Officer life and choosing USNA or USMA

[supersoldier0823]

Hi everyone. I have two questions that is causing me a lot of stress and making me second guess myself.

1. What is life like as an officer. What is a day to day schedule. I guess I have no idea what an officer would be doing in a typical day and this has caused me to have no idea what I want to do in the service. I have heard that even though an officer may be a pilot or part of an armory division they don’t actually fly helicopters/ drive tanks as their job but instead do more of a management and desk type job role.

2. Say I had appointments to both USMA and USNA, what the difference between officers and what they do, and which one provides better exit for people looking for civilian jobs. I also was wondering about the quality of life because honestly I do not want to destroy my body in exchange for 5-20 years of service, but I still have a passion to serve our country. I am so stretched between the two and it is mainly because I have no idea what I would want to do. I have been thinking military intelligence/finance but I also feel like if I join the army through West Point I would be selling myself short and not doing more active roles like infantry or artillery. If I were to join the Navy through Naval Academy how would someone that majors in economics or systems management get a job in the navy or does degree not play a role in what you want to do.

I would really appreciate any advice from current and former students, current and former officers, and even parents. This decision is super tough for me as it will basically decided the next 9-10 years of my life, and I feel if I do not make the right one then I will have to live with that.

 

[Heatherg21]

You can be an English major and be selected as a nuclear surface warfare officer. You can major in Quantitative Economics and be service selected as an aviator.

I will defer to others with more experience to answer your other questions.

I did just do a quick Google search and came up with this. https://go.navyonline.com/blog/life-after-the-naval-academy-what-happens-next

You might be able to address some of your concerns by doing some research online.

 

[IronmanDaremo]

I'll let others chime in, but I'll just give a short summary.

At USNA, it doesn't matter what your degree is in (with limited exceptions), you will be able to put in for any billet available that the Academy offers. There are plenty of History majors at USNA who go pilot or subs. Every degree you can get at the Academy is still very heavy STEM based.

As for work afterward? The first thing a future employer will see is USNA grad with between 5 - 30 years of officer service. At that point, they typically don't care what you majored in, because you bring so much more to the workforce than a specific degree. Years of leadership, real-world operational experience, and an amazing pedigree.

 

[VelveteenR]

1. What is life like as an officer. What is a day to day schedule. I guess I have no idea what an officer would be doing in a typical day

There is no way to answer this as it all depends on your job in the branch in which you serve. An infantry officer's job is going to look a lot different than a cyber officer's job, or a finance officer's job, or an intelligence officer's job... You get my drift?

Our cyber son spends ten hours a day in front of a screen in a windowless SCIF. He rarely sees sunlight. He just came back from five months in Qatar where he sat in front of another screen in another windowless facility (but the food was better). His job would probably look a lot different were he in field artillery or medicine or armor or chem corps or aviation or (fill in the blank).

 

[supersoldier0823]

You can be an English major and be selected as a nuclear surface warfare officer. You can major in Quantitative Economics and be service selected as an aviator.

I will defer to others with more experience to answer your other questions.

I did just do a quick Google search and came up with this. https://go.navyonline.com/blog/life-after-the-naval-academy-what-happens-next

You might be able to address some of your concerns by doing some research online.

Ok that makes sense. It is surprisingly nice to know that the government has a lot of say over what I will do because I am so lost right now.

 

[supersoldier0823]

I'll let others chime in, but I'll just give a short summary.

At USNA, it doesn't matter what your degree is in (with limited exceptions), you will be able to put in for any billet available that the Academy offers. There are plenty of History majors at USNA who go pilot or subs. Every degree you can get at the Academy is still very heavy STEM based.

As for work afterward? The first thing a future employer will see is USNA grad with between 5 - 30 years of officer service. At that point, they typically don't care what you majored in, because you bring so much more to the workforce than a specific degree. Years of leadership, real-world operational experience, and an amazing pedigree.

Ok thank you. That makes it easier when selecting a degree!

 

[supersoldier0823]

There is no way to answer this as it all depends on your job in the branch in which you serve. An infantry officer's job is going to look a lot different than a cyber officer's job, or a finance officer's job, or an intelligence officer's job... You get my drift?

Our cyber son spends ten hours a day in front of a screen in a windowless SCIF. He rarely sees sunlight. He just came back from five months in Qatar where he sat in front of another screen in another windowless facility (but the food was better). His job would probably look a lot different were he in field artillery or medicine or armor or chem corps or aviation or (fill in the blank).

Did your son study cyber security/ management at West Point? Or did he study something else and then get selected for cyber?

 

[nmabq]

As for work afterward? The first thing a future employer will see is USNA grad with between 5 - 30 years of officer service. At that point, they typically don't care what you majored in, because you bring so much more to the workforce than a specific degree. Years of leadership, real-world operational experience, and an amazing pedigree.

