think the Ivies have higher average test scores than the academies, which the UC schools don’t even use. As for GPA, that varies so much based on school and courseload that it’s probably not worth much for comparing selectivity. Similar with class rank—In some really competitive high schools the kids ranked lower may still be competitive. Admissions boards account for this when they assess records but it’s hard to tell for someone on the outside. The most recent Naval Academy class profile should be floating around somewhere on the Admissions website. You also have to keep in mind that if you apply, you’re competing in your nominating district.

It really is an apples and oranges comparison. Ivy League schools send graduates to enter professions in law, business, politics, medicine, academia, and the sciences. Obviously the academies are only in the business of churning out military officers. So does it really make sense to compare the admissions standards—I’m not sure.
 
UC's have cut and dry hard requirements (i.e. if you don't meet the listed requirements you need not apply) for both courses and GPA: https://admission.universityofcalif...man-requirements/subject-requirement-a-g.html

If that's what you're referring to, no, USNA does not have an equivalent list of hard requirements, only recommendations: https://www.usna.edu/Admissions/Apply/General-Advice-for-Grades-9-12.php

I fondly remember "repurposing" my USNA essays for my UC applications. Worked out pretty well, so I guess you could say they're similar applications.
 
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I went through a similar thought process with my DS recently and maybe there is a deeper question behind your question. DS is an applicant for c/o 2026 and he is academically competitive for Ivies and Cal schools. So he had to decide what was the better route for him. He has a strong desire to serve in the Navy so USNA certainly has the emotional attraction. But rationally would he get a better education and do better going to MIT or Stanford or GaTech and then doing OCS or just going into private / corporate life? After talking to several USNA graduates, both young and old, as well as researching the academics the conclusion was that USNA is probably somewhere around the 10th best engineering school, BUT no other school delivers that education along with the character / leadership development and the world wide deployments in a wide range of challenging fields. After your service commitment, if you desire to jump to corporate life, you are sought after as a SA graduate because you know how to lead and you are of good moral character. So after all that research and thinking, he settled on USNA being his top choice.

One thing about comparing GPAs, class rank, etc. is that the academies have to build a portrait of the country, as well as other non-academic considerations. Until recently, Ivies and UC were mostly noted for pure academics, regardless of other considerations. Maybe that is shifting now, for better or worse, but the academies have shown they mastered that approach long ago.
 
Having observed for a few years now (and having many of the same questions that the OP has) it is my opinion that from a strictly academics point of view, USNA is not in the same group as Ivies. It has to do with competition in the classroom and time for more in depth study and elective. USNA has a different purpose and if you don’t accept that, then comparing USNA with an Ivy is meaningless. In a typical classroom at an Ivy (or Cal Tech etc.) just about every student was a superstar academically (35-36 ACT etc). Not the case at USNA - you might have a couple but not the whole class. If all you are looking for is the highest academic rigor, it won’t be USNA. But academics is only a part of the USNA package and when you factor that in, it’s pretty mind blowing.
 
There are folks who attend SAs who'd never get into an Ivy -- and many who would. There are some who attend an Ivy who would never get into a SA nor would you ever want them in the military. There are many who have attended an Ivy for one or more years (rarely have even graduated!) and then attend a SA. And probably some who leave a SA and go on to an Ivy.

Keep in mind that, like most colleges and universities, Ivies are looking for a broader mix of students than SAs. They want some who are exceptional musicians or artists. They want people who want to pursue women's studies or Black studies. They want people who are focused on journalism or nursing or medicine as (an immediate) future.

So, for example, if you've never taken a science course after 10th grade but have great grades in the humanities and are a national-level pianist, you might have a place at an Ivy. Probably not at a SA.

If you are the second coming of Albert Einstein in STEM but have never played a sport and are serious overweight, you probably have a place at an Ivy. Not at a SA.

