Opportunity at Naval Academy

[CARLJUNCTION]

My daughter - was exposed to West Point and is 3/4 of the way through the application process. Today she was contacted about the Naval Academy. Can you share with me some of your thoughts on the following.

While there is an obvious rivalry - what are some of the differences between Army & Navy?

Is it common to apply for the both?

Thank you in advance.

 

[Capt MJ]

Some apply for all five of the federal academies or just 1 or anything in between. Some applicants know exactly what they want. Some want to keep options open, explore all paths, develop knowledge, visit schools, allow for perspective shifts and make a decision in the spring if they have offers of appointment in hand. There are those who apply to 5 academies, 3 ROTC programs, and multiple colleges, strategically building tiers of alternate plans if they are focused on service as a commissioned officer. A notable percentage of each incoming SA class is re-applicants from college, who did not receive an offer of appointment the first time they applied. If they go right into an ROTC program, they continue moving toward their goal of a commission while preparing to apply for the next SA cycle.

USMA provides a college education and professional training to commission and serve as an Army officer.

USNA provides a college education and professional training to commission and serve as a Navy or Marine Corps officer.

Both are Division I schools, cadets and midshipman are active duty, and are similar in many ways - mission, career paths and culture are what differ.

Your daughter, if she hasn’t already, should read every page, link, menu item at USMA.edu. Ditto USNA.edu. The service academies are a way station to a minimum of 5 years of active duty service, not the end goal. She should reverse engineer her research. Determine what officer career paths appeal to her, figure out where they are offered, determine the commissioning path that suits her best, service academy or ROTC.

The Navy does much of its work on the water, above the water, below the water, often far from the sight of land, in the far corners of the world. It’s not everyone’s cup of tea. (It was mine, the sea is in my blood, 26 years in the Navy, not for me based out of sight of large bodies of water.). The Army also operates around the world, as a land-based service.

Both offer extraordinary opportunities, educations, leadership training. It’s a matter of what service is her people and her path? The more she can learn by any in-person interactions at the SAs, the better.

Here’s a sample page from USNA.edu. Your daughter should plow through the links and always check the hamburger menu in the upper left corner.

Career Opportunities After Graduation

Career Opportunities page for The Blue and Gold Book at USNA.edu. Updated Wed May 17 16:38:22 EDT 2023.

www.usna.edu

 

[MidCakePa]

Building on @Capt MJ great response: If your daughter is committed to serving as a commissioned officer, she should absolutely consider expanding her options to increase her chances.

My own DD was all-in on USNA since middle school. But she also applied to USMA. She receive offers of appointment to both, but it was a timely invitation to the local alumni chapter’s West Point Founders Day dinner that had her rethinking her priorities. The WP alum lobbied her hard at the event, and for a couple weeks I thought she’d flip her choice. In the end, she went with USNA, but I know she would’ve been happy and successful at USMA as well.

Point is, be open-minded and maximize your options. You never know how things might turn out.

 

[JudgeGuy]

My daughter - was exposed to West Point and is 3/4 of the way through the application process. Today she was contacted about the Naval Academy. Can you share with me some of your thoughts on the following.

While there is an obvious rivalry - what are some of the differences between Army & Navy?

Is it common to apply for the both?

Thank you in advance.

Very common to apply to both.

My DS had visited both as a Boy Scout and both visits peaked his interest in serving. DS also applied to USCGA, and USAFA. All applications were similar, but different as well if that makes sense. Biggest differences are the service your DD would be interested in after school. There is great info on both web sites as well as YouTube videos that offer explanations on the type of jobs/career that are available in their respective communities. Both are 5 yr commitments after graduation. Even after apps are complete, both require Nominations from VP, congress, senator, or rotc or other source. With DS in our State, one Senator allowed just 1 choice of service academy on the App while other senator and our congresswoman allowed multiple SA choices ranked in preference order. DS did tons of research and spoke to several active service members. In the end DS was beyond humbled to receive Nominations and appointments to USNA & USMA in Dec. He waited a couple days and realized Navy was what he dreamed of and where he wanted to serve and accepted his appointment. In Feb USAFA sent an appointment, but he had no regrets about not waiting. DS is finishing up Plebe Summer at USNA and when we spoke last he could not be happier.

It is a grueling and long process, so she should get on it early if applying to both. I'm impressed with any kid that goes through the process. It is a lot of work that I would not have been able to do as a 17 yrld.
Good luck to her! Either is a fantastic opportunity.

