Nuclear Navy

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Computerman21

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I have recently been doing some research on being a nuclear nuclear propulsion officer in the Navy. I can find only a few good YouTube videos on the subject aside from ones on the Navy YouTube channel. I was wondering what keeps people in the nuclear propulsion officer field, aside from monetary incentives, and why people leave. The only thread I could find on this was the “I can’t see myself in a sub” thread, which was mainly on submarines as opposed to the general nuclear propulsion officer field which I am in search of information on.
 
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I’ve met submariners who can’t wait to get out and others who tattooed a dolphin pin on their bodies. From what I gather, it’s a very proud and close-knit community, and for good reason. The crews are small and get very close as they’re all cooperating to accomplish the mission while keep themselves alive—if something goes wrong and the crew fails to work together to fix it, no help is getting to them. A lot of people don’t like the idea of being crammed in a tube underwater for months on end (Which IMO is perfectly understandable), but others are fine with it. A lot of them are introverted and work well in that environment. They also have the privilege of operating some of the most advanced and secretive technology that the military has. It’s a very demanding field in its own ways, which some people have an appetite for. Definitely seems to be a community that people either love or hate.
 
How are mids getting introduced to subs at USNA these days (particularly Youngsters and 2/Cs who are not going to be able to do PROTRAMID)? I think the Dant is from sub. My DS is considering subs but doesn't know if he'll get a sub cruise this summer. (Don't mids sub select in the spring of 2/C?) His company recently had an aviation LT visit them to talk about pilot and all he could talk about was how excited he was to get out of the Navy - not the greatest recruitment method.
 
@Kierkegaard is very accurate. The “Silent Service” has its own culture of pride in its complexity and mission, and the high level of precision technology and personal resilience required to take a nuclear submarine out for months at a time, submerged and isolated.

People love it, like it, are neutral, hate it, loathe it, just like they do any other warfare specialty. People leave the service for all kinds of reasons, not just related to their warfare specialty. One of our USNA sponsor sons loved being a submarine officer, but he got out at 10 years, when he was being very successful, because he and his wife agreed their style of parenting would not include significant absences by one spouse. He still misses it, in a quiet way, but would not trade their three beautiful children or his daily involvement with them for anything. “Significant absences” are common across the Navy and Marine Corps.

You are also not signing up at the moment you go to USNA or join NROTC for a 20- year career. People who say they are “five and dive” types surprise themselves by staying a full career, and gung-ho types with stars in their eyes often leave at ADSO end.

You don’t have to decide any of that now, unless you are going the NUPOC path. USNA and NROTC are designed to give you the exposure and training you need to get a taste of the warfare communities and figure out your best fit.
 
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@ders_dad This is an interesting comment. I attended the USNA Parent Officers Conference last fall, and listened to the person in charge of overall service assignment. He explained how its done, and its fascinating. Of particular note was sub selection. In absence of PROTRAMID. He said that primarily, this community obtains most (don’t recall the number...but something like 80 pct if I recall right) of their community selection through hands on visits. As he put it ‘we get Mids in there to see all the cool gadgets, radars, technology, and that’s where they get excited for subs’. Paraphrasing. His point, was that if all communities, subs obtain most of their selects through visits.

Which makes sense. They are mystical, fascinating, and underground. Most people have seen or been on a boat or plane. Even without a visit via protramid, most people can imagine SWO/AVIATION. Subs? Not so much.
 
There’s clearly a typo or two in my edited original post. Right when I tried to fix it, the 60 minute edit window had expired.
 
Retention in both the Nuke and SWO officer communities are tough. Long work hours with a lot of time at sea makes it difficult for many to go beyond their initial commitment. It’s been that way for a long time.
 
A relative just selected subs (or, more accurately, was selected for subs) and another is a retired submariner. I think most do it for the technical and professional challenge. Almost everyone who has attended Nuke Power School agrees that it is the most difficult thing academically they have ever done. Sub missions (especially for fast attack) can be really, really interesting. People stay in the submarine community for the same reasons they stay in any service -- they love it. They also leave for the same reasons -- overworked, time away from family, great opportunities on the outside.

