Plebe class 2023

golfindad

golfindad

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I have heard that an unusually large number of plebe candidates dropped during indoc and before completing indoc. From different "sources", I have heard 12, 16 and 27. While I believe the number is closer to 16, I am positive that the number was much higher than the 1-1.5% in the past. Additionally, I have heard that scuttlebutt from the regiment is that the class is the weakest in terms of upper body strength ever. I also heard this from a different direction as well, and, that Navy may have the same issue.

I know, sending out rumors here, but, because I have heard this from different folks, I believe the general comments although the numbers may be a little off.
 
I have heard the number of plebe candidates dropping during INDOC this year was 20. Weakness is a symptom of the relative lack of physical fitness in youth of today and mirrors the difficulty our recruiters are having in finding qualified enlisted personnel as well. Both my DS '13 and DD '21 thought INDOC was pretty easy. My DD reported that many plebe candidates (both male and female) in her class, and in the class of '22 for which she was cadre, were literally crying during PT sessions.
 
Until we see some actual, hard numbers this reeks of the ole' "back in my day" routine. You know when the ships were made of wood and the men were made of steel? Because every class after MY class had it sooooo much easier, and today they're weaker, and dumber, and blah blah blah blah blah blahhhhhhhh.

Every class and old crusty grad says this same thing. Yet somehow, KP keeps producing decent folks.

I don't know where a 1-1.5% drop rate for indoc comes from....? My class reported in the mid 290s and we were in the low 270s by the time indoc ended. I think we probably only graduated 180 or of the original 290 that reported.
 
1-1.5% rate for drop during indoc (during, not after) is from the statistics released by the academy as well as those of the other academies covering the last several years.

This has nothing to do with "back in my day." It has to do with a class that is lacking in PT ability. And I assure you it is not based on idle comments or reports from unreliable folks. Believe, or disbelieve, such is your prerogative. However, KP is not the only academy with this issue this year.
 
My class was hard as nails. We were so locked on during indoc we actually finished with more members that we started. We literally were spontaneously multiplying. Fact: the grinder is actually one foot lower than the surrounding ground because when we did pushups on it, we actually forced the earth down. Another Fact: every class after us was worthless and weak.

I am going to chose to disbelieve 2023 is so abysmal since I've heard this story every year since I went through indoc, which was a long time ago. Everything about my own class's awesomeness is true though!
 
beyond said:
Because every class after MY class had it sooooo much easier, and today they're weaker, and dumber
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This is 100% true

KP Eng said:
Fact: the grinder is actually one foot lower than the surrounding ground because when we did pushups on it, we actually forced the earth down.
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Fact: The grinder was two feet above the ground when my class went through indoc

KP Eng said:
Another Fact: every class after us was worthless and weak.
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Another Fact: Your class started out worthless and weak but our class graduated certifiable awesomeness.
 
This is like sharing Chuck Norris Facts! Thank you for a LOL after a grueling day of travel and business meetings.

Now, if we could come up with a Chuck Norris and USMMA factoid...after all, he is an Air Force vet.
 
My DS is currently at NROTC NSI Session 2 at Great Lakes. For the uninformed, NSI is New Student Indoctrination. It's a brand new program (1st year) where they send all NROTC kids to a 3 week indoc at the Great Lakes training facility.

As a salty KP grad who went through my own indoc 33 years ago and also was an officer at indoc for the Class of 1993 (damn I'm old), I tried to impart some wisdom to my boy as he shipped out. Tales of "walking the gauntlet" outside Delano Hall and Plebe Beats where the pushers seemed to crank up the temperature in the barracks, kids were passing out, and I tried to dissolve into the the wall or sang the fight song and the alma mater in the hopes that I would be ignored. Now as far as attrition rate at KP when I was there, there was no way it was 1% or 2%. In my company alone, we lost an entire room over a 2 day period just in my end of the hall. I know we lost at least 8 to 10 kids during those 2 weeks. Kids would go to the infirmary and never come back. I dont think they left on medical. They may have gone there initially for a twisted ankle or headache, but thats not why they left. It's not for everyone. I remember people crying at the payphones during our 5 minute call home. Some of them stayed and some didnt. I dont think the Class of 23 is in any different shape physically than any preceding class. We had kids who showed up totally out of shape in my class and the Class of 93 had its share of kids who were no where near being in the shape they should have been in. I'm sure the percentage of out of shape kids this year is probably no different than it's been over the past 30-40 years. Does it make it easier to get through indoc if you are in shape? 100%. If you are terrified to go to PT because you can't run a mile or do pushups, you are just adding additional stress to yourself. Indoc is stressful enough that you don't need to add more pressure, so I think kids in shape may be less likely to drop on request.

I believe the reported attrition rate at USNA was less than 1% last year. They started with approximately 1300 plebes and lost 10 from indoc. I had no idea it was that low. I was pretty shocked when I read that. If KP is putting out statistics that their attrition is normally between 1%-2%, then maybe that's what it is now. Maybe indoc has changed or they are getting kids who are more prepared mentally. They have the numbers, I don't.

