Mother thinks attending academy is terrible idea. Questions about post service life.

Perhaps these are some of mom's concerns:

Junior will never be home for Christmas (Thanksgiving, Easter, Independence Day...). Not so! Junior will indeed miss some holidays. But guess what? Junior's gonna miss 'em when s/he steps out into the real world and gets sent to China for two years, or to Brazil, or joins the Peace Corps in Ghana. Will he miss them "forever?" No, and you'll love those holidays you do have together.

Junior is being trained to kill people. Seriously? The biggest part of being an officer is to lead people, and to make sure everyone comes home safe! I can't even address that "our military kills people" remark because we live in a very dangerous world, and I am thankful that someone protects me from people who really would prefer to kill me.

Junior is a liberal (or conservative); s/he won't fit in. People of every political stripe serve their country, with valor and honor. Same with women, gays, lesbians, Muslims, Jews, Christians, atheists.

It's not "real" college. Take a look at the Academy's website. It's "real" college, and a whole lot more! One of the most diverse and intense list of core classes, and everyone earns a B.S., even the History major.

Those are some of the common objections, though there are many others.

In a world of "who you know" means more than "what you know," I can think of very few other paths to financial independence than a US Service Academy.
 
As a mother who would prefer her son to be anywhere but the military, the link above would only give me the ammo to encourage my son to apply to any of the other 22 on that list that did not come with a service commitment. ;)

Be careful what you share with your mom; a list like the above could backfire. If you will be 18 before appointments come out, it really doesn't matter what your parents think. Be respectful as you go through the process and be the best cadet/mid/officer you can be. Ultimately, it's your life and your choice. Good luck.

(BTW: One of the schools on that Forbe's list was our son's plan B. I sigh every time I think of it and post-college earnings never hit our radar screen.)
 
Just wait till your Daughter/Son chooses USMC out of USNA and see what his/her mother thinks. It took a while for her mother to calm down. My brother in law works for a fortune five hundred and they regard service academy graduates in the top tier of people they would like to hire after their commitment. USMC, your best friend or your worst enemy. That might work in the corporate world!
 
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Velveteen: They make their choices and we can only stand back and applaud and be proud. They are adults who will chart their own course. I agree, good luck to all who have chosen to dedicate time to service of their country. My oldest came out of the blue with USNA application and graduated in her Marine Blue. Another chose commission in his Navy Whites to USNR (Captain Phillips gave him his diploma because they could not get Tom Hanks).
 
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I like money too...but its also about the service! Besides, I wouldn't worry too much about missing out on lucrative opportunities...many of the Firsties I knew as a plebe are getting out now and the West Point grad -> MBA route seems to be pretty popular
 
Chockstock said:
I like money too...but its also about the service! Besides, I wouldn't worry too much about missing out on lucrative opportunities...many of the Firsties I knew as a plebe are getting out now and the West Point grad -> MBA route seems to be pretty popular
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The MBA field seems a bit saturated. I think JDs are headed in that direction too.
 
Have some fun with this search exercise with LinkedIn Advanced Search at desktop/laptop, don't believe you can do in app.

Open Advanced Search for people.
Leave name blank.
For School, enter Service Academy of choice.
For Company, enter Fortune 500 company, aerospace/defense company, blue chip company.

All the grads at that company will pop, if they are on LI and have listed their school. Browse their profiles (can do this in Private mode if you have LI account) and piece out their paths to CEO, COO, EVP, SBP, owner, Project Manager, etc., either after a full career in uniform or after 5-10 years. Most will have Master's degrees and professional certifications.

I have done this for parents of USNA sponsor mids, who worried their DS/DD wouldn't be able to get a job if "all" they knew how to do was drive a ship or sub, for example. Eye-opening.

I also showed them all the recruiting and placement firms that pursue separating junior officers, helping them land at Fortune 500 companies who hire these firms. Lucas Group is an example.

