Opinionated: subpar package

TomB

TomB

Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2018
Messages
140
Hello all,

I'm a reapplicant for USNA after being turned in my last attempt. I have a question for anyone who is willing to answer and it is an entirely opinionated question. I know that this question may vary from year to year with the different scores and everything being sent in but in your opinion, what would you consider a subpar package? I'm talking in terms of SATs/ACTs, grades, leadership, community service, and so on. This question may seem really dumb to some of you, but I'm curious about what other members who have been around for a while would consider a not so competitive package to a service academy or what some of the mistakes are that candidates have made in the past.

The reason I ask is that I personally in high school had leadership, community service, and academics but my test scores were below average, I was not in a varsity sport since I am a boxer who has been boxing for almost six years and still going, and I will admit my CFA could have used work at the time. I am confident in my package this year but my DoDMerb DQ is discouraging and I feel that my test scores, and yes I am retaking them, are going to be a notable disadvantage for me when I go for my nomination interviews. I received no nomination for my senators last year but I did receive a nomination from my congressman for USMMA and USAFA even though I put USNA as my #1 choice. We won't be able to do a congressional nomination this year due to the new elections or will have to wait until the newly elected congressman is in office. Any opinions/advice would help.

Thank you.

Very Respectfully,
TomB
 
One thing we have a lot of around here are opinions, so you came to the right place. ;)
If you look at the class portrait (https://www.usna.edu/Admissions/Apply/Class-Portrait.php) it will show you what the average Plebe in the class of 2022 achieved, to get there.

If you score at the national average for the SAT/ACT, that would be considered sub-par, to be sure. Those numbers are around 1,180 for the SAT and 22 for the ACT.
Not being part of Varsity athletics is a problem, considering that 93% of this year's class was on a Varsity team.
Not being in shape and not doing well on the CFA can be a major factor, as well. The CFA is pass/fail. If you fail, you're out.
Not being medically qualified will sink your application. If DoDMERB hands you a DQ and it is not waiverable, you're out.
If you got Cs all through High School and placed in the bottom half of your graduating class, then you most likely would not qualify academically.

You could be Mother Teresa and have personally saved the lives of thousands of people - but if you aren't qualified in one of the categories (academic, medical, physical) - you're out.
Last year there were 16,086 completed applications, which resulted in 1,373 offers of appointment. Not all of those completed applications were triple-qualified in those categories mentioned above, however. They never publish data on how many were triple-qualified, but let's be generous and say it was 50%. That's 8,000 applications for 1,373 offers, or 17%.
Those 17% scored between 1240 and 1520 on the SAT and 27-32 on the ACT. To be in that 17%, one could surmise that you would need to score in the upper half of those numbers, including having an above-average GPA and class standing, a passing CFA, and a successful medical exam with a nomination.

Again, if you don't receive a nomination, you're out.
Last year, did you apply to all nomination sources available to you? Did you apply for the Vice-Presidential nomination?
You say that your District Representative's seat is in play in this election, but most MOCs have a system in place to still take applications for SA nominations, even though they may be on the way out after the election. Have you thoroughly checked into the matter? Have you completely covered all nomination sources (https://www.usna.edu/Admissions/Apply/Nomination-Sources.php) available to you?

Since you asked for the sub-par stuff, this response probably sounds like a real downer, but data shows that re-applicants typically have a higher chance of getting in on the 2nd or 3rd attempt, as long as they have shown significant improvement since their unsuccessful attempt(s). My DS has a guy in his Company who got in on his third try.
It CAN be done.
 
Wow . . . there's a lot in the above post. Let me start here . . .

We won't be able to do a congressional nomination this year due to the new elections or will have to wait until the newly elected congressman is in office.
Click to expand...

That is flat out wrong. You have 3 current MOCs. You need to apply to them. If they are voted out or are retiring, they should submit their slates before they leave office. It is EXTRAORDINARILY rare for a new MOC to either: (1) pull the slate of the outgoing MOC and/or (2) select his/her own slate having been in office for about a week when slates are due.

