Plan B Question

vadad23

Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2016
Messages
63
I know there have been several threads over the years here on Plan B but was wondering what others thought of the following.

DD recently cleared last hurdle(medical waiver) for getting appointment at USNA, one of her top choices. Problem(good problem to have) is that she also has offer from Notre Dame Mendoza school which is also one of her top choices. Doing a lot of soul searching now for what exactly she wants to get out of college experience and time afterwards but am wondering what others are think about having a plan B.

DD has been corresponding with a current plebe who said they lost about 20 from their class this year from PS. I know in some years they have lost more. Would be a shame to go through PS, realize that military or navy was not what they expected and lose opportunity to attend ND in fall as backup. Don't know what the kids that decide it is not for them do for a year.

Is it worthwhile putting a deposit down on the plan B school just in case things don't work out with PS? Would it be best to fully disclose to Plan B school in this situation or maybe even ask for deferring for a year? There's a lot to be said for fully commuting to decision and decline plan B if she decides on USNA route so to open spot for someone on waitlist. Also, lot to be said for not providing an easy out to bail when it will inevitably get hard during plebe year. I'm sure almost every plebe at some point has to dig deep to keep their determination when the going gets tough!
 

Jcc123

5-Year Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2010
Messages
1,024
It's not uncommon to keep an "ace in the hole" at least until the end of plebe summer. However, you know your daughter better than anyone - how will the presence of an "escape hatch" affect her mentally when things get hard this summer? Every one of them will want to quit at some point - it's temporary insanity for most, they stay and everything turns out fine. Just a consideration.
 

vadad23

Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2016
Messages
63
It's not uncommon to keep an "ace in the hole" at least until the end of plebe summer. However, you know your daughter better than anyone - how will the presence of an "escape hatch" affect her mentally when things get hard this summer? Every one of them will want to quit at some point - it's temporary insanity for most, they stay and everything turns out fine. Just a consideration.

Thanks! Knowing DD, "burning the ships" might focus determination but hate thought of not having a backup in any situation....

Also, wonder if the Plan B school would be cool with them being the backup plan. I know ND and USNA have a long history and maybe of all schools they might be accommodating but just don't know.
 

RedDragon

5-Year Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2013
Messages
245
Some schools will be kind.. We put down deposits at two excellent schools for both boys and when they reported for I day and Rday we(my wife who can be more persuasive) spoke to admissions. Both schools refunded deposits and only because both boys were at academies... Perhaps not the norm but it's worth the try.
 

EOD/SEALmom

Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2015
Messages
683
Thanks! Knowing DD, "burning the ships" might focus determination but hate thought of not having a backup in any situation.....

Perhaps consider paying the deposit very quietly, and let your DD think the ships have been burned? That would appease your nerves and also focus her determination. In the event that she does end up leaving during Plebe summer, she would most likely be grateful of your tactics at that point [emoji12]
 

ktnatalk

Sailor. Shipmate. Parent.
Joined
Feb 20, 2016
Messages
1,299
Thanks! Knowing DD, "burning the ships" might focus determination but hate thought of not having a backup in any situation....

Also, wonder if the Plan B school would be cool with them being the backup plan. I know ND and USNA have a long history and maybe of all schools they might be accommodating but just don't know.
I am curious about the seemingly much higher number of Plebes who quit this past summer at USNA (compared to single digit for class of '18 and similar small number for class of '19) is due to our successfully advocacy on keeping plan b till Plebe Summer is over - did it inadvertently turn into the "escape hatch" Jcc123 refers to?
Also, could you appear to burn the ship while in reality you didn't?

Edit: cross posted with EOD Mom!
 

vadad23

Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2016
Messages
63
This past summer was unseasonably hot/humid with lots of "black " days. Made PT during the PS pretty miserable from what I understand.
 

ktnatalk

Sailor. Shipmate. Parent.
Joined
Feb 20, 2016
Messages
1,299

jl123

Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2016
Messages
1,347
I know there have been several threads over the years here on Plan B but was wondering what others thought of the following.