I would agree that many who leave any service of the military (including aviation) often miss: the interesting/demanding nature of the work and the camaraderie. Doesn't mean they regret their choice, just that the civilian world isn't all roses.
 
ders_dad said:
How are mids getting introduced to subs at USNA these days (particularly Youngsters and 2/Cs who are not going to be able to do PROTRAMID)? I think the Dant is from sub. My DS is considering subs but doesn't know if he'll get a sub cruise this summer. (Don't mids sub select in the spring of 2/C?) His company recently had an aviation LT visit them to talk about pilot and all he could talk about was how excited he was to get out of the Navy - not the greatest recruitment method.
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All the communities have Officers on the Yard who hold collateral duties as mentors for their respective community, I suppose they have different styles. Rising 3/C are very likely to get a sub cruise if they request one through their company’s sub mentor. (Although that may different this year to covid, not sure.) Without PROTRAMID it’s going to be more of a challenge to get current 2/C direct exposure to all the communities. Normally though opportunities should pop up to take a tour of a sub that pulls into the Yard. Additionally the community mentors make themselves very available to any midshipman who comes with questions. From my experience the mentors don’t sugarcoat, but certainly they are all proud of their community.

Submarine Selection is unique in that it can happen early starting spring of 2/C year, but I think most mids who go subs get it during service assignment in the fall with the rest of the 1/C.
 
Kierkegaard said:
All the communities have Officers on the Yard who hold collateral duties as mentors for their respective community, I suppose they have different styles. Rising 3/C are very likely to get a sub cruise if they request one through their company’s sub mentor. (Although that may different this year to covid, not sure.) Without PROTRAMID it’s going to be more of a challenge to get current 2/C direct exposure to all the communities. Normally though opportunities should pop up to take a tour of a sub that pulls into the Yard. Additionally the community mentors make themselves very available to any midshipman who comes with questions. From my experience the mentors don’t sugarcoat, but certainly they are all proud of their community.

Submarine Selection is unique in that it can happen early starting spring of 2/C year, but I think most mids who go subs get it during service assignment in the fall with the rest of the 1/C.
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Daughter is going through sub selection now in her junior year ROTC. Interview this year as well
 
I’m really interested in submarine service, however, I have heard from a USNA grad that it is hard for female officers in subs because of the limited female enlisted combined with limited billets+ birthings. I have also heard that there is internal tension because the O-1 female officers are taking private rooms from more senior male officers? Does anyone have experience or thoughts about what it is like as a female sub officer?
 
Kierkegaard said:
Normally though opportunities should pop up to take a tour of a sub that pulls into the Yard.
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It took DD all of an hour, touring a sub that had pulled into the Yard, to know that it wasn’t for her. 😬

Kierkegaard said:
Additionally the community mentors make themselves very available to any midshipman who comes with questions. From my experience the mentors don’t sugarcoat, but certainly they are all proud of their community.
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My sense is that regular interaction with certain officers and enlisted has as much — if not more — influence on a mid’s community choice than summer cruises.

DD has mentioned the many encounters and conversations she’s had with her company SEL, company officer, BattO, and others up and down the chain, as well as the opportunity for informal mentors off the Yard. These personnel provide great insight and perspective on their respective service communities. And they do some light-hearted lobbying too, I’m told.

In the end, mids/cadets seem to get far more career advice than the typical student at a civilian school headed for a civilian job. That’s reassuring.
 
Usnaprospectivestudent said:
I’m really interested in submarine service, however, I have heard from a USNA grad that it is hard for female officers in subs because of the limited female enlisted combined with limited billets+ birthings. I have also heard that there is internal tension because the O-1 female officers are taking private rooms from more senior male officers? Does anyone have experience or thoughts about what it is like as a female sub officer?
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Female officers are generally assigned at least two to a boat and the Navy is trying to have a Department Head as well as a couple of Div Os so it is not likely that you'd be the only female officer aboard. Considering the limited number of racks aboard, it is in the Navy and Sub's interest to NOT have there only be one female officer onboard.
I do not have first hand info about this although my son is a submariner.
 
