Net Income/Salary after graduation seems very low for Ensigns?
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@JaxNavymom
I am getting a new level of respect for what our men and women in military service AND their families go through.. I hope the common man understands this.
Thank you, thank you for all what you do.
I was thinking about this, I think we should start a petition, rather ask all the presidential pretenders, [all democrats and republicans alike] if they will make all military income for [especially the enlisted] the enlisted and the junior ranked officers tax free, rather than hear their bull **** about how they all love and respect our service men and women.
The politicians are willing to give tax breaks for the rich and the bankers but these [the service men and women] are the people who keep the country safe and are willing to sacrifice their lives both individually and their family's for the sake of the country.
Sorry I had to say this, but I think they deserve this.
I am getting a new level of respect for what our men and women in military service AND their families go through.. I hope the common man understands this.
Thank you, thank you for all what you do.
I was thinking about this, I think we should start a petition, rather ask all the presidential pretenders, [all democrats and republicans alike] if they will make all military income for [especially the enlisted] the enlisted and the junior ranked officers tax free, rather than hear their bull **** about how they all love and respect our service men and women.
The politicians are willing to give tax breaks for the rich and the bankers but these [the service men and women] are the people who keep the country safe and are willing to sacrifice their lives both individually and their family's for the sake of the country.
Sorry I had to say this, but I think they deserve this.
Military pay and BAH has improved dramatically in the last 10-15+ years IMPO. Base pay from when I started to now has increased by over 1/3. And the BAH being tax free is a huge break, especially if living in a pricey area like DC. As a young officer, really get to know what the enlisted pay charts look like too. That is important to understand what your enlisted are dealing with and especially when your younger guys decide to buy a car at 18% at a buy here pay here place or the young E-3 with a wife and 2 kids.
USMCGrunt
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Excellent advice. You WILL be dealing with this as you assume command of your unit.
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That would be called pandering, already happens, and has nothing to do with respect.
It would also make a transition to the real world even harder.
The pay in the military (and the benefits) isn't bad. There's no need for it to be 100% tax free... Not even reasonable.
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Looking back, I thought I was rolling in dough as a new ensign, and I was. I will forever be grateful to the Navy for giving me equal pay for equal work, and training me in career skills still paying off for me today. A regular income, with generous untaxed allowances, free medical/dental/pharmacy, inexpensive life insurance, with predictable promotions and opportunities for graduate education and career development - such a relief to me. And fun, challenges and honorable service to the nation to boot - I felt truly rich.
It is all perspective.
Gaining my commission out of OCS straight out of college, I finally had enough income to buy a car (had ridden a bicycle all through HS and college) and get a credit card based on my O-1 pay. Bless NFCU. My college tuition, fees, books and room had been covered by a merit scholarship. My parents bought me a meal plan each semester, paid for the college health plan and put $300 in my checking account every September, having taught me how to budget. I took the Greyhound bus (ugh) home on breaks. All my play/clothes/treat money came from 2 part-time campus jobs and a business I built up myself. Computers at that time were mainframes, and PCs a few years into the future. All pre-Internet and online anything. Students hand wrote their papers, unless they had a typewriter (20th c tech). I saved up, bought a used IBM Selectric typewriter and typed papers for students and profs. Buck a page to type it just as you wrote it. Two bucks if I corrected your spelling and grammar. $25 - $45 for a consultation on your outline, depending on paper length, plus typing fee (packages and semester packages available), but I wouldn't write your paper or do your thinking for you. I threw in a nice cover, and all the footnotes, references, annexes, etc., were professionally done. The profs got to know my work, and I started doing their academic papers. I charged them double. I knew exactly how much I could book and complete. There were plenty of wealthy (to me) kids at my school who had the funds to pay me. I built up my emergency and savings funds, saved up for beach weekends and that special dress, drank a lot of water when friends drank beer, became a creative cook when it came to ramen noodles and box mac 'n' cheese. I graduated from college with zero debt, and though accepted into various grad schools with grants, I took a deep breath and made a huge and unusual course change to head to OCS. That's another story that involves naval aviators, officer recruiters, in summer whites, at an info table in the student union.