DD recently cleared last hurdle(medical waiver) for getting appointment at USNA, one of her top choices. Problem(good problem to have) is that she also has offer from Notre Dame Mendoza school which is also one of her top choices. Doing a lot of soul searching now for what exactly she wants to get out of college experience and time afterwards but am wondering what others are think about having a plan B.

DD has been corresponding with a current plebe who said they lost about 20 from their class this year from PS. I know in some years they have lost more. Would be a shame to go through PS, realize that military or navy was not what they expected and lose opportunity to attend ND in fall as backup. Don't know what the kids that decide it is not for them do for a year.

Is it worthwhile putting a deposit down on the plan B school just in case things don't work out with PS? Would it be best to fully disclose to Plan B school in this situation or maybe even ask for deferring for a year? There's a lot to be said for fully commuting to decision and decline plan B if she decides on USNA route so to open spot for someone on waitlist. Also, lot to be said for not providing an easy out to bail when it will inevitably get hard during plebe year. I'm sure almost every plebe at some point has to dig deep to keep their determination when the going gets tough!
The smartest move is to contact ND admissions and coordinate with them on Plan B backup and be sure to include high school college counselor in the discussion. Here are some considerations:
  1. The biggest concern is getting hurt before or during the summer. Quitting before the end of first year or, at least first semester, should not be an option. That is the minimum amount of time necessary to make a mature decision after investing so much to get into an SA.
  2. Can you do it without DD knowing? That removes the easy out option. Plebe summer is tough. Many think they want to quit and are not able to think rationally under the stress.
  3. Some suggest putting down a deposit without coordinating with Plan B school. The ethics of this have been argued endlessly on this forum with no resolution. Beyond ethics is the risk of getting caught. The most likely way of getting caught is if your high school college counselor informs Plan B and all other schools to which she was accepted that she "double deposited". Some colleges send a list to high schools with the names of all students from that high school that have accepted offers. Most college counselors belong to an organization that requires them to report this offense. Many do not follow through, but some do.
 

vadad23

Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2016
Messages
63
Based in no small part to this forum, agree the best approach is to be as upfront as possible with Plan B schools. Can't predict injuries or changing goals but like suggestion that any decision will be a one year minimum decision.

Been trying to be as hands off decision making process as to allow DD to make decision based on her own soul searching but want to offer best advice for her to consider when weighing decision. In our situation, might be difficult to not have her know of a plan B...
 

USNAredrock

Class of 2021
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
49
As someone who is attending the academy this fall, I don't think I would approve of my parents depositing a plan B just in case and not telling me. I feel like the decision is up to the appointee of whether or not they want to hold onto an "escape route". If they don't have a solid plan b and then drop out, it is up to them to decide what to do after that. I know parents are concerned about this transition, mine especially, but part of the success comes from letting your child be the adult they will have to be when they get there and figuring out their own lives.
 

ktnatalk

Sailor. Shipmate. Parent.
Joined
Feb 20, 2016
Messages
1,299
Redrock, I totally agree with you IF the candidate has considered all options AND know the risk and the outcome of the choice(s) he or she makes. In real life though, we do buy car insurance for a reason: to protect us if the unexpected happens.
 

USNAredrock

Class of 2021
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
49
I totally agree ktnatalk! But you make the decision to buy the insurance. I totally agree to have a plan b and over prepare (my mom had taught me that ;) but it should come from your DD/DS. I definitely feel that you should be open with them and let them know your concerns, but ultimately let them take the lead and trust them!
 

AF6872

10-Year Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2007
Messages
3,864
I don't think double or even triple deposit is an "offense". What can they do to your student, keep the deposit? Many will return it if you explain the SA acceptance others may not. Many also require a deposit before SA admission decision and Plebe Summer. There is nothing unethical about guaranteeing a spot at any number of schools until your DD/DS makes their final decision. It's not like your sneaking around their back and they will withdraw the acceptance if they find out your child was accepted by another school. My youngest was deciding between two Universities. We made deposits at both until she made the final commitment. One sent a letter saying they were sorry she did not choose them but no refund was forthcoming. Hey, you pays your money and you takes your chances.
 

