Please Don't Be That Parent

JohnnyLaw21 said:
So what if a parent helped their kid set up some meetings? You have no idea what else is going on in the cadet's life.

How do you know what kind of parents are in your WP Club? You don't attend any meetings.

I bet you also look down upon posters in the various Facebook groups that support service academy parents.
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This was a task given to the cadet as part of earning this particular privilege; it was not given to the parent to complete (nor should ANY assignments given to cadets by their superiors be completed by parents.)

I know what kind of parents attend our local club because we attended several meetings after our son became a Plebe. I continue to be contacted by these parents for what, IMO, is inappropriate participation in our adult cadet's military life.

I don't use Facebook.
 
Parents groups can vary greatly. Where I used to live the interaction I had with them at some alumni and admissions events was mixed. And we used to get a few dozen kids a year into NAPS, foundation and USNA. It was a massive area with the full range of hands off parents and then really strong dominate parents who in my opinion way over stepped boundaries. The area I now live in has ~5-12 kids a year between NAPS and USNA and the parents are very relaxed and helpful. I haven't seen any craziness in that crew and we do a lot of joint events between the parents group and alumni group and I enjoy them. I think the groups can vary widely and no two are the same. Parents just have to decide if the groups work for them and how involved they want to me.
 
So a Candidate is supposed to work 100% Independently. Negotiating the deadlines , understanding all the requirements, make all the arrangements alone, while maintaining a grueling sports and academic schedule, to be considered the "right kind" to win an appointment to an Academy.

Where beginning the 1st day he/she will spend the next 10 months having any sense of individuality and independence stripped away. Being to told when to walk when to run, how to eat and when to potty. They are even sent texts telling them what types of coats to wear to the Football games and another if the weather report changes. Re- programed to think as a cohesive unit supporting each other in the drive to achieve an objective. I always pictured the military an organizational effort, team work at it's best.

No! don't you dare help that Candidate, they might learn to count on the team. Ok, if you say so...Hmmm, maybe that is where the Army came up with that AWFUL slogan "An Army of One"
 
Forumjunkie, not sure anyone one here went to that extreme. Understand you are being sarcastic, or at least I think you are, but why take it to this level? I don't think anyone said to do this in vacuum as An Army of One. There will be many candidates who do. Other candidates will have parents check things over, remind them of deadlines, etc. The only few items I can remember my parents being involved in any of it was driving me to my dodmerb physical, MOC interview and drop stuff at the post office (before portals existed). They never filled out a documents for me, knew when things were due or made my calls. I can tell you that was the norm for my classmates. Some had parents who did help read essays, proof paperwork and reminded them of deadlines. I don't see anything wrong with these items. Sure we can have different opinions and stances on this stuff. My opinions might not be of others and that is fine. Everyone's families are different, I get that. I have voiced where I think the line is for a candidate (and when I say candidate I mean a current senior applying to USNA... not talking about recruitment or other items) and why. It's fine to disagree with that.
 
The candidate should be the one requesting assistance, asking questions, reading instructions, and seeking requirements. I do not at all think this is too much to ask for a 16/17 year old.

Email: "Hello LT Smith, I had a question about x, what should I do in y situation. I have z circumstances that I'm worried about and would like more information. Thanks for your help. Sincerely, Timmy, Candidate # 625842."

I called people as a 17 year old with not much more phone etiquette than "Good morning, My name is x, candidate number y, I have z problem, can you help me?" I find it baffling that this is too difficult for any high school junior or senior.

Yeah, it wouldn't pass for proper correspondence as a midshipman, but I bet folks would be a lot more impressed by that effort than by something from a parent. They might even make a note of it.

The advice here is to keep competitive, and to remember that BGOs, Congressional staffers, and various Admissions officers can and probably do remember the candidates that were mature enough to handle their own affairs as well as those who were not. If the parent is tracking things and following up on issues for the candidate, that's very telling. A high school junior/senior taking all those fancy AP classes, and in all those club leadership roles, and he can't even keep a calendar to track something this important?

Maybe a better story: The congressional staffer for my district made it very clear she would toss applications if parents called in. She had no time for kids who couldn't make a simple phone call, and she really didn't care about whatever excuses. Work it out, make it happen. If your coach is more important than your nomination, so be it. If you have a stingy teacher that can't let you slip out to take a phone call from the Congressman's office about your future, figure out another time and let her know. It was a competitive district, she could afford to do that, and congressional offices are free to use whatever criteria they deem fit. So, if you were a parent in my district at the time that called in because Bobby was busy at baseball or whatever, you just robbed your candidate of a chance at a nomination from the Representative. Which was absolutely crippling, because getting a nomination from a California Senator was exceptionally unlikely. Undoubtedly candidates were sunk due to this policy.