I carried on with my habits of budgeting and investing, living within my means but also enjoying life, married someone with the same habits, and we are blessed at this point in our lives.
The point to my sharing this is that the 0-1 full benefits package, along with the skills being learned, lays a solid foundation for both financial stability and career viability, whether staying for the initial obligation or years beyond that. IF the ensign or second lieutenant does smart things from the get-go, and practices discipline when it comes to "need vs. want" decisions!
And, that first car purchase? A genuine ensign-mobile, a taxicab yellow Triumph TR-7. My weakness ever since, budget permitting, after all other short/mid/long-term financial agendas determined to be in good shape, is a performance sports car. I think it's because of all those hours on a bike in HS and college, not riding for fun or fitness, but getting somewhere, whatever the weather.
It is all perspective.
Gaining my commission out of OCS straight out of college, I finally had enough income to buy a car (had ridden a bicycle all through HS and college) and get a credit card based on my O-1 pay. Bless NFCU. My college tuition, fees, books and room had been covered by a merit scholarship. My parents bought me a meal plan each semester, paid for the college health plan and put $300 in my checking account every September, having taught me how to budget. I took the Greyhound bus (ugh) home on breaks. All my play/clothes/treat money came from 2 part-time campus jobs and a business I built up myself. Computers at that time were mainframes, and PCs a few years into the future. All pre-Internet and online anything. Students hand wrote their papers, unless they had a typewriter (20th c tech). I saved up, bought a used IBM Selectric typewriter and typed papers for students and profs. Buck a page to type it just as you wrote it. Two bucks if I corrected your spelling and grammar. $25 - $45 for a consultation on your outline, depending on paper length, plus typing fee (packages and semester packages available), but I wouldn't write your paper or do your thinking for you. I threw in a nice cover, and all the footnotes, references, annexes, etc., were professionally done. The profs got to know my work, and I started doing their academic papers. I charged them double. I knew exactly how much I could book and complete. There were plenty of wealthy (to me) kids at my school who had the funds to pay me. I built up my emergency and savings funds, saved up for beach weekends and that special dress, drank a lot of water when friends drank beer, became a creative cook when it came to ramen noodles and box mac 'n' cheese. I graduated from college with zero debt, and though accepted into various grad schools with grants, I took a deep breath and made a huge and unusual course change to head to OCS. That's another story that involves naval aviators, officer recruiters, in summer whites, at an info table in the student union.
I carried on with my habits of budgeting and investing, living within my means but also enjoying life, married someone with the same habits, and we are blessed at this point in our lives.
The point to my sharing this is that the 0-1 full benefits package, along with the skills being learned, lays a solid foundation for both financial stability and career viability, whether staying for the initial obligation or years beyond that. IF the ensign or second lieutenant does smart things from the get-go, and practices discipline when it comes to "need vs. want" decisions!
And, that first car purchase? A genuine ensign-mobile, a taxicab yellow Triumph TR-7. My weakness ever since, budget permitting, after all other short/mid/long-term financial agendas determined to be in good shape, is a performance sports car. I think it's because of all those hours on a bike in HS and college, not riding for fun or fitness, but getting somewhere, whatever the weather.
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I don't know if any of you have the USAA app, but if you do, they have this nifty little military pay calculator given branch of service, rank, number of years, and location. On the home page, scroll down to Military Life, then Joining the Military, then Find Out How Much You Could Earn In The Military.
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As I mentioned in the post, I have no clue about military pay and how far the dollar will stretch. Especially with the cost of apartment rental and other monthly expenses.
I truly appreciate the valuable input everyone has provided, it is enlightening.
And thank you for going easy on me for this question..
Thanks again.