Stay safe and smooth sailing!
 
I love how in this thread the only people who saying the class of 23 is weaker or dropping out at a higher rate are not KP grads.

The class of 23 is probably not very much different than 22,21,20,19, etc. The training that they're receiving is surely very different but also very similar than previous years. My class started with 265 plebes reporting in. At graduation there were a total of 99 commissioning SSO and 74 AD. That's a total of 173, add maybe 10 deferred grads and the class of 19 had ~183 people at the end. That's a 70% retention rate, and that's probably what the academy has done historically.
 
My class started with approximately 280. We graduated 199 and that included approximately 50 setbacks from the previous class. Calc is a killer!
 
KP1990 said:
My DS is currently at NROTC NSI Session 2 at Great Lakes. For the uninformed, NSI is New Student Indoctrination. It's a brand new program (1st year) where they send all NROTC kids to a 3 week indoc at the Great Lakes training facility.

As a salty KP grad who went through my own indoc 33 years ago and also was an officer at indoc for the Class of 1993 (damn I'm old), I tried to impart some wisdom to my boy as he shipped out. Tales of "walking the gauntlet" outside Delano Hall and Plebe Beats where the pushers seemed to crank up the temperature in the barracks, kids were passing out, and I tried to dissolve into the the wall or sang the fight song and the alma mater in the hopes that I would be ignored. Now as far as attrition rate at KP when I was there, there was no way it was 1% or 2%. In my company alone, we lost an entire room over a 2 day period just in my end of the hall. I know we lost at least 8 to 10 kids during those 2 weeks. Kids would go to the infirmary and never come back. I dont think they left on medical. They may have gone there initially for a twisted ankle or headache, but thats not why they left. It's not for everyone. I remember people crying at the payphones during our 5 minute call home. Some of them stayed and some didnt. I dont think the Class of 23 is in any different shape physically than any preceding class. We had kids who showed up totally out of shape in my class and the Class of 93 had its share of kids who were no where near being in the shape they should have been in. I'm sure the percentage of out of shape kids this year is probably no different than it's been over the past 30-40 years. Does it make it easier to get through indoc if you are in shape? 100%. If you are terrified to go to PT because you can't run a mile or do pushups, you are just adding additional stress to yourself. Indoc is stressful enough that you don't need to add more pressure, so I think kids in shape may be less likely to drop on request.

I believe the reported attrition rate at USNA was less than 1% last year. They started with approximately 1300 plebes and lost 10 from indoc. I had no idea it was that low. I was pretty shocked when I read that. If KP is putting out statistics that their attrition is normally between 1%-2%, then maybe that's what it is now. Maybe indoc has changed or they are getting kids who are more prepared mentally. They have the numbers, I don't.

Stay safe and smooth sailing!
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Good points, @KP1990 and interesting to hear your perspective from way back when! ;) Also, I believe any reported attrition rates do not count medical setbacks. This would hold true for a lower 'true' number for Indoc attrition for KP and other academies. If you take away the medical setbacks, I would guess that 2023 is running about on par with other Indoc classes. Always a chance to be higher or lower, but we will have to wait to see what the official reported numbers are.
 
Capt MJ said:
This is like sharing Chuck Norris Facts! Thank you for a LOL after a grueling day of travel and business meetings.

Now, if we could come up with a Chuck Norris and USMMA factoid...after all, he is an Air Force vet.
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Chuck who? Is that the kid who quit first day because he couldn't hack KP back in the day?
 
Most of them voluntarily disenrolled (quit). Many more failed the PRT for first trimester and will be in remediation to be given a chance to improve their fitness.
 
Plebe Candidate here ('23), and from what I've seen, most people voluntarily quit rather than get sent home. Yeah, part of the reason why a lot of people leave is because of the physical stress, but the major reasons are because of a change in lifestyle and the enormous amount of stress they put on you. During indoc, nobody from my platoon quit. However, our DI's just happened to be some of the hardest and most physically intense in the regiment. We went through smoke/pt sessions that other platoons never came close to doing because we also did a lot of stupid things.

After indoc (now), there are two kids that were in my platoon who left. They completed indoc, but realized that KP just isn't for them. One was extremely home sick and missed his old life, the other realized that he no longer wants to go sailing or go into the military. I have friends in other companies who are leaving because they don't prefer the lifestyle.

Most people will push through the physical fitness and pain to stay here if they want. The regiment also looks to help those who are physically sub-par more than simply kicking them out. If you don't have the motivation to be at KP, you won't make it.

Also, I don't think a single candidate was removed for being too weak physically.
 
KP Eng said:
@Austrasian Congrats on finishing indoc. Now make sure you take care of your academics. Academics eats more midshipmen than every other reason combined.
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Other than Academics, behavior, and resignation you can probably count all other departures from KP in a given year on one hand and have fingers left over.
 
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