Mitty

Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2017
Messages
108
I completely agree with Redrock. These are young ADULTS soon to be attending USNA. If you do not treat them like an adult the outcome might be just that. Discuss their options and let them decide. Sometimes life does not work out as you plan but it is going to be up to them to make the best of it. We have to fight the urge to catch our kids when they fall. If there is never a consequence to a bad decision, then likely there is no lesson learned. Sorry about my seemingly heartless two cents :zip:
 

vadad23

Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2016
Messages
63
As someone who is attending the academy this fall, I don't think I would approve of my parents depositing a plan B just in case and not telling me. I feel like the decision is up to the appointee of whether or not they want to hold onto an "escape route". If they don't have a solid plan b and then drop out, it is up to them to decide what to do after that. I know parents are concerned about this transition, mine especially, but part of the success comes from letting your child be the adult they will have to be when they get there and figuring out their own lives.

@RedRock, your sentiment is exactly what I would think anyone who will make it at USNA would have and probably no small part on why you were selected to be a part of the Brigade. It's actually the exact same my DD has as well. That said, parents will never stop worrying about their kids. ;-) I see my role as a parent to try to provide the widest and most complete view possible to my P2B to make the best possible decision in the context of what we as parents know are my DD's strengths and blindspots.
 

vadad23

Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2016
Messages
63
I don't think double or even triple deposit is an "offense". What can they do to your student, keep the deposit? Many will return it if you explain the SA acceptance others may not. Many also require a deposit before SA admission decision and Plebe Summer. There is nothing unethical about guaranteeing a spot at any number of schools until your DD/DS makes their final decision. It's not like your sneaking around their back and they will withdraw the acceptance if they find out your child was accepted by another school. My youngest was deciding between two Universities. We made deposits at both until she made the final commitment. One sent a letter saying they were sorry she did not choose them but no refund was forthcoming. Hey, you pays your money and you takes your chances.

I guess my question is how long to hold onto a Plan B? Pay deposit and have a escape hatch after PS? Defer until the following year enrollment and commit fully to at least finishing Plebe year no matter what? Only hold onto it until reporting for I day?

If it were any other college, this would not be an issue of course. SA's are hard. Period. It is challenging to the max. I know that is what is the draw for my DD who is drawn to the challenge. But until you are at that point of pushed, stressed and fatigued to a point you have never been before and wondering if you had made a huge mistake, I don't know that any P2B will really know what they would do. USNA or other SA would be the only time I would even fathom having a Plan B.
 

USNAredrock

Class of 2021
Joined
Mar 15, 2017
Messages
49
As someone who is attending the academy this fall, I don't think I would approve of my parents depositing a plan B just in case and not telling me. I feel like the decision is up to the appointee of whether or not they want to hold onto an "escape route". If they don't have a solid plan b and then drop out, it is up to them to decide what to do after that. I know parents are concerned about this transition, mine especially, but part of the success comes from letting your child be the adult they will have to be when they get there and figuring out their own lives.

@RedRock, your sentiment is exactly what I would think anyone who will make it at USNA would have and probably no small part on why you were selected to be a part of the Brigade. It's actually the exact same my DD has as well. That said, parents will never stop worrying about their kids. ;-) I see my role as a parent to try to provide the widest and most complete view possible to my P2B to make the best possible decision in the context of what we as parents know are my DD's strengths and blindspots.
Vadad23, you remind me of my parents (which is the highest compliment I can give :)) Sounds like you have raised DD well and I know she will succeed in whatever path she chooses! Good luck and be sure to let me know if DD ends up at the academy!
 

jl123

Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2016
Messages
1,347
I don't think double or even triple deposit is an "offense". What can they do to your student, keep the deposit?
The can rescind an offer of admission. Although I have never heard of a case in which an offer was actually rescinded, I have heard of instances where it was formally considered by the college and others that caused a student/family considerable angst when the jilted college discovered the double deposit.

With respect to ethics, it hinges on whether an applicant/parent considers themselves bound by the agreement not to double deposit signed when submitting the application. Arguments pro and con have been debated endlessly on this forum.
 
Top