Many grads have roommates for houses or apartments when they are first commissioned. This helps not only with rental costs but also with sharing the costs of utilities.
You don't have to go from nothing to fully furnished. You can start with a couple things and add as you need to. I worked with a futon, a bookshelf, a dresser and kitchen basics for almost a year.
You may find that older friends and relatives are happy to find a home for solid used furniture that they no longer need. We are still using a few pieces from our ensign days, and that is many years ago.
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Pay is identical regardless of commissioning source, but I think the previous poster was trying to point out the benefit of not having a college loan to pay off if one was an academy grad or had been on a ROTC scholarship (or at least lower loan amounts).
USNA does repost the list that puts them at the top for pay for graduates. However, if you dig into that particular list, you will probably find that it is from Payscale.com, which is using self-reported numbers from an unknown number of alumni from each school, and more importantly, that it doesn't include active duty military pay in its calculations (which in my mind, makes it pretty useless at least for the early career comparison point). I cringe every time I see USNA repost the new year's list, because it is a pretty bogus ranking in my mind.
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One big improvement in my mind is that the GI Bill is now a straight benefit, based on time served, rather than something the service member has to contribute to in order to get. I remember getting special request chits from E-5's who were asking to suspend their GI Bill contributions because they needed the extra $100-200 per month. I signed them, but I really wondered how many would ever start it back up again.
Pima
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My DS is also AF like Stealths. He was a UPT student in TX that lived on base so he had no BAH, just base pay and the $125 flight pay, plus BAS. His GF lived in NC and was finishing her senior year in college. He paid for her to fly out to see him about every 6 weeks. He invested the 5K max in his IRA every year. He also was able to afford to spend 5K on an engagement ring, a year into being an O1 (23 yo), Once engaged, he also paid for their entire reception a year later (no credit cards... his Dad and I helped out with the other things for the wedding, but the dinner for 75 people was all on his dime). He also paid for their honeymoon too. The boy has an affinity to boys toys, such as large tvs, and every new game for his PS4, and Xbox. The only debt he had was his new car loan, and his AF career starter loan.
He purchased a beautiful 3 year old 3 bedroom home in the best school district right before his 25th birthday as an O2 in Jan 2015, and they were able to fully furnish it. Plus, another new car for his wife. They fly back to the east coast 2x a year. All the while still investing into now 2 investment accounts (IRA and retirement mutual fund) He will pin on O3 in July this year. My DIL works, but her paycheck basically covers her college debt and car payment, she is what most people would call gravy so they can splurge on a home alarm system that is a want, not a need or buying a Kate Spade purse just because it is on sale.
I married an O1. I was pregnant with our 1st born (the now O2 AF pilot) and delivered him when Bullet was an O2. I worked as a substitute teacher until he was born, so I would not consider it as full time. I had college loans and we had a new car payment. We lived in England, and we took vacations across Europe (Scotland, Italy, Belgium), not as many as the other young couples, but that had more to do with having a baby, than 2 and less to do with being able to afford to go. When we came back stateside, we bought our 1st home, Bullet was ADAF for 5 years at that point. I never worked again until my youngest was in kindergarten, or iows when my DS1 was 8.
~ We also invested heavily in mutual funds, IRA and private life insurance
Was money tight? Yes, but not ground meat and tuna for dinner every night. No offense to JaxNavy. However, it wasn't buying everything I wanted when I saw it or going to the movies every weekend, because baby sitters are very expensive either. Bullet and I would always joke that we couldn't wait until the next promotion or big pay raise (longevity) because than we would have more spending money. However, the fact is the older you get the more expensive life gets...pre-school, sports clubs, than braces, than cars, than college.
Finally, I agree with others, that BAH is a huge tax break. If you are wise and do it like the military expects you to, than you will be fine. Basically they are saying that at your rank, and family size this is what a non--military counterpart is paying for housing, and utilities. Thus, 36K as an O-1 base pay is pure discretionary money, such as food, college debt, car payment because your housing and medical are covered, unlike your college friends where their salary includes the idea that they will pay for housing and not living at home with the folks for free.