As for what is a sub-par package . . . you are coming at it the wrong way. You need to have an outstanding package. Reading the posts and stickies on this forum will give you a good idea of what is needed. If you have a DODMERB DQ from last year, something must have changed or you will still be DQ'ed.
 
Odds get dramatically better once you’re 3Q and nominated. Something in the neighborhood of 50% receive offer of appointment.
 
Agree with the comment that you are looking at it from the wrong direction. A "subpar" package is anything, in any category, that is lower than your competition. You don't know what is in your competition's application, and certainly can't control that. All you can do is to present the best application and be as competitive as you can.
 
THParent said:
One thing we have a lot of around here are opinions, so you came to the right place. ;)
If you look at the class portrait (https://www.usna.edu/Admissions/Apply/Class-Portrait.php) it will show you what the average Plebe in the class of 2022 achieved, to get there.

If you score at the national average for the SAT/ACT, that would be considered sub-par, to be sure. Those numbers are around 1,180 for the SAT and 22 for the ACT.
Not being part of Varsity athletics is a problem, considering that 93% of this year's class was on a Varsity team.
Not being in shape and not doing well on the CFA can be a major factor, as well. The CFA is pass/fail. If you fail, you're out.
Not being medically qualified will sink your application. If DoDMERB hands you a DQ and it is not waiverable, you're out.
If you got Cs all through High School and placed in the bottom half of your graduating class, then you most likely would not qualify academically.

You could be Mother Teresa and have personally saved the lives of thousands of people - but if you aren't qualified in one of the categories (academic, medical, physical) - you're out.
Last year there were 16,086 completed applications, which resulted in 1,373 offers of appointment. Not all of those completed applications were triple-qualified in those categories mentioned above, however. They never publish data on how many were triple-qualified, but let's be generous and say it was 50%. That's 8,000 applications for 1,373 offers, or 17%.
Those 17% scored between 1240 and 1520 on the SAT and 27-32 on the ACT. To be in that 17%, one could surmise that you would need to score in the upper half of those numbers, including having an above-average GPA and class standing, a passing CFA, and a successful medical exam with a nomination.

Again, if you don't receive a nomination, you're out.
Last year, did you apply to all nomination sources available to you? Did you apply for the Vice-Presidential nomination?
You say that your District Representative's seat is in play in this election, but most MOCs have a system in place to still take applications for SA nominations, even though they may be on the way out after the election. Have you thoroughly checked into the matter? Have you completely covered all nomination sources (https://www.usna.edu/Admissions/Apply/Nomination-Sources.php) available to you?

Since you asked for the sub-par stuff, this response probably sounds like a real downer, but data shows that re-applicants typically have a higher chance of getting in on the 2nd or 3rd attempt, as long as they have shown significant improvement since their unsuccessful attempt(s). My DS has a guy in his Company who got in on his third try.
It CAN be done.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the response! And yes i have really improved since lat year. Im taking plebe year courses (calculus, literature, history, and chemistry with lab) and currently have taken my misterms and still have straight A’s. And yes i applied to every nomination source. I guess I guess I was trying to see where I went wrong last year. I think it was my cfa, 1130 sat, and dodmerb dq.
My CFA is as follows this year:
78ft bball throw
18 pullups
8.9 shuttle (could use work i know)
82 crunches (again continuing to improve)
70 push ups
And 6:18 mile
I have a 24 on the ACT currently and still my 1130 SAT stands but im retaking the SATs next month. Ive been doing everything that a college reapplicant is supposed to do, I guess it was my curiosity that made me ask this question. But again, thank you!
 
usna1985 said:
Wow . . . there's a lot in the above post. Let me start here . . .

We won't be able to do a congressional nomination this year due to the new elections or will have to wait until the newly elected congressman is in office.
Click to expand...

That is flat out wrong. You have 3 current MOCs. You need to apply to them. If they are voted out or are retiring, they should submit their slates before they leave office. It is EXTRAORDINARILY rare for a new MOC to either: (1) pull the slate of the outgoing MOC and/or (2) select his/her own slate having been in office for about a week when slates are due.