I show them the Service Academy Career Conference (SACC) site, Military MOJO, MOAA Career Transition, etc.
 
Capt MJ said:
Have some fun with this search exercise with LinkedIn Advanced Search at desktop/laptop, don't believe you can do in app.

Open Advanced Search for people.
Leave name blank.
For School, enter Service Academy of choice.
For Company, enter Fortune 500 company, aerospace/defense company, blue chip company.

All the grads at that company will pop, if they are on LI and have listed their school. Browse their profiles (can do this in Private mode if you have LI account) and piece out their paths to CEO, COO, EVP, SBP, owner, Project Manager, etc., either after a full career in uniform or after 5-10 years. Most will have Master's degrees and professional certifications.

I have done this for parents of USNA sponsor mids, who worried their DS/DD wouldn't be able to get a job if "all" they knew how to do was drive a ship or sub, for example. Eye-opening.

I also showed them all the recruiting and placement firms that pursue separating junior officers, helping them land at Fortune 500 companies who hire these firms. Lucas Group is an example.

I show them the Service Academy Career Conference (SACC) site, Military MOJO, MOAA Career Transition, etc.
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Yes, after 5 years Lucas Group and their shady peers are happy to farm you out to a job you're only marginally interested in, in a place you don't want to live, because they get paid to do so.
 
scoutpilot said:
Yes, after 5 years Lucas Group and their shady peers are happy to farm you out to a job you're only marginally interested in, in a place you don't want to live, because they get paid to do so.
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Scout, sorry to hear your experience/view of Lucas is negative; I am sure they are not perfect. I can only speak to the positive experiences of peers, former JOs and USNA sponsor alumni who have landed well at Michelin, Coca-Cola, IBM, etc.

I think the prudent separating JO uses a variety of tools to find a good fit for job, location, etc., to potentially include a placement firm, JO portals at defense/space companies, veteran crosswalks, degreed veteran events, connecting with veteran recruiters, SA/college alumni career events, and the biggie, networking.

I can see where the firms such as Lucas, who are compensated "finder's fee style," by the companies who hire them, and whose recruiters are in turn compensated by successful hire count, could create an atmosphere where a less principled recruiter anxious to earn, would push a client toward a less than ideal job/location. I will update my advice to separating JOs to encourage them to tap into a wide range of career transition resources. That's just smarter all around.
 
Capt MJ said:
Scout, sorry to hear your experience/view of Lucas is negative; I am sure they are not perfect. I can only speak to the positive experiences of peers, former JOs and USNA sponsor alumni who have landed well at Michelin, Coca-Cola, IBM, etc.

I think the prudent separating JO uses a variety of tools to find a good fit for job, location, etc., to potentially include a placement firm, JO portals at defense/space companies, veteran crosswalks, degreed veteran events, connecting with veteran recruiters, SA/college alumni career events, and the biggie, networking.

I can see where the firms such as Lucas, who are compensated "finder's fee style," by the companies who hire them, and whose recruiters are in turn compensated by successful hire count, could create an atmosphere where a less principled recruiter anxious to earn, would push a client toward a less than ideal job/location. I will update my advice to separating JOs to encourage them to tap into a wide range of career transition resources. That's just smarter all around.
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I think you'll find the majority of JOs have a generally negative experience. Recently, in the USMA Careers & Networking group 0n Facebook, the CEO of Alliance, John Zornik, was so angry over one officer's tales of negative experiences with Alliance's scummy "exclusivity" clause and the pushing of poor-fit jobs to meet quotas that said CEO started publicly revealing information from that officer's application file. The CEO has since deleted the entire thread and has gone silent in the group after doing what I can only imagine was some very significant damage to his business.

To wit, the officer in question works for Google after getting his MBA at Columbia, so it wasn't a case of sour grapes. He ultimately found the JMO hiring farms are just that: farms. If you want to earn $80k gross running operations for TAMKO in rural Kansas, or want to work entry level at an Amazon fulfillment center, or work in O&G, give them a call.