 

[brewmeist]

Is it common to apply for the both?

Not only is it common, it is expected.

As @Capt MJ mentioned, applicants want to keep their options open. My own son had an initial interest in USMA, USNA, and USAFA. He did the summer seminar at USAFA, and something just didn't click. So he scratched that off his list. USNA showed an immediate interest in him, which may have swayed his final decision, but USNA also had the careers he was most interested in. He would have gladly attended USMA, which also showed an interest in him, but by that point, USNA had the culture and jobs he was looking for.

Your daughter needs to really think about what she wants to do in a military career, and then research which branch satisfies that the most. All the SAs repect each other, and will not hold it against her to 'kick the tires.'

 

[AggieTexan]

My nephew applied to USNA and USAFA and received appointments to both. He chose USNA which had been his primary focus for quite a long time. Visiting multiple times and really exploring the options on academic opportunities as well as how he wanted to live and serve were key. My nephew also spent the fall semester of his 2nd Class year as an exchange student at USMA. it was a fantastic experience which he found to be the same in some ways yet different in others.

 

[justdoit19]

Ditto what’s already been stated. Really emphasizing ‘what does she want to do after’ her 4 yrs at school. Because those years fly by. It’s the service afterwards that should be her focus.

Look at all the different jobs she could do. And even beyond that, figure out if she would be happy doing a different one. Because there are no guarantees she will get the one she wants.

Ask questions. Visit with people (ROTC units, if she is considering that route, are a fantastic opportunity to explore during an admissions visit to xx school).

It’s not uncommon to not know for sure at this point. She should apply to any/all she is considering. Then make the decision from her options. Don’t close any doors at this point! Yea it’s a lot of work, but many pieces of the application can be ‘shared’ (ie: resume) with each SA, ROTC, and nominating source. So it’s not as daunting as it may seem at the outset.

I’ve got two that went this route, both very different people, and both having a fantastic experience. But it’s not for everyone. First and foremost, does she want to serve as an officer in the greatest military?? That piece is key.

Good luck!!

 

[USNA_STEM_Prof]

While there is an obvious rivalry - what are some of the differences between Army & Navy?

I'm stepping back from the schools themselves and addressing this as I frequently did when working as an Officer recruiter many years ago.

Broadly speaking, the difference is cultural. There's no definitive right or wrong with the cultural differences, but they are there. The Navy is fundamentally structured around ships at sea waging over the horizon warfare with missiles and aircraft. The Army is structured around ground based combat and up-close engagement. Extrapolating those ideas out, the nature of the branches and the various communities within them make sense.

Moving on, I would also ask "what does she want to do?" It was astonishing how many times I had an applicant in my office that was interested in combat, i.e., infantry, tanks, or artillery. I was a very candid recruiter (something I attribute to my success) and would genuinely ask why they were even talking to me.

Being smaller and in many ways safer, the Navy has traditionally been a bit more selective as to who enlists. Conversely, the Army hasn't had that luxury. Being clear, I'm not disparaging anyone who serves, particularly those that do so because they're disadvantaged and don't know what else to do, but the Army enlists a lot of people in those scenarios. I bring this up because it creates more unique leadership challenges within the Army, per capita. This point may be less pertinent at present because all the branches are hurting for applicants.

Both branches are a huge machine but the Army is significantly larger than the Navy, even more so if you consider the interplay of the NG and Reserves. This can mitigated by joining a small and more specialized community but generally speaking, those will be larger in the Army. For example, as a surface nuke I was one of about 900. Later on in my analyst community I was one of ~180 and now as a USNA prof I'm one of 52. I suspect comparable roles in the Army are larger. I like the tight-nit feeling of a ship's crew or a small community, and while a platoon is certainly a small family, I hope you get the idea.

Alright, enough philosophical rambling. There's no wrong answer here but she must look beyond the academies, talk to folk, and of course hope for the best. Good luck!

 

[Old Navy BGO]

Not only is it common, it is expected.

Not necessarily.. no where on the USNA application does it ask whether you are applying to USMA ...or any other Service Academy. A person may apply to just one Service Academy for any number of reasons, including choice of Service Selections, available majors, location, etc. Applying to multiple Service Academies does not necessarily equate to "commitment to Service,"

The opening question for DD (and anyone thinking about applying to a Service Academy, or Service Academies) is what are you looking for and why are you interested in attending a Service Academy. If there is a general desire to service as an Officer, but no specific service selection in mind (keep in mind, you don't always get what you want, so I encourage people to consider Plans B, C, and D as well), then applying to multiple service academies may be for you. If you are completely adverse to the idea of sleeping outstide, living in the mud and prefer the comfort of a fresh rack every night , then maybe Navy is preferred (and of course, USMC is available if you change your mind). If you don't like living out in the middle of nowhere (ie, Minot ND) and are drawn to the sea, then maybe Navy is preferred (and then you get stationed at NAS Fallon).

