NROTC Tier 3 or enlist......

MorningMommy

MorningMommy

5-Year Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
16
Hello everyone,

I have been lurking for a while now and was hoping some of the knowledgable voices could help...

My daughter is young but is a unique young lady who has found her resonance in the navy. She is currently a Sea Cadet, will go to recruit training this summer for sea cadets at 14. She is an A/B student, crew coxswain (will join varsity next year in HS), sea cadet (will at least be a seaman by the time of graduation), has all of her silver level awards for girl scouts (will have gold by graduation) and is working on her congressional youth award. I love her dearly, but to be honest I don't see her scoring exceptionally high on her SATs, just not her performance venue. She's a performer not a tester that way.

Her current goal is to be a physical therapist in the navy. But as a mom I see a few issues with that.ROTC only pays for 4 year degrees. The only service academy to offer kinesiology is USMA and she wants Navy. I know the chances of her getting a tier 3 scholarship in kinesiology are low - do I encourage her to enlist instead as a corpsman, she could act as a Physical Therapist Assistant then and then maybe continue her education? Or do I encourage her to get her associates the enlist, or get her degree then try to be an officer? I know I technically have time - and she could join sea perch and lose her mind for engineering, but if she doesn't I want to be the cheerleader.

Sorry to babble and thank you for any help you can give to put my mind at ease.
 
First your daughter is still pretty young. I would expect the "what I want to be when I grow up" thing to change a few more times. Of course it doesn't always change.

If she wants this she can work on getting SAT scores up. She has plenty of time to do so. There are course to aid in improving SAT and ACT scores. Also, she may do better on the ACT so she should try both. Also, ROTC and the academies consider the whole person. It's not just academics, but life experience, fitness, leadership, etc. You can be weaker in an area as long as you're stronger in others. Nevertheless, academics are always important.

As a corpsman she will probably not have too much choice in what she does. She may be able to act as a Physical Therapist Assistant, or she may not.

It may be smart to get her undergrad degree on your dime, and try to get the military to pay for follow on degrees, if she is still intent on pursuing physical therapy when the time comes. There are some scholarship programs for health professionals.
 
Last edited:
Just a few things to consider:
1. If she doesn't apply for the NROTC scholarship, she doesn't have a chance of receiving it, so apply and see what happens. While Tier 3 scholarships are not as plentiful as tier 1 and 2, they are awarded and she may be one of the lucky few.
2. If she does not receive the 4 year scholarship out of high school, she can join a unit at a university and re-apply for the 4 year scholarship as a college freshmen and/or apply for a 3 year side load scholarship. At that time her performance in the unit will have been seen and can be used to bolster her application.
3. Have her consider taking both the SAT and the ACT. The boards will use whichever is better. These tests use different parts of the brain and some students do better on one than the other.
4. The academy and ROTC are the primary means of gaining a commission. Getting a degree then hoping to commission through OCS is a gamble, as this is only used to "top off" any remaining need for officers in a field.
5. Your daughter should carefully consider if she would be happy enlisting and serving as a corpsman or if her heart is in being an officer. There is nothing wrong at all with enlisting as a corpsman and being a PT assistant, even if she wants to continue her education later. To me, the key is whether she is ready to continue her education now or is just enlisting because she doesn't get a 4 year scholarship.
 
Thanks! I know DS is young - and if it were her brother I wouldn't be posting until 11th grade, but she is a different kid all together. Her "fit" is the Navy. If there was a way to major in "Naval Sciences" there it would be. Her BMR average is 96. Her commanders are already mentioning Annapolis and taking her there this April, her not her group. I swear she looks at me and her father askew b/c we haven't served like it would've given her an edge. I do hope through Sea Perch and advance trainings she will get bitten by the engineering bug but I am not sure. If so - I think were golden except for the SATs. For freshman year we will get her a SAT and ACT book for her to see which seems a better fit. As a mom its just a little fast - but I as a mom I would like to be a head of it. How important are SAT and ACT scores for a NROTC scholarship - what if she still has this glowing support from her commanders?
 