Otherwise, build your network, find a mentor, and excel at your job. Then leverage a broad suite of connections for your next step. Sure, some land Coca-Cola or Microsoft from those job firms...but the role you're in matters much more than the name on the building.
 
I always wonder where the incentives align with search firms.

But to be sure, separating service members are notoriously horrible at gaging their worth on "the market."

The "we're owed a special position" mentality hasn't helped anyone.
 
LineInTheSand said:
I always wonder where the incentives align with search firms.
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Search firms exist for one reason - to make a profit. They do that by selling a product to paying customers; the hiring companies are the customers and the JMO is the product. Search firms may "finish" the product by providing training; counseling; and interview preparation, but the goal is to get the customer to buy the product.

The mistake many JMO's make, and I made myself many years ago, is that the search firm is looking out for the JMO's interest. They do care that JMO's have a positive experience, just as GM cares that its cars are not defective; people don't continue to buy from companies with quality control problems. But their primary loyalty is to the paying customer, not the JMO.

There is a saying in sales, "Don't sell a negative." Like any other business, a search firm is not going to advertise the downsides of working with them. JMO's must educate themselves on the process, read any agreement carefully, and learn from The Godfather - "It's not personal, it's just business."
 
It may not be everything you need, but I'd also like to comment that each service branches has some sort of career transition programs to help leaving service members for a successful transition to civilian career. I'm in the Army, so I am going through SFL-TAP/ Army ACAP program.
 
c.s.Apollo said:
It may not be everything you need, but I'd also like to comment that each service branches has some sort of career transition programs to help leaving service members for a successful transition to civilian career. I'm in the Army, so I am going through SFL-TAP/ Army ACAP program.
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I was not impressed with TAP... but it took me a few months to realize how many holes existed if the program.

Beyond TAP, which I attended at the Pentagon, the Coast Guard was pretty pathetic when it came to the transition process.
 
LineInTheSand said:
I was not impressed with TAP... but it took me a few months to realize how many holes existed if the program.

Beyond TAP, which I attended at the Pentagon, the Coast Guard was pretty pathetic when it came to the transition process.
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Yes, the SFL/TAP program is pretty abysmal.
 
The TAP class I attended was abysmal. Nothing like two retired Marine MSgts who have never held a job outside the USMC, in and out of uniform, teaching folks how to find a job and interview. It was a joke. I got out at the 5 year mark and was really the first out of my friends to make the transition. I did use one of the firms mentioned. When I first moved back to DC I actually volunteered to be a speaker for the JO classes they did for the DC classes. Was interesting and fun.

I agree with many of the items stated in regards to it being a farm and level of positions offered for many head hunters. The part I did like is it gave me a ton of interview experience very quickly for a variety of jobs. It really opened my eyes to what is and isn't out there. I did have some friends use the firms that require an exclusivity clause, I refused to go that route. I ended up taking a job that wasn't through this route. As mentioned networking is best, but it does take time to network. For SA grads use the network such as SACC, reach out to classmates who have transitioned and for USNA use the mentor program. If you are moving to a certain location use the alumni association that exists there. I moved a few years ago to a city I had no connections. I emailed the alumni association and within 24 hours I had a list of my classmates (and those 1-2 years ahead and behind me) in hand, a list of recommended realtors and the next alumni events to attend. My first event I was offered several jobs (I had moved to the area for one and didn't need one). I work at a large company and met with HR last year. Now any USNA grad who starts at my company I get notified. My peer is a USMA grad and he is the USMA touch point. We haven't had any USAFA or USCGA yet, but hoping to get that going.
 
LineInTheSand said:
The MBA field seems a bit saturated. I think JDs are headed in that direction too.
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JDs are far more saturated than MBAs. A top-tier MBA is still one of the best investments you can make. (Note: Top Tier is generally considered top 10 or 15 schools).

There's a ton of opportunity for veterans and SA grads at great schools. As with anything, the key is preparing.
 
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