Seriously, if someone is drawn to the rigors of a Service Academy, and wants to serve as an Officer, and is open minded about what they want to do - then by all means, investigate all your options. If nothing more, it increases the odds of acceptance. As others have posted, there are definitely cultural differences between the different services -- visit the Academies, talk with Officers (both young and old), and find out what is the best fit.

Finally, the best advice I have ever received (from my BGO 40+ years ago), when I was heart set on being a pilot and thought that USAFA was the best way to get there -- think about what happens if you can't be a pilot (back then eyes was the biggest disqualifier); Navy provides a very broad opportunity of service assignments , everything that the Army and Air Force have (ie. Marines and Naval Aviation), but also have ships and submarines. If you don't get your first choice..there are great opportunities at Navy.

 

[brewmeist]

Not necessarily.. no where on the USNA application does it ask whether you are applying to USMA ...or any other Service Academy.

I probably shouldn't have used 'expect,' as it does have a dual meaning. I did not mean at all that SAs think that candidates are obligated to apply to all SAs. But SAs certainly find it probable that this will happen.

 

[ders_dad]

Finally, the best advice I have ever received (from my BGO 40+ years ago), when I was heart set on being a pilot and thought that USAFA was the best way to get there -- think about what happens if you can't be a pilot (back then eyes was the biggest disqualifier); Navy provides a very broad opportunity of service assignments , everything that the Army and Air Force have (ie. Marines and Naval Aviation), but also have ships and submarines. If you don't get your first choice..there are great opportunities at Navy.

This is about the same reason why my DS decided to only apply to USNA, although he did start his USAFA application (but didn't complete it). I have no military background but my cousin's husband is a third-generation West Point grad (and his father was a Supe at USAFA). My DS had several talks with him and my cousin's husband noted that "you really don't yet know how and where you want to serve as an officer. You might find out you don't like to fly, you hate (or like) rucking, etc. If I were you, I would focus on 'Canoe U'.'" He also made a compelling argument for going the NROTC route. My son appreciated the candor. Despite COVID, my DS has gotten a decent understanding and appreciation of the different warfare communities in the Navy while at USNA.

He was asked during a nomination interview why he did not apply to either USMA or USAFA and the above rationale was readily accepted (he already had an NROTC scholarship in hand at the time so there wasn't a question about his willingness to serve).

 

[Banshee Mom]

Keep options open . We live in NY and have family and friends who live near USMA. DD had more exposure to USMA . She applied to both USMA and USNA. She was vehement she was primarily interested in USMA when she started the application process. After researching both branches , speaking to her FFR, Blue and Gold officer and becoming friendly with a USNA plebe last year who she corresponded with via email and phone calls plus a teacher who was Navy reserve , her focus shifted to USNA . She would have been absolutely thrilled to attend either academy , but she received Naval Foundation and will (hopefully ) be appointed to the class of 2027.

 

[BBQ-Devil]

I will echo Capt MJ - Have your DD read every page at both the USMA and USNA websites and think about what she wants to do after the 4 years at the academy are done. While she is at it, do the same at academyadmissions.com and look over what USAFA has to offer.

My son was dead set on USNA when he started the process back in 2018. After evaluating his options and learning more about the branches of service, he ended up at USAFA. My point is that 17-year-olds can change their minds and my advice is for your DD to explore all her options. She can't go wrong with any of these institutions.

 

[usna1985]

Each SA is great. However, not every SA is great for every person. I wanted to do something on the water. Hence, I applied to USNA and USCGA. I didn't apply to USMMA only b/c I didn't know about it (keep in mind, this was more than 40 years ago. I personally had zero interest in living in tents, eating MREs, carrying big packs on my back while marching through the woods . . . so USMA / the Army wasn't for me.

There is no requirement or expectation to apply to multiple SAs. Apply to those that interest you b/c it's not helpful to get into a SA that you don't really want to attend. Just be prepared to explain (to the BGO to the MOC committees) why you have selected the SA(s) to which you've applied.