MorningMommy said:
Thanks! I know DS is young - and if it were her brother I wouldn't be posting until 11th grade, but she is a different kid all together. Her "fit" is the Navy. If there was a way to major in "Naval Sciences" there it would be. Her BMR average is 96. Her commanders are already mentioning Annapolis and taking her there this April, her not her group. I swear she looks at me and her father askew b/c we haven't served like it would've given her an edge. I do hope through Sea Perch and advance trainings she will get bitten by the engineering bug but I am not sure. If so - I think were golden except for the SATs. For freshman year we will get her a SAT and ACT book for her to see which seems a better fit. As a mom its just a little fast - but I as a mom I would like to be a head of it. How important are SAT and ACT scores for a NROTC scholarship - what if she still has this glowing support from her commanders?
Click to expand...
When I was last briefed by NROTC on this, SAT scores were critical to becoming a finalist for NROTC scholarship.
Once you get above a score of XX. . . they deem you a finalist and spend more time evaluating you.
.
Quite frankly, throwing up your hands at this point and saying "she can't do well on the SAT" is very premature and certainly defeatist. The SAT math test is arithmetic and the reading portion not too advanced either. There are many available options to build SAT competency and the earlier you start, the better. My firstborn took the SAT when he was in 7th grade as an entry test to the Johns Hopkins Gifted & Talented program and was well above the average for a High School Junior/senior. There is no reason that your daughter can't start training/practicing and then take an SAT early in her Sophmore year. The school has no say in this, you can enroll her in the test when and where you want to.
 
Why is Kinesiology her only choice for undergrad if she wants PT school? My daughters DPT class was about 50% Biology degrees from undergrad. She said about 30% were Kinesiology and the rest was a mix of various other majors. Graduate PT schools don’t care what the exact undergrad major is as long as the 10 prerequisite classes are met and their grades in those classes are all “A”. (I’m not really kidding about that. Competition to get into good PT programs is tough.) The GRE is also very important for PT school so more standardized testing is in her future.

Stealth_81
 
@MorningMommy

I'm not sure if the USN will allow your DD to go to PT school right out of the USNA or NROTC. I know the USNA will let mids go directly to medical or dental school (I think it's up to 2% of the graduating class depending on the needs of the USN). I haven't heard any of the SAs allowing anyone to go to PT school right after graduation.

My advice to anyone who wants to go into physical therapy is to get into a direct entry program or 3+3 path. A direct entry program will allow you to get accepted into the professional program right out of HS or after junior year of college - and it cuts down up to 1-2 years of training. The traditional way is to go 4 years for an undergrad degree and then 2.5-4 years of PT school to get a DPT. A direct entry program will get you through undergrad and get a DPT in 6 years. Obviously, cost savings is a huge benefit.

Enlisting to be a PT assistant and then getting her DPT is a viable option also. She will have a GI Bill to help pay for the DPT degree.

As an aside, the military has DPT program with Baylor University. The program accepts those with a bachelor's degree into the DPT program. Training is 30 months long and graduates go into the Army or Navy (I think USAF too). Payback is 4.5 years of active duty service. Oh, and you get a salary and benefits while going to school too.
 
MorningMommy said:
I don't see her scoring exceptionally high on her SATs, just not her performance venue. She's a performer not a tester that way.
Click to expand...

I do have to wonder how she will get accepted into a doctoral program if her GRE score is middling.
 
eljay60 said:
MorningMommy said:
I don't see her scoring exceptionally high on her SATs, just not her performance venue. She's a performer not a tester that way.
Click to expand...

I do have to wonder how she will get accepted into a doctoral program if her GRE score is middling.
Click to expand...



One - GREs have a min required for entrance - she'll get that score, but for ROTC were looking at scholarship scores - academies is 1400, nrotc is over 1200 but closer to 1400 the better. Also GREs are more specific not just aptitude which is why we will also be looking into the ACT for undergrad. The issue is the Verbal score not the math per se (weaker in geometry loves algebra, will wait for HS for calculus). She likes hard and fast answers. Structure - by the book, protocal, rigor, routine. Hence the military personality.

I am not looking to make her into a genius. That isn't her. She is a worker. I teach. There are students that never have to study and will score their A and be done. My DD will study hard for that B, go back and make corrections and study them so "the next time she would get an A" - but that isn't how testing works. In the long road though that work ethic will be a huge benefit to her compared to the kid who never had to deal with challenge. She would take the honors class - not the AP in high school. It might hurt her a little, but its her.