This. While my job makes combat communications and cyber folks my personal favorites, in my long time in the industry I’ve only seen one SA grad not get an offer. Not only will you have the quals, but you’ll be able to just figure it out and be valuable/productive out of the gate. Enlisted or officer it just amazes me how much knowledge the military can cram into a young persons head.

 

[nuensis]

Hi everyone. I have two questions that is causing me a lot of stress and making me second guess myself.

1. What is life like as an officer. What is a day to day schedule. I guess I have no idea what an officer would be doing in a typical day and this has caused me to have no idea what I want to do in the service. I have heard that even though an officer may be a pilot or part of an armory division they don’t actually fly helicopters/ drive tanks as their job but instead do more of a management and desk type job role.

Every ship is a little different, but this is a generic schedule for a division officer that's probably somewhat similar to what a lot of ships do. This is also in-port, underway schedule is primarily dominated by watch rotation and operations. There are times when the schedule gets blown out of the water (INSURV) and you just work all day every day for a couple of weeks.

0700 Khaki Call: General announcements and direction from the XO and CMC.
0715 Departmental Khaki Call: General announcements and direction from the DH/DLCPO, discuss work for the day
0730 Division Quarters: General announcements and direction from you (the DIVO) and your leadership team (LCPO/LPO), discuss work for the day
0745 Sweepers (clean stuff)
0800-1200 Work: prepare, review, and sign various TPS reports, review maintenance, planning (read: fill out POAMs), spot checks, zone inspections, berthing inspections, work on qualifications, etc. Varies drastically depending on billet and day-to-day events.
1300-1500 More work
1500 Sweepers (clean stuff, again)
1515 EOD Quarters: discuss what's left before everyone can leave
1600 Drive by with the DH and go home (or not)

 

[Capt MJ]

Every ship is a little different, but this is a generic schedule for a division officer that's probably somewhat similar to what a lot of ships do. This is also in-port, underway schedule is primarily dominated by watch rotation and operations. There are times when the schedule gets blown out of the water (INSURV) and you just work all day every day for a couple of weeks.

0700 Khaki Call: General announcements and direction from the XO and CMC.
0715 Departmental Khaki Call: General announcements and direction from the DH/DLCPO, discuss work for the day
0730 Division Quarters: General announcements and direction from you (the DIVO) and your leadership team (LCPO/LPO), discuss work for the day
0745 Sweepers (clean stuff)
0800-1200 Work: prepare, review, and sign various TPS reports, review maintenance, planning (read: fill out POAMs), spot checks, zone inspections, berthing inspections, work on qualifications, etc. Varies drastically depending on billet and day-to-day events.
1300-1500 More work
1500 Sweepers (clean stuff, again)
1515 EOD Quarters: discuss what's left before everyone can leave
1600 Drive by with the DH and go home (or not)

Can’t you squeeze a nooner in there?

Nice of you to lay this out. A familiar rhythm.

 

[OldRetSWO]

Every ship is a little different, but this is a generic schedule for a division officer that's probably somewhat similar to what a lot of ships do. This is also in-port, underway schedule is primarily dominated by watch rotation and operations. There are times when the schedule gets blown out of the water (INSURV) and you just work all day every day for a couple of weeks.

0700 Khaki Call: General announcements and direction from the XO and CMC.
0715 Departmental Khaki Call: General announcements and direction from the DH/DLCPO, discuss work for the day
0730 Division Quarters: General announcements and direction from you (the DIVO) and your leadership team (LCPO/LPO), discuss work for the day
0745 Sweepers (clean stuff)
0800-1200 Work: prepare, review, and sign various TPS reports, review maintenance, planning (read: fill out POAMs), spot checks, zone inspections, berthing inspections, work on qualifications, etc. Varies drastically depending on billet and day-to-day events.
1300-1500 More work
1500 Sweepers (clean stuff, again)
1515 EOD Quarters: discuss what's left before everyone can leave
1600 Drive by with the DH and go home (or not)

A good start.
At sea, add in 8 or so hours of watch. As a Surface Warfare Officer, you'll generally be standing watches in charge of the Engineering Plant, the Combat Information Center or the Bridge, after qualifying for them of course. In the case of CIC, it can be very "Hands On" in terms of being able to actually see/interact with the Command and Control systems with lots of support from the watch team. On Bridge Watch, you'll be running the ship, managing its movements and operations in accordance with the Captain's orders. At night and/or when the Captain is not on the bridge, you're the person in charge. If there is a shipboard emergency, contact on a collision course, etc, YOU will be the link in the chain that enables the ship's response/actions.
.
As previously stated, during non-watch time, you're managing your division and the content of that varies enormously based on what division you have. As the Ordnance Division Officer (my first billet), I "owned" the ships gun mounts, missile launchers as well as the armory with all of our small arms. If we had a small arms "gun shoot" for the rest of the crew to qualify on pistols and rifles, I'd be there, and generally the second to shoot (captain gets to go first). If we're shooting the big guns, my guys might be doing pre-fire checks and I'm observing. If they were doing Magazine Sprinkler testing, it had to be observed by an officer so that was where I'd be. If we were doing inport operations/combat systems training which was pretty often, I'd be in CIC manning my battle station for practice/training runs.
.