That's not to say that there aren't great artists or pianists at SAs. But the mission of SAs is not to produce leaders in all fields -- it's to produce leaders for the military (and eventually for the civilian world). So, as someone above said, it really is apples and oranges.
 
nuensis said:
Sure, but wouldn't advise an applicant to go ahead and ignore requirements stated on the website.
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True that any UC applicant would be advised to meet the stated requirements as best possible, but as indicated in the report posted above, there are numerous methods by which less qualified applicants are selected over those more qualified. Just one example - the minimum 3.0 GPA does not consider that all GPA's are not equal. Compounding this is that private high schools are rated lower than public high schools, and out of state boarding schools even lower, even though the applicant is a CA resident.
 
eunice said:
Is USNA's (and the other service academies) academic requirements (GPA, class rank, AP's) similar to the Ivy League and UC schools' admissions process?
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What is your calling? Where are you headed? These are the important questions.

SAs measure you in a lot more ways than Acme U.

You could have slept thru HS with C and D average and get into a SA if your SAT is a 1600 and you are a 4-Star recruited athlete.
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Speaking as a manager at a certain large tech company based in CA - you will be fine with USNA, Ivy, or UCs. Non-Americans are the group that is going to be less likely to recognize an Academy (literally or performance-wise) but resumes with any of the above are competitive. Having a USAFA pedigree was a strong positive for me getting an interview. I work with folks who have degrees from academies, Ivies, UC schools, and other state/private institutions.

Looking back, had I had the option between USAFA and MIT at 17, I would advise my past self go USAFA but that's because I'm quite happy with my life path and I'm not convinced an MIT pedigree would change that.

My other personal opinion - I find vets (academy or otherwise) have much better resiliency in civilian jobs. Less likely to get flustered easily, more steady, WAY better at handling crisis, and know when to be a team player. I pop any vet resumes up the stack when I can.
 
Neither one of my SA grads would have made the initial screening for any Ivy…ACT too low. Both did well at their respective academies, even with a few bumps along the way…. Both are doing well as junior officers. I am a true believer in the process the academies use when seeking those likely to survive the SA cauldron and those likely to become good officers.

And yes, with a nod to Hornetguy, vet resumes rise to the top of my pile and always will.
 
RedDragon said:
Neither one of my SA grads would have made the initial screening for any Ivy…ACT too low. Both did well at their respective academies, even with a few bumps along the way…. Both are doing well as junior officers. I am a true believer in the process the academies use when seeking those likely to survive the SA cauldron and those likely to become good officers.

And yes, with a nod to Hornetguy, vet resumes rise to the top of my pile and always will.
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When I have a position to fill (financial industry), a vet's resume absolutely goes to the top of the pile. They always focus on the mission.
 
Maybe this is not a popular opinion these days but, you’ve got your whole life to climb the corporate ladder - go out there and have an adventure while you can. There will be jobs for you when you’re done. Go write some good stories you can tell your grandchildren.
 
ders_dad said:
Maybe this is not a popular opinion these days but, you’ve got your whole life to climb the corporate ladder - go out there and have an adventure while you can. There will be jobs for you when you’re done. Go write some good stories you can tell your grandchildren.
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Exactly …

Don’t draw me a map unless you have been there. Don’t write me a story unless you have been there. The list goes on and on …

There is No substitute for experience … whether you roughed it in the Military, or you did your time in Public service, or you may have lived on the edge like the American adventurer and novelist Jack London.
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Plus the UC and possibly the IVYs manicure what the student body should look like
 
Huursoldaat said:
I went through a similar thought process with my DS recently and maybe there is a deeper question behind your question. DS is an applicant for c/o 2026 and he is academically competitive for Ivies and Cal schools. So he had to decide what was the better route for him. He has a strong desire to serve in the Navy so USNA certainly has the emotional attraction. But rationally would he get a better education and do better going to MIT or Stanford or GaTech and then doing OCS or just going into private / corporate life? After talking to several USNA graduates, both young and old, as well as researching the academics the conclusion was that USNA is probably somewhere around the 10th best engineering school, BUT no other school delivers that education along with the character / leadership development and the world wide deployments in a wide range of challenging fields. After your service commitment, if you desire to jump to corporate life, you are sought after as a SA graduate because you know how to lead and you are of good moral character. So after all that research and thinking, he settled on USNA being his top choice.

One thing about comparing GPAs, class rank, etc. is that the academies have to build a portrait of the country, as well as other non-academic considerations. Until recently, Ivies and UC were mostly noted for pure academics, regardless of other considerations. Maybe that is shifting now, for better or worse, but the academies have shown they mastered that approach long ago.
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Curious if your son has been accepted to usna or any top private colleges yet?
 
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