Opinions please on service academy college admissions coaches

[MN-Dad-2016]

According to CollegeData, Harvard Freshman Admissions Requirements

Let's go to the source.
See https://college.harvard.edu/admissions/admissions-statistics
Applicants 39,506
Admitted 2,038 or 5%.

And http://admission.stanford.edu/basics/selection/profile.html
Applicants 43,997
Admitted 2114 or 4.8%
78% of the applicants are in the top 10%. For those who are admitted to Stanford, 95% were in the top 10% of their class. Other sites will show the percentiles. Both Stanford and Harvard have much higher stats than USAFA.

About 50% of USAFA applicants that finish (and medically qualify) are offered a slot. That's the reality. As I said earlier, we are comparing apples to guavas (different skill sets). See https://www.thoughtco.com/harvard-gpa-sat-and-act-data-786496 which shows a scatter plot of acceptance and rejections. Statistically, a whole lot of extremely smart students apply to Stanford and Harvard and the competition is brutal.

I'm not taking anything away from USAFA. In fact, our son believes he got a world class education; arguably (and he would) it was a much better education than any other college he would have attended. He loved the place and his experience. But I am not going to deny the obvious. On average, a USAFA student versus an average Stanford student have a different bag of tricks. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Christcorp]

I did use the source. Other than the first paragraph in the last post, all of the data came from the school's website.

 

[MN-Dad-2016]

I will restate what I wrote previously:
"But generally speaking, if you are of the caliber to receive an appointment to a military academy, you're also of the caliber that you should be applying to other schools that you WANT. Not limiting yourself because you think you're not good enough."

Meaning, not relegating yourself just to community colleges or your local state college because you don't think you're good enough.

But I can be a little more realistic if you prefer. Most people have a "Favorable Opinion" when they hear of "Purdue University". The class profile for them is:
Purdue University:
Georgetown University

Your original post (plus many other threads) often compare the Ivy's, MIT or Stanford to USAFA. I'm saying those specific categories of schools (on average) are looking for different student. Then you went a step further and said it is harder to get into USAFA (because of the physical and sports element). I was simply pointing out the obvious; it depends how the students skill sets match up! Therefore, I was suggesting that your general statement a few posts earlier (especially about it "harder" to attend USAFA), pushed it.

I would have not posted in the thread if your point was "not relegating yourself just to community colleges or your local state college because you don't think you're good enough." because we agree. I would also agree that Georgetown and Purdue are great schools. But they are not anywhere near as difficult to attend as the Ivy's, Stanford or MIT and I bet a major portion of USAFA students could attend GT and Purdue. That doesn't mean that a Purdue student could not get into MIT. There will be overlap. But MIT is statistically tougher to attend because they can be more selective. While I'm clarifying, I am not assuming Harvard or Stanford has a better education just because it is ranked harder to get into. I don't know. But as for difficulty of getting in, that's discussed on many sites See http://www.businessinsider.com/the-...0/#2-yale-university-new-haven-connecticut-19 or https://www.niche.com/colleges/search/hardest-to-get-in/

 

[In-the-Know]

I will restate what I wrote previously:
"But generally speaking, if you are of the caliber to receive an appointment to a military academy, you're also of the caliber that you should be applying to other schools that you WANT. Not limiting yourself because you think you're not good enough."

Meaning, not relegating yourself just to community colleges or your local state college because you don't think you're good enough.

But I can be a little more realistic if you prefer. Most people have a "Favorable Opinion" when they hear of "Purdue University". The class profile for them is:
Purdue University:
Georgetown University

Your original post (plus many other threads) often compare the Ivy's, MIT or Stanford to USAFA. I'm saying those specific categories of schools (on average) are looking for different student. Then you went a step further and said it is harder to get into USAFA (because of the physical and sports element). I was simply pointing out the obvious; it depends how the students skill sets match up! Therefore, I was suggesting that your general statement a few posts earlier (especially about it "harder" to attend USAFA), pushed it.

I would have not posted in the thread if your point was "not relegating yourself just to community colleges or your local state college because you don't think you're good enough." because we agree. I would also agree that Georgetown and Purdue are great schools. But they are not anywhere near as difficult to attend as the Ivy's, Stanford or MIT and I bet a major portion of USAFA students could attend GT and Purdue. That doesn't mean that a Purdue student could not get into MIT. There will be overlap. But MIT is statistically tougher to attend because they can be more selective. While I'm clarifying, I am not assuming Harvard or Stanford has a better education just because it is ranked harder to get into. I don't know. But as for difficulty of getting in, that's discussed on many sites See http://www.businessinsider.com/the-...0/#2-yale-university-new-haven-connecticut-19 or https://www.niche.com/colleges/search/hardest-to-get-in/

 

[In-the-Know]

OK. So Christcorp and MN-Dad-2016 are both right. Don't shoot for the below average state college if you are competitive for a service academy. You can probably get into a solid engineering school (or liberal arts school if that's your druther) if you are competitive for a service academy. However, don't believe that you can get into Harvard or Yale just because you can get into a service academy. MN-Dad-2016's answer hits it on the head. There is overlap, but I'd say only the top 10% of USAFA applicants can actually get into Harvard, Yale, Standford, etc.