 

[VelveteenR]

Did your son study cyber security/ management at West Point? Or did he study something else and then get selected for cyber?

He studied electrical engineering and competed on the USMA cyber team. Cyber was his first branch choice.

 

[NORWICH89]

So what do you do on a daily basis? The first answer is what ever your boss has for you. Remember you're the new guy. Are you going to get S&it jobs? Yes. are you going to have the time of your life doing them? Absolutely. Your daily schedule should revolve around (in this order) Completing your mission, Taking care of the people in your charge, taking care of your equipment. If you take care of your people the other two items will almost just happen. If you are looking for a 9 to 5 recap you'll never find it. Some days last well over 24 hours other times you depart early. In the end the job of an officer is as simple as those three items. If you ever lead by (RHIP) Rank Has It's Privilege's you will be a crap officer. if you have ever seen a chow line form up in the Marine Corps you will see the best example of how you should work your day to day activities. Leaders always eat last (if there is anything left). Good luck in your career and take care of your people.

 

[Dragomir]

Every ship is a little different, but this is a generic schedule for a division officer that's probably somewhat similar to what a lot of ships do. This is also in-port, underway schedule is primarily dominated by watch rotation and operations. There are times when the schedule gets blown out of the water (INSURV) and you just work all day every day for a couple of weeks.

0700 Khaki Call: General announcements and direction from the XO and CMC.
0715 Departmental Khaki Call: General announcements and direction from the DH/DLCPO, discuss work for the day
0730 Division Quarters: General announcements and direction from you (the DIVO) and your leadership team (LCPO/LPO), discuss work for the day
0745 Sweepers (clean stuff)
0800-1200 Work: prepare, review, and sign various TPS reports, review maintenance, planning (read: fill out POAMs), spot checks, zone inspections, berthing inspections, work on qualifications, etc. Varies drastically depending on billet and day-to-day events.
1300-1500 More work
1500 Sweepers (clean stuff, again)
1515 EOD Quarters: discuss what's left before everyone can leave
1600 Drive by with the DH and go home (or not)

The announcements each last only 15 minutes?

A good start.
At sea, add in 8 or so hours of watch. As a Surface Warfare Officer, you'll generally be standing watches in charge of the Engineering Plant, the Combat Information Center or the Bridge, after qualifying for them of course. In the case of CIC, it can be very "Hands On" in terms of being able to actually see/interact with the Command and Control systems with lots of support from the watch team. On Bridge Watch, you'll be running the ship, managing its movements and operations in accordance with the Captain's orders. At night and/or when the Captain is not on the bridge, you're the person in charge. If there is a shipboard emergency, contact on a collision course, etc, YOU will be the link in the chain that enables the ship's response/actions.
.
As previously stated, during non-watch time, you're managing your division and the content of that varies enormously based on what division you have. As the Ordnance Division Officer (my first billet), I "owned" the ships gun mounts, missile launchers as well as the armory with all of our small arms. If we had a small arms "gun shoot" for the rest of the crew to qualify on pistols and rifles, I'd be there, and generally the second to shoot (captain gets to go first). If we're shooting the big guns, my guys might be doing pre-fire checks and I'm observing. If they were doing Magazine Sprinkler testing, it had to be observed by an officer so that was where I'd be. If we were doing inport operations/combat systems training which was pretty often, I'd be in CIC manning my battle station for practice/training runs.
.

What does standing watch consist of? Do you just observe or is there specific stuff you are supposed to do?

 

[Gnarlygoat27]

Yep huge variations in branch, community, duty station, designator, qualifications etc. Generally after commissioning you'll have a training pipeline that can last anywhere from six months to three years depending, or more for med school. Flight school gets backed up. Not a lot of usna grads go straight into the intel community but there are a handful. Not a bad thing to be an unrestricted line officer first to learn the fleet. Once there you'll spend time working on getting qualified for your warfare pin (swo, wings, dolphins etc). You're learning and studying while simultaneously leading sailors in your division/department, doing whatever you're tasked with, there is lots of paperwork, briefs, debriefs, powerpoint slides, and logs to sign off. You can select aviation but not actually be a pilot. You can be a navigator, weapons officers. It all kind of sorts itself out in the process and there's no controlling or predicting how your experience will play out.