Real consequences there, and partially why I take this position.
 
nuensis said:
Maybe a better story: The congressional staffer for my district made it very clear she would toss applications if parents called in. She had no time for kids who couldn't make a simple phone call, and she really didn't care about whatever excuses. Work it out, make it happen. If your coach is more important than your nomination, so be it. If you have a stingy teacher that can't let you slip out to take a phone call from the Congressman's office about your future, figure out another time and let her know. It was a competitive district, she could afford to do that, and congressional offices are free to use whatever criteria they deem fit. So, if you were a parent in my district at the time that called in because Bobby was busy at baseball or whatever, you just robbed your candidate of a chance at a nomination from the Representative. Which was absolutely crippling, because getting a nomination from a California Senator was exceptionally unlikely. Undoubtedly candidates were sunk due to this policy.

Real consequences there, and partially why I take this position.
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This thread got a little heated, but I can see both sides of the discussion. I sincerely doubt that there are a large number of candidates who navigate the nomination/appointment process without a significant amount of help from parents or some other individual or individuals. Certainly there is "help" that most of us would consider inappropriate, but I don't believe the issue is as black and white as some to the posters on this thread have described. Although I would strongly prefer that my DS make all contacts for himself, I can see instances, such as Milly described, where I would get involved without a second thought.

I also understand that we are talking about candidates not cadets. Once a son or daughter accepts an appointment, the circumstances change drastically. At that point they are in the military and Uncle Sam holds sway.

Nuensis, I find it hard to believe that a Member of Congress would allow a staffer to arbitrarily flush an application for a phone call from a nominee's parent: someone who also happens to be a constituent. The MOC's view service academy nominations as a perk that they can bring home to constituents. Although the process is generally free of politics, the MOC's are politicians. They would not want a negative light shined on a process that would normally provide them a feel-good-story for their district. Worse, that staffer might trash a "no-brainer" file for the dubious infraction of a parent having the temerity of picking up the phone and calling his/her congressman's office. That staffer's action could easily be counter-productive to the desired outcome of finding the most qualified candidates for the MOC's slate. Certainly, there are parents who go overboard, but this staffer sounds like she rode the pendulum too far to the other side. Just my two cents.
 
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I’m puzzled as to why there is so much push back regarding the advice that it may not be in the best interest of the candidate to have parent call or e-mail on their behalf. Many posters in this thread are offering advice that there may be a negative impact to this practice. There is no need to justify your actions. Either take the advice or risk the possibility of your actions negatively impacting your candidate.
 
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JDB said:
Nuensis, I find it hard to believe that a Member of Congress would allow a staffer to arbitrarily flush an application for a phone call from a nominee's parent: someone who also happens to be a constituent. The MOC's view service academy nominations as a perk that they can bring home to constituents. Although the process is generally free of politics, the MOC's are politicians. They would not want a negative light shined on a process that would normally provide them a feel-good-story for their district. Worse, that staffer might trash a "no-brainer" file for the dubious infraction of a parent having the temerity of picking up the phone and calling his/her congressman's office. That staffer's action could easily be counter-productive to the desired outcome of finding the most qualified candidates for the MOC's slate. Certainly, there are parents who go overboard, but this staffer sounds like she rode the pendulum too far to the other side. Just my two cents.
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"In the House, it's 435 fiefdoms and there's no centralized policy on how you do it," said R. Blake Chisam, a former lawyer for the House ethics panel. "Their method of collecting the candidates, the method of vetting the candidates and the method of selecting the candidates is up to the members."

"Although the process is generally free of politics, the MOC's are politicians." This is an oxymoron.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...emies-congress-nomination-army-navy/15452669/

Brenmaron said:
I’m puzzled as to why there is so much push back regarding the advice that it may not be in the best interest of the candidate to have parent call or e-mail on their behalf. Many posters in this thread are offering advice that there may be a negative impact to this practice. There is no need to justify your actions. Either take the advice or risk the possibility of your actions negatively impacting your candidate.
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Agreed - It is not necessary to justify your level of 'parental involvement'. Often sound advice is ignored on this forum.
 
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When Daughter went to CVW we did ask for a meeting with her Admission Officer. Not as Helicoptor Parents but just to find where she was in the process. It was a good conversation for about an hour and very informative. They don't think parents should be out of the loop as they do understand that the candidates are 17 and 18 year olds possibly making a life commitment.
 
VelveteenR said:
This was a task given to the cadet as part of earning this particular privilege; it was not given to the parent to complete (nor should ANY assignments given to cadets by their superiors be completed by parents.)