As for what is a sub-par package . . . you are coming at it the wrong way. You need to have an outstanding package. Reading the posts and stickies on this forum will give you a good idea of what is needed. If you have a DODMERB DQ from last year, something must have changed or you will still be DQ'ed.
Click to expand...
My congressman Frank Lobiondo told us that last year we were his last nominations and his website even says he is done so yes I only have the senators and the VP nomination applied to right now until the new elect is in office. And the reason im asking about a subpar package is to mainly see where I went wrong. I currently am acing plebe year courses and am following the thread made for college reapplicants to the tee. Im doing everything I can right now to stand out. But my DoDMerb is a worrying part.

Here is the link for Lobiondo service academy nomination applications:
https://lobiondo.house.gov/serving-you/service-academy-nominations
 
Last edited:
Old Navy BGO said:
Agree with the comment that you are looking at it from the wrong direction. A "subpar" package is anything, in any category, that is lower than your competition. You don't know what is in your competition's application, and certainly can't control that. All you can do is to present the best application and be as competitive as you can.
Click to expand...
I think it was my SAT, CFA, and DoDMerb factors. Im working very had this year to be as competitive as possible.
 
TomB said:
usna1985 said:
Wow . . . there's a lot in the above post. Let me start here . . .

We won't be able to do a congressional nomination this year due to the new elections or will have to wait until the newly elected congressman is in office.
Click to expand...

That is flat out wrong. You have 3 current MOCs. You need to apply to them. If they are voted out or are retiring, they should submit their slates before they leave office. It is EXTRAORDINARILY rare for a new MOC to either: (1) pull the slate of the outgoing MOC and/or (2) select his/her own slate having been in office for about a week when slates are due.

As for what is a sub-par package . . . you are coming at it the wrong way. You need to have an outstanding package. Reading the posts and stickies on this forum will give you a good idea of what is needed. If you have a DODMERB DQ from last year, something must have changed or you will still be DQ'ed.
Click to expand...
My congressman Frank Lobiondo told us that last year we were his last nominations and his website even says he is done so yes I only have the senators and the VP nomination applied to right now until the new elect is in office. And the reason im asking about a subpar package is to mainly see where I went wrong. I currently am acing plebe year courses and am following the thread made for college reapplicants to the tee. Im doing everything I can right now to stand out. But my DoDMerb is a worrying part.

Here is the link for Lobiondo service academy nomination applications:
https://lobiondo.house.gov/serving-you/service-academy-nominations
Click to expand...

That's kind of crazy. But I would definitely follow his advice and contact whoever wins immediately.
 
I think you know the answer. Standardized test scores have the biggest single impact on your application and yours are a good bit lower than the average and you didn't list the individual scores. Math and English are most important. Having a 4.0 in your first semester of college will increase your WCS, but it may not be enough to offset the test scores. You need to put all your effort into raising them. There is not much else you can do to significantly improve the other areas in a short period of time.
 
USMA 1994 said:
I think you know the answer. Standardized test scores have the biggest single impact on your application and yours are a good bit lower than the average and you didn't list the individual scores. Math and English are most important. Having a 4.0 in your first semester of college will increase your WCS, but it may not be enough to offset the test scores. You need to put all your effort into raising them. There is not much else you can do to significantly improve the other areas in a short period of time.
Click to expand...
Understood. I'm doing my best to try to increase my test scores. Thank you.
 
Agree that SAT/ACT scores might have been a factor. If you've not already done so, suggest you contact your RD and ask whether it makes sense for you to retake them. If you do so, you should either take a course or do dedicated practice on your own in advance. Simply retaking is not going to lead to significantly better scores.
 
usna1985 said:
Agree that SAT/ACT scores might have been a factor. If you've not already done so, suggest you contact your RD and ask whether it makes sense for you to retake them. If you do so, you should either take a course or do dedicated practice on your own in advance. Simply retaking is not going to lead to significantly better scores.
Click to expand...
I did already ask and they said that if I could I should try to boost them up. They put more emphasis on me doing well in plebe year courses and proving I can handle the workload (which I am doing currently and am excelling in all of them). I am practicing for the retest and following the thread that you made for college reapplicants to the tee. I appreciate the input and help, hopefully I'll be able to add my name to the 2023 thread.
 