DH was in subs (history major so like someone said before, doesn't matter) and then "laterally transferred" into intel after 8 years, which is usually an application process but it's not like there aren't chances to change things if you "make the wrong decision." At that point he was a fairly seasoned lieutenant and most everyone else was the same or younger in his basic intel class. But being the old guy he had a lot of experiences to pull from and excelled. I've never experienced something like a 9-5 job with him, except one brief tour at the Pentagon was pretty slack because he was too junior to be trusted with a lot but he loved it. I'd say 11-14 hour days is the norm, sometimes more and when deployed he's easily worked 18 hour days/7 days a week. And yeah, no RHIP attitude. If anything rank has longer days and more responsibility, as it should be. There are a lot of perks and privileges that come along too. A lot of people use one of their first couple shore tours to get a masters degree, often on the governments dime if you're willing to serve longer. There are TONS of opportunities available and I highly encourage you to research those when the time comes but don't worry about that stuff now. Mine waited a little bit for the right time and there were sacrifices to make it happen but was able to get his at Harvard, no out of pocket cost to us and maintained his salary too. Then just so happened to be offered the chance to get a second masters later. He's not ready to get out yet but I have no worry about him being employable in the civilian sector.

Anyway, almost impossible to answer this question completely and that's just been his experience (I've been along for the ride since his third class year at usna) but you will be well prepared, well trained, well educated, and well ready to make the life decisions you need to by the time you need to. Don't stress too much now! Wait until your kid is trying to sign up for this life and you're supposed to be prepping your house for yet another move overseas but instead reading SAF!

 

[OldRetSWO]

The announcements each last only 15 minutes?

What does standing watch consist of? Do you just observe or is there specific stuff you are supposed to do?

Officers Call might have 15 mins of announcements or discussions of what the command is doing that day, etc. In high school-like terms it is "homeroom period" and first its the upper echelon (teachers) who then go out to classrooms with their students.
.
Standing watch depends on the specific watch. For Bridge watches though. Some biggies that the Officer of the Deck is in charge of/does
- Keep abreast of the contact situation - where are other ships, is there a risk of collision, if so what are you going to do about it
- Execute Ship's schedule - take actions to keep the ship on course and on time to get where it is supposed to be as well as ensuring announcements are made, appropriate equipment is online and running when needed.
- Respond to emergencies appropriately - enemies, man overboard, equipment casualty, fire, flooding, Know what to do and DO it in a timely fashion.
- Keep station if required - you know how the blue angels fly a precise distance from the plane next to them? Well, do that with a ship.
- Maneuver as needed for the above while not getting into the way of other ships or otherwise endangering your ship.
- Maintain situational awareness of what is happening inside your ship (equipment issues/changes) as well as outside with other ships, aircraft, enemies, etc.
.
I could write more but I have to go and teach a class now, maybe I'll add more later.

 

[MidCakePa]

Say I had appointments to both USMA and USNA, what the difference between officers and what they do, and which one provides better exit for people looking for civilian jobs.

I’ve encountered many former JMOs throughout my career — mainly while attending a top-ranked graduate business school and while working for a Fortune 200 company. They were in careers as diverse as marketing, finance, accounting, operations and human resources. They came from all four DOD branches and from all three commissioning sources.

As an executive, I recruited, hired, trained and worked alongside ex-JMOs. What made them stand out was that, by their late 20s or early 30s, they had already been actual managers. They had been responsible for manpower and materiel at a level that many civilian leaders don’t reach until their 40s, if ever.

It mattered little to me what their major or MOS or branch was. Only that they knew how to lead and how to find a way to accomplish the mission. In fact, I learned from ex-JMOs the concept of PBED that I carry with me to this day: Plan, Brief, Execute, Debrief.

 

[cb7893]

Completing your mission, Taking care of the people in your charge, taking care of your equipment. If you take care of your people the other two items will almost just happen.

Making sure the people you are taking care are taking care of their equipment, because it's ultimately your a$$.

 

[cb7893]

As an executive, I recruited, hired, trained and worked alongside ex-JMOs. What made them stand out was that, by their late 20s or early 30s, they had already been actual managers. They had been responsible for manpower and materiel at a level that many businesspeople don’t reach until their 40s, if ever. It mattered little to me what their major or MOS or branch was. Only that they knew how to lead and how to find a way to accomplish the mission. In fact, I learned from ex-JMOs the concept of PBED that I carry with me to this day: Plan, Brief, Execute, Debrief.

This^^^^

In the civilian world, there is no faster track to actually managing people and hard assets than one can gain in the military.

 

[ders_dad]

With all the time demands, how in the heck do JOs find their significant other (w/o fishing off the company pier, so to speak)? The stats for millennials and younger is really dismal but throw on schools, etc., not looking good for grandparent wannabes.