Computerman21 said:
I have recently been doing some research on being a nuclear nuclear propulsion officer in the Navy. I can find only a few good YouTube videos on the subject aside from ones on the Navy YouTube channel. I was wondering what keeps people in the nuclear propulsion officer field, aside from monetary incentives, and why people leave. The only thread I could find on this was the “I can’t see myself in a sub” thread, which was mainly on submarines as opposed to the general nuclear propulsion officer field which I am in search of information on.
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I served aboard and qualified SWO aboard a nuclear ship which was my first Division Officer Tour and am pretty familiar with the career path and pros & cons for Surface Nukes.
Surface Nukes will be assigned to Nuclear Powered Ships for approx half of their sea tours unlike submariners who will do virtually all of the sea tours aboard nukes. When not assigned aboard a nuke ship, the Nuclear SWOs can and will be assigned to any and all line officer jobs on the the ship from weapons to operations and possibly even (conventional) engineering. Over the course of a career, the average nuclear SWO will serve more time in Engineering than the non-nuclear counterpart and will (of course) almost invariably serve tours aboard Aircraft Carriers which are generally not highly prized among SWOs. On the plus side, your enlisted folks are among the smartest/best educated group that the Navy has.
 
MidCakePa said:
It took DD all of an hour, touring a sub that had pulled into the Yard, to know that it wasn’t for her. 😬


My sense is that regular interaction with certain officers and enlisted has as much — if not more — influence on a mid’s community choice than summer cruises.

DD has mentioned the many encounters and conversations she’s had with her company SEL, company officer, BattO, and others up and down the chain, as well as the opportunity for informal mentors off the Yard. These personnel provide great insight and perspective on their respective service communities. And they do some light-hearted lobbying too, I’m told.

In the end, mids/cadets seem to get far more career advice than the typical student at a civilian school headed for a civilian job. That’s reassuring.
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Same for me - it was the smell of the re-circulated air.
 
OldRetSWO said:
I served aboard and qualified SWO aboard a nuclear ship which was my first Division Officer Tour and am pretty familiar with the career path and pros & cons for Surface Nukes.
Surface Nukes will be assigned to Nuclear Powered Ships for approx half of their sea tours unlike submariners who will do virtually all of the sea tours aboard nukes. When not assigned aboard a nuke ship, the Nuclear SWOs can and will be assigned to any and all line officer jobs on the the ship from weapons to operations and possibly even (conventional) engineering. Over the course of a career, the average nuclear SWO will serve more time in Engineering than the non-nuclear counterpart and will (of course) almost invariably serve tours aboard Aircraft Carriers which are generally not highly prized among SWOs. On the plus side, your enlisted folks are among the smartest/best educated group that the Navy has.
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What kind of advise/guidance can you give to my DD who is a 1/C at USNA Class 2022 that just recently had a meeting regarding going to Nuke school to be a Nuke SWO. She is a Chemistry Major. She is not interested in Nuke Submarine but she is trying to decide between SWO and Surface Nukes. Can you please maybe talk about pro and con of both based on your experience and what you know or heard about SWO. Thanks for your service! And appreciate very much your guidance and advise. Also, if possible, may my DD contact you directly.
 
ORKP2017 said:
What kind of advise/guidance can you give to my DD who is a 1/C at USNA Class 2022 that just recently had a meeting regarding going to Nuke school to be a Nuke SWO. She is a Chemistry Major. She is not interested in Nuke Submarine but she is trying to decide between SWO and Surface Nukes. Can you please maybe talk about pro and con of both based on your experience and what you know or heard about SWO. Thanks for your service! And appreciate very much your guidance and advise. Also, if possible, may my DD contact you directly.
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I know quite a bit about being a SWO as you might expect. Generally, SWOs are the "Swiss Army Knives" of Line officers as they are expected to move through many roles and equipment sets throughout their careers and rapidly achieve competence/mastery often without significant formal training. The Nuke subset of SWOs is a little different as a significant amount of of their career will be in the area where they've had so much formal schooling and qualification. They too will often be thrown into a new spot where they'll have to pretty rapidly learn and lead in a new to them area. SWOs also will be leading diverse groups of sailors even as they themselves are working through qualifications of their own. The Nuke sailors will be on average better trained than the average sailor but they too can be a challenge to lead.
The nuke power world has a much higher level of off-ship involvement/supervision and that can seem stifling but then its absence when not aboard a nuclear ship can be an adjustment as well.
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Your daughter can contact me directly - email or zoom, PM me as necessary.
 
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