I followed the link to your MOC. It sounds as if he is letting the new MOC, when they take office in Nov, to provide the slate. I would ensure you contact them based on that date on the website.
 
NavyHoops said:
I followed the link to your MOC. It sounds as if he is letting the new MOC, when they take office in Nov, to provide the slate. I would ensure you contact them based on that date on the website.
Click to expand...
Noted. I will be doing so.
 
It's really too bad that your outgoing MOC is not willing to go through the nomination process this year. Congress will reconvene in January, and that's when the new MOC are sworn in. Our MOC is also retiring and is still doing the nominations with the plan to submit them before the new member is sworn in. With all the new responsibilities on a new MOC's plate, service academy nominations might fall between the cracks.

Hope it works out for you, @TomB. Let us know what happens.
 
TomB said:
Hello all,

I'm a reapplicant for USNA after being turned in my last attempt. I have a question for anyone who is willing to answer and it is an entirely opinionated question. I know that this question may vary from year to year with the different scores and everything being sent in but in your opinion, what would you consider a subpar package? I'm talking in terms of SATs/ACTs, grades, leadership, community service, and so on. This question may seem really dumb to some of you, but I'm curious about what other members who have been around for a while would consider a not so competitive package to a service academy or what some of the mistakes are that candidates have made in the past.

The reason I ask is that I personally in high school had leadership, community service, and academics but my test scores were below average, I was not in a varsity sport since I am a boxer who has been boxing for almost six years and still going, and I will admit my CFA could have used work at the time. I am confident in my package this year but my DoDMerb DQ is discouraging and I feel that my test scores, and yes I am retaking them, are going to be a notable disadvantage for me when I go for my nomination interviews. I received no nomination for my senators last year but I did receive a nomination from my congressman for USMMA and USAFA even though I put USNA as my #1 choice. We won't be able to do a congressional nomination this year due to the new elections or will have to wait until the newly elected congressman is in office. Any opinions/advice would help.

Thank you.

Very Respectfully,
TomB
Click to expand...


Without going into detail, have you been cleared by DODMERB this year? If you can’t get a waiver for the DQ, you will not be considered admissible.
 
shock-n-awe said:
TomB said:
Hello all,

I'm a reapplicant for USNA after being turned in my last attempt. I have a question for anyone who is willing to answer and it is an entirely opinionated question. I know that this question may vary from year to year with the different scores and everything being sent in but in your opinion, what would you consider a subpar package? I'm talking in terms of SATs/ACTs, grades, leadership, community service, and so on. This question may seem really dumb to some of you, but I'm curious about what other members who have been around for a while would consider a not so competitive package to a service academy or what some of the mistakes are that candidates have made in the past.

The reason I ask is that I personally in high school had leadership, community service, and academics but my test scores were below average, I was not in a varsity sport since I am a boxer who has been boxing for almost six years and still going, and I will admit my CFA could have used work at the time. I am confident in my package this year but my DoDMerb DQ is discouraging and I feel that my test scores, and yes I am retaking them, are going to be a notable disadvantage for me when I go for my nomination interviews. I received no nomination for my senators last year but I did receive a nomination from my congressman for USMMA and USAFA even though I put USNA as my #1 choice. We won't be able to do a congressional nomination this year due to the new elections or will have to wait until the newly elected congressman is in office. Any opinions/advice would help.

Thank you.

Very Respectfully,
TomB
Click to expand...


Without going into detail, have you been cleared by DODMERB this year? If you can’t get a waiver for the DQ, you will not be considered admissible.
Click to expand...
DoDMERB disqualified me and I do need a waiver. I am sending other paperwork that MAY change my situation but I do not believe so. So, I will have to wait and see what happens.
 
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