If I could afford to send both my kids to college to major in what they want I would not worry and say join NROTC without the scholarship. No stress. She would excel. But honestly the money is an issue for me. I want her content and productive. I also want to be able to afford it.
 
Your post has calmed me some - thanks.

we are looking into the ACT. Its achievement based vs aptitude which is may be just what she needs. Being in the keystone though all we ever had was "SAT"prep. We are going to try no matter what - and are not ruling out her catching the technical bug over advanced trainings and SEAPERCH the next four years.

Her heart is not set on being an officer - its set on "living in the Navy". She does her full weekend a month like a reservist and she is sad when she comes home (not to worry really - just our life is not using military regs and I think we let her down some). She shines on a boat and in her division. Not just performance but personality. The goal is not to use the Navy to do something she likes, the goal is to find something she loves to do for they Navy.
 
The main problem with going to either an Academy or NROTC for physical therapy is that both of these programs exist with the main goal of commissioning Officers to the Unrestricted Line of the Navy (the four major groups of URL officers being Submariners, SWO's, Aviators, and Special Warfare). This is rarely deviated from and when it is, the numbers are very small and often motivated by something your daughter would have no control over (e.g. medically disqualified from serving as an URL but not from the Restricted Line. This gets into the nuances of the differences between the two, but to simplify it, RL will never ever hold a command in the Navy). Therefore, direct commission programs are often the way to go for people hoping to specialize - which often requires payment of one's own way through school.

As a side note, if your daughter is only 14, she can and should make well above Seaman before she graduates, and not to do would give up a lot not only in the potential of Sea Cadets to work for her on an application but also for her own experiences and development. At the end of the day, those are what matter, not the 96 on the BMR.
 
Your daughter sounds like future officer material, a smart cookie building a well rounded resume with athletics, service and leadership activities. Believe in her and keep her aimed high mama!

Test taking skills can be learned and are important for more than just the SAT. I took a test taking course in high school, back in the day, that changed my academic trajectory. Huntington and Sylvan learning centers, places like that, offer them today. Whether she takes the SAT or ACT (or both!) put her in an in-class prep course first. That small investment that bumps her score could pay HUGE dividends when applying for scholarships.

There's a terrific thread on here from January discussing pros and cons of enlisting vs. commissioning: https://www.serviceacademyforums.com/index.php?threads/ds-intending-to-enlist-instead.59398/. One comment that stood out to me was...
Statements I have never heard in over 30 years of service.
"I really wish I had enlisted instead of becoming an officer."
"I'm really glad I passed up my opportunity to become an officer."
OS

Good luck to your DD! My own DD starts NROTC this fall and her 2 little brothers are coming up behind her so I'll be haunting these forums for a while; I'd love to hear where your DD's adventures take her!
 
You can easily boost SAT scores by 100 points or more through practice.

The Reading portion is essentially a logical reasoning test that requires one to read critically and quickly spot the logical structure of a simple, evidence-based argument or narrative. (This approach btw supports ALL the types of reading passages, be they natural science, social science or literary. The science passages are often told through a narrative arc / story format, and the literary narratives contain highly structured analysis - of characters' behavior, change, personal development etc. )

Starting early and studying (as a reader) and practicing (as a writer) the techniques of argumentation, or what used to be called "Rhetoric", as well as simple, basic aspects of logical inference will yield large dividends. Finally, the SAT EBRW (Reading and Writing) test gives a huge advantage to people who are in the habit of reading analytically, reading widely, reading well. The more you read, and more good stuff you choose, the higher you will score.

Aim high, boost that score.
 
Speaking as a tier 3 major here... as someone that young I would say there is a somewhat high chance what she wants to do will change by the time she applies for the NRTOC scholarship. With that said, set strong foundations that will help you when being compared to STEM applicants. Starting at extra cirriculars at a young age, and then taking them over through leadership positions during junior/ Senior looks so good! Think quality not quantity. Additionally, I took the ACT.. did WAY better than SAT. Can’t help to look into that!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top