~ DS's was making 52K with BAH as a 25 yr old, and if you add in the tax breaks because the IRS saw him making 35K, not 52K he was making even more money.
Most importantly, he is happy with his career in the military and no dollar amount can replace the amount of money you are paid.
~ OBTW, Bullet did 20+ yrs. he was a WSO, not a pilot, no 6 figure pilot bonus. He got a vette for his 35th birthday, and I was just a substitute teacher. Did the typical Disney trips, purchased a car for them when they got their license, took them to Italy for the winter Olympics in 2006, and paid for their colleges. We also purchased 5 homes during the course of his career only using the VA loan 1x. That being said, I still have a 10 year old 40" tv in my bedroom because it works, and if we bought a flat screen that means the cost of us flying out to TX to visit DS1.
It is doable and easily doable, but you will sacrifice somewhere financially just like anyone else that is your age. Plus, the fun thing in life is when you are my age (50) is looking back and laughing about when you were young and how that was the best part, like a right of passage...hot check Friday, learning how to install a kitchen faucet instead of hiring a plumber, doing a DITY move to make more money instead of letting the movers take everything. I would not trade one of those memories for any amount of money, it brought Bullet and I closer than any of our non-military married friends.
He purchased a beautiful 3 year old 3 bedroom home in the best school district right before his 25th birthday as an O2 in Jan 2015, and they were able to fully furnish it. Plus, another new car for his wife. They fly back to the east coast 2x a year. All the while still investing into now 2 investment accounts (IRA and retirement mutual fund) He will pin on O3 in July this year. My DIL works, but her paycheck basically covers her college debt and car payment, she is what most people would call gravy so they can splurge on a home alarm system that is a want, not a need or buying a Kate Spade purse just because it is on sale.
I married an O1. I was pregnant with our 1st born (the now O2 AF pilot) and delivered him when Bullet was an O2. I worked as a substitute teacher until he was born, so I would not consider it as full time. I had college loans and we had a new car payment. We lived in England, and we took vacations across Europe (Scotland, Italy, Belgium), not as many as the other young couples, but that had more to do with having a baby, than 2 and less to do with being able to afford to go. When we came back stateside, we bought our 1st home, Bullet was ADAF for 5 years at that point. I never worked again until my youngest was in kindergarten, or iows when my DS1 was 8.
~ We also invested heavily in mutual funds, IRA and private life insurance
Was money tight? Yes, but not ground meat and tuna for dinner every night. No offense to JaxNavy. However, it wasn't buying everything I wanted when I saw it or going to the movies every weekend, because baby sitters are very expensive either. Bullet and I would always joke that we couldn't wait until the next promotion or big pay raise (longevity) because than we would have more spending money. However, the fact is the older you get the more expensive life gets...pre-school, sports clubs, than braces, than cars, than college.
Finally, I agree with others, that BAH is a huge tax break. If you are wise and do it like the military expects you to, than you will be fine. Basically they are saying that at your rank, and family size this is what a non--military counterpart is paying for housing, and utilities. Thus, 36K as an O-1 base pay is pure discretionary money, such as food, college debt, car payment because your housing and medical are covered, unlike your college friends where their salary includes the idea that they will pay for housing and not living at home with the folks for free.
~ DS's was making 52K with BAH as a 25 yr old, and if you add in the tax breaks because the IRS saw him making 35K, not 52K he was making even more money.
Most importantly, he is happy with his career in the military and no dollar amount can replace the amount of money you are paid.