The Academy's are looking for something different than a top notch engineering or liberal arts are looking for. Yes there is overlap, but it is not just about academics. USAFA will take a brainiac that competes in triathlons and a jock who earned A's in calc 1. Academics play a big role, but not the entire role. Leadership, athletics, and a desire to serve in the military are what differentiates SA students from others. Academy types thrive on adventure and adrenaline. They are outgoing and like to work in teams--even if they have straight As. They are goal oriented, persistent, and believe in serving their country. The ivys won't take most of our students, but many of the ivy's students won't win America's wars.

 

[MN-Dad-2016]

There is overlap, but I'd say only the top 10% of USAFA applicants can actually get into Harvard, Yale, Standford, etc.

The Academy's are looking for something different than a top notch engineering or liberal arts are looking for. Yes there is overlap, but it is not just about academics. USAFA will take a brainiac that competes in triathlons and a jock who earned A's in calc 1. Academics play a big role, but not the entire role. Leadership, athletics, and a desire to serve in the military are what differentiates SA students from others. Academy types thrive on adventure and adrenaline. They are outgoing and like to work in teams--even if they have straight As. They are goal oriented, persistent, and believe in serving their country. The ivys won't take most of our students, but many of the ivy's students won't win America's wars.

Now I know why your handle is "In-the Know". You suspect your 10% overlap estimate is spot in. We are on vacation with our son. His 1st prediction was 5% and then he quickly changed it to 10%. That's because most of the Scholars program participants (5%) would make it in plus others that are equally as impressive. Then add in some D1 target students that the Ivy's would LOVE to recruit. He suspects 10% is a very good estimate.

 

[Christcorp]

If you want me to qualify, that's fine. I used the Ivy's as an example. My point, was, is, and always will be........ if you are of the caliber and quality to receive an appointment from one of the academies, then you also possess the qualities and caliber to apply to just about "ANY" university in the country.

Most individuals who apply to the academy have as a backup, their state university or a community college. Some because they don't think they can afford anything else. This is a myth. Even at Harvard, the average contribution from a family, is only $12,000 per year. It's even much less at most other schools. The other reason many don't apply to other than their state university or community college, is because they don't think they are good enough to get accepted. And that's where my point is. If you don't think you're good enough to get into most of the universities in the country, then maybe you're not good enough to get into the academies. Whether it's an Ivy League school or Purdue, Georgetown, Loyola Marymount, brown, Tulane, or even other out of state schools like Michigan state, Alabama, USC, etc.

If you truly think you qualify for an academy, then you qualify for most any school. If you doubt that, then you should doubt qualifying at an academy. And cost to most schools can easily be done ; with a little homework. There is a lot of money out there for education.

 

[MN-Dad-2016]

Most individuals who apply to the academy have as a backup, their state university or a community college. Some because they don't think they can afford anything else. This is a myth.

As far as cost. That depends.. Some of the Ivy's as well as Stanford have MASSIVE endowments. Other selective colleges like Purdue, Wash U, don't have nearly as deep pockets. Hence, many non-Ivy bound students pick their flagship state universities because their parents make too much. So you are right, the price of admission to Harvard as an example could be extremely reasonable. But students who's parents make >$180K (I am too lazy to look up what the exact amount is in 2018) won't get a nickel out of Harvard, Stanford, etc. But the cost of admission is much more economical than FAFSA would lead you to believe. In fact, if you make around $65K family income, FAFSA will contribute close to $0.00 at Harvard (as an example and going from memory) yet Harvard will pay the overwhelming majority. That said, someone could be the worlds smartest student or the best athlete in the world and they will receive $0.00 of "scholarships" because there is no "merit based" awards.

So for a lot of Academy students, the reason why they don't apply to Harvard or Wash U is because their parents make to much and the will be straddled with >>$200K of debt. Income over $180K (not that much in 2017) and they will give you ZERO. So for those students, it's not a "myth" as the average cost to attend Harvard is retail. Yet others don't apply because they assume they won't get funds because of their FAFSA score won't help with $$'s. So it is wise to point out that of the most Ivy's are needs-blind and several are extremely generous. But that doesn't mean they are going to get into the most competitive universities in the world because they can get into a SA. To illustrate the point further, there is literally a formula for some of the internal programs based off of income. For instance for Harvard Medical School (in order to get a diverse income grouping) specifically selects 25% are specifically chosen in each quadrant and qualified based off of parents income.

But for non-Ivy exceptional schools (WITHOUT massive endowments) and with income of >$70K income aid won't be nearly as much $$'s. Hence, debt dodging students won't apply.