I know what kind of parents attend our local club because we attended several meetings after our son became a Plebe. I continue to be contacted by these parents for what, IMO, is inappropriate participation in our adult cadet's military life.

I don't use Facebook.
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I highly doubt that a sanctioned WP parents club would be doing anything inappropriate, Velveteen Rabbit.
 
I think the idea that a candidate should "own" (can't think of a better term) the process of applying to an SA is valid for all the reasons mentioned; parents clearly should not "own" the process. The appropriate level of parental involvement probably needs to consider a lot of factors and is, I think, a personal decision between the parent and child.

My DD and DS both applied to USNA in the last few years (DD is USNA class of 2019, DS was not accepted and is at a SMC on ROTC scholarship). When DD applied, she did everything on her own. DW and I know almost nothing about the mechanics of the application process because we weren't involved, other than getting general updates from DD. We did drive her to appointments as necessary and sat in on a portion of the BGO interview. When DS came along his sister guided him somewhat with general suggestions having just gone through the process, but she was a Plebe with little free time. Again with DS, we were not involved much.

For us, parental involvement mainly consisted of "pumping the brakes" a bit to make sure USNA was what they really wanted since both were so gung ho about it. Not that we were against their chosen path, just that we wanted to make sure they were considering all available options and making a thoughtful decision about their future. Other parents may feel the need to get involved in other ways, based on their own circumstances. To me, stating that the candidate should own the process doesn't necessarily mean that any level of parental involvement is a terrible thing. In my opinion, being involved as a parent should not cross the line into taking on responsibility of owning the process.

Just my 2 cents to throw on the pile...
 
The above is well stated. No one is suggesting parents shouldn't be interested and involved -- but the kid/candidate needs to be the one driving the process.

For those candidates who are "too busy" as h.s. juniors/seniors to call their MOC office or email their RD . . . they are in for a rude awakening come I-Day. I guarantee their lives will be much, much busier at USNA than in h.s. And there will be LOTS of military requirements, both large and small, that they are expected to make happen despite their super-busy schedules as plebes. And mommy and daddy won't be there to help.

Parents, you can be a tremendous help to your kids as they navigate the SA process. You can provide advice on when to call and what to say, what to wear to interviews, help them with practice questions, proofread their essays, help them decide whether the military is right for them, etc. But learning to juggle a bunch of stuff and take responsibility for things is something that, if your kids learn to do it now, will only help them in a few months.

Bottom line: You never stop being their parent(s) but, if you really love them, start letting them "go" in terms of doing things on their own by themselves.
 
JohnnyLaw21 said:
I highly doubt that a sanctioned WP parents club would be doing anything inappropriate, Velveteen Rabbit.
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Your reading/comprehension skills are underwhelming, Johnny. The "IMO" in my comment means "In My Opinion." In my opinion, any participation by me or my husband in our cadet's military life (note the adjective "military") is inappropriate. I am not talking about 16- or 17-year-old applicants; I am referring to 19- and 20-year-old cadets who are past their Plebe year. Other parents in our local club do not agree with us. As @NavyHoops said above:

NavyHoops said:
I think the groups can vary widely and no two are the same. Parents just have to decide if the groups work for them and how involved they want to be.
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That quote pretty much sums it up nicely for me.
 
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VelveteenR said:
In my opinion, any participation by me or my husband in our cadet's military life (note the adjective "military") is inappropriate.
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Velveteen, do you consider things like parent's weekend, athletic contests, ring weekend, graduation, local game watches, fundraisers for AOG, tailgaters, letter writing get togethers, presentations to parents by grads about post academy life, etc, etc, etc to be participating in your cadet's military life?
 
Ultimately, the test of too much or too little will be the junior officer's ability to solve problems on his or her own, advocate for themselves and forge their own way on their military path and in life. At some point, they have to start developing and practicing those skills in real world situations.

What we have here is diversity in parenting styles and level of involvement. As with most things, any style too far from a balanced center may have an adverse impact. For those candidates, appointees, mids and cadets who had too much (and the opinions on that are clearly infinite) parental hand-holding/support/involvement, they will either adjust, overcome, and rapidly grow that skill set, or they won't.

I rate this at half-price, .01 cents.
 
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Reading through this thread....I can honestly say this process has been as worthwhile and rewarding for us as parents as it has been for our child. On occasion, we would place a short concise to-do list on his placemat at the the table, to gaze at with sleepy eyes while eating a bowl of cereal. No discussion, just a gentle reminder from his parents before embarking on an insanely busy day. More times than not, he has reminded me: "Mom, I've got this." Whatever the outcome, he's grown leaps and bounds in the last 6 months, as we've watched our teen learn to pile on even more responsibility. As for us, we've learned to let go. And that...is priceless.
 
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