~ OBTW, Bullet did 20+ yrs. he was a WSO, not a pilot, no 6 figure pilot bonus. He got a vette for his 35th birthday, and I was just a substitute teacher. Did the typical Disney trips, purchased a car for them when they got their license, took them to Italy for the winter Olympics in 2006, and paid for their colleges. We also purchased 5 homes during the course of his career only using the VA loan 1x. That being said, I still have a 10 year old 40" tv in my bedroom because it works, and if we bought a flat screen that means the cost of us flying out to TX to visit DS1.
It is doable and easily doable, but you will sacrifice somewhere financially just like anyone else that is your age. Plus, the fun thing in life is when you are my age (50) is looking back and laughing about when you were young and how that was the best part, like a right of passage...hot check Friday, learning how to install a kitchen faucet instead of hiring a plumber, doing a DITY move to make more money instead of letting the movers take everything. I would not trade one of those memories for any amount of money, it brought Bullet and I closer than any of our non-military married friends.
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Nothing "in particular" - grads go into business, entrepreneurship, politics, teaching, Federal work, clandestine operations, sports, public relations, medicine, writing, non-profit organizations, the law, anything smart, experienced former officers can do. Sometimes it is related to SA major or active duty skills, sometimes not.
Go in LinkedIn. Go to Advanced Search, enter a big company that comes to mind, put in Service Academy of your choice, see what grads are doing.
I think of ships "decommissioning." People usually resign their commission, but I am used to Navy usage. Or, they retire at their commissioned rank, but move to the Retired List.
Edit: of the USNA midshipmen we have sponsored since 1996, who have gotten out at the 5-8 year point, here is what some are doing now:
Michelin systems engineer (English major)
Dept of State, Foreign Service Officer (Physics)
Financial Planner with CFP, VP (History)
Analyst with Deloitte (systems eng)
Program Manager, UBS (aero eng)
Various DOD contractors, various
sizes, as analysts, project managers, program managers, field operations
Southwest pilot
EVP with private banking firm (poli sci)
Two with "ABC" agencies, in the field
AVP Comptroller, major airline HQ, (Q Econ)
CEO non-profit he started
Doctor (submariner who used GI Bill)
Large animal vet (SWO who used GI Bill)
Nurse practitioner (SWO who used GI Bill)
Just a sampling.
Go in LinkedIn. Go to Advanced Search, enter a big company that comes to mind, put in Service Academy of your choice, see what grads are doing.
I think of ships "decommissioning." People usually resign their commission, but I am used to Navy usage. Or, they retire at their commissioned rank, but move to the Retired List.
Edit: of the USNA midshipmen we have sponsored since 1996, who have gotten out at the 5-8 year point, here is what some are doing now:
Michelin systems engineer (English major)
Dept of State, Foreign Service Officer (Physics)
Financial Planner with CFP, VP (History)
Analyst with Deloitte (systems eng)
Program Manager, UBS (aero eng)
Various DOD contractors, various
sizes, as analysts, project managers, program managers, field operations
Southwest pilot
EVP with private banking firm (poli sci)
Two with "ABC" agencies, in the field
AVP Comptroller, major airline HQ, (Q Econ)
CEO non-profit he started
Doctor (submariner who used GI Bill)
Large animal vet (SWO who used GI Bill)
Nurse practitioner (SWO who used GI Bill)
Just a sampling.
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Navy92
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Thank you. I didn't "decommission."
This varies by the individual and when someone who gets out. Someone 5-7 years getting out is different than a retired 0-6. CAPT MJ gives a great sample. Similiar list of jobs friends who got out earlier. Academy grads are often sought after for leadership and management positions. The one thing I have found common across the board for all my buddies... Every job is what you make of it. Don't expect it to be handed to you. Get your foot in the door and make it your own. Push, lead, anticipate, make it your own, go do amazing things. Improvements, ideas, anticipation are encouraged and why officers transition well and make good leaders in a company. All of us have grown quickly in our organizations and moved up the chain rather quickly. It has taken some of us awhile to figure out what we really want to do when we grow up, but the great part of being a civilian, you can change or quit whenever you want!