plebe year class ranking

This whole process is interesting. I am curious as to why those who are tier one majors are not given any “handicap” points as those who are varsity athletes. Clearly those who are tier one have a greater burden on their time as do varsity athletes.

Also, why those doing tutoring (some acronym I cannot recall) aren’t offered points or credit like a billet would provide in terms of their OOM.
 
tweety_bird said:
My squad leader sat down with everyone in the squad to have a progress check on goals we had set for ourselves earlier in the semester. He told me my score and explained why I was ranked that way based off of my strengths and weaknesses, and discussed ways to move forward and improve next semester. Because I am a plebe, we also had similar meetings with members of training staff.
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This is somewhat good to hear…however, hopefully some sort of expectations is provided at the beginning of the semester (chain of command and training staff) and feedback (some positives, but more importantly - areas to improve) is provided consistently throughout. One day your names will be as senior raters (or later on as reporting senior) for Sailors (and officers) and if your LPO/LCPO is having these same types of feedback sessions it will make debriefing Evals much more easier…”Why was I only a must promote (MP)?…”Remember our counseling three months ago where we talked about where you needed to improve…and it didn’t?” It also works the other way, too…bumping Sailors up. Additionally, and more importantly, you hopefully help that individual grow (the objective of counseling), personally and professionally.

Heatherg21 said:
This whole process is interesting. I am curious as to why those who are tier one majors are not given any “handicap” points as those who are varsity athletes. Clearly those who are tier one have a greater burden on their time as do varsity athletes.

Also, why those doing tutoring (some acronym I cannot recall) aren’t offered points or credit like a billet would provide in terms of their OOM.
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I wouldn’t equate/compare major groups together…just because someone is in a Group 2 or 3 major doesn’t mean they have less of a burden or it is “easier” than a Group 1. This is why someone getting an A or B (as an example) shouldn’t be compared…bottom line they are meeting mission to graduate. A D or F would be another story. I would hope the expectation is that MIDN are tutoring other MIDN, as required, when desired, and based on being a subject matter expert…doesn’t need to be a billet…it should be an “all hands” effort. Furthermore, someone who consistently goes out of their way to help others, I would hope, is subjectively discussed at the ranking boards…one of those items that can generally be observed but not typically captured as a metric per se.
 
I think when all is said and done they all become O1’s

In my opinion, regardless of how one is ranked at USNA - having a reputation of not pulling your weight can haunt you a lifetime especially with your own classmates.

Be a good classmate!
 
Valid points all around. One thing I suspect all MIDNs learn is to become cynical of performance reviews earlier in life than other folks.
As a manager I have helped implement scoring system reviews, gone with ones basically on cocktail napkins, verbal only, forced ranking, etc... None hold up over 2-3 years without us seeing major flaws somewhere.

Most fail due to the lack of objectivity of supervisor/scorers, who feel pressured to show improvement but also reluctance to show regression.
 
My DS, who was a squad leader this past semester, said he sits down with every squad member and explains why they received his grade (which is not the final aptitude grade). He’s a 2/C. He had to give a Firstie a D, said he was the worst mid he had ever encountered with a horrible attitude). I asked what his own aptitude grade was and he said, “Haven’t checked. Don’t care”. He said it doesn’t matter because the Firstie who he gave a D to was raised to an A by the CO - the Firstie is a varsity athlete.
 
usnabgo08 said:
This is somewhat good to hear…however, hopefully some sort of expectations is provided at the beginning of the semester (chain of command and training staff) and feedback (some positives, but more importantly - areas to improve) is provided consistently throughout. One day your names will be as senior raters (or later on as reporting senior) for Sailors (and officers) and if your LPO/LCPO is having these same types of feedback sessions it will make debriefing Evals much more easier…”Why was I only a must promote (MP)?…”Remember our counseling three months ago where we talked about where you needed to improve…and it didn’t?” It also works the other way, too…bumping Sailors up. Additionally, and more importantly, you hopefully help that individual grow (the objective of counseling), personally and professionally.


I wouldn’t equate/compare major groups together…just because someone is in a Group 2 or 3 major doesn’t mean they have less of a burden or it is “easier” than a Group 1. This is why someone getting an A or B (as an example) shouldn’t be compared…bottom line they are meeting mission to graduate. A D or F would be another story. I would hope the expectation is that MIDN are tutoring other MIDN, as required, when desired, and based on being a subject matter expert…doesn’t need to be a billet…it should be an “all hands” effort. Furthermore, someone who consistently goes out of their way to help others, I would hope, is subjectively discussed at the ranking boards…one of those items that can generally be observed but not typically captured as a metric per se.
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GPA is a factor in the ranking. So an ‘A’ does matter. I have yet to talk to a MIDN who is an engineering major who gets more sleep than a non STEM major. I know how hard varsity athletes work and the burden of time due to practices and travel takes a toll. If the system gives them ‘points’ for that, fine. Totally fair. But why wouldn’t the more challenging majors do the same? Not trying to be argumentative, genuinely curious.
Everyone should be a good shipmate and lift others around them. For me that goes without saying. The tutoring I’m talking about is not casual help, it’s actually on their schedule. It involves communication and work with the instructor and then reteaching the course once a week.

Also, I know there will never be a ‘perfect’ system.
 
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Heatherg21 said:
GPA is a factor in the ranking. So an ‘A’ does matter. I have yet to talk to a MIDN who is an engineering major who gets more sleep than a non STEM major. I know how hard varsity athletes work and the burden of time due to practices and travel takes a toll. If the system gives them ‘points’ for that, fine. Totally fair. But why wouldn’t the more challenging majors do the same? Not trying to be argumentative, genuinely curious.
Everyone should be a good shipmate and lift others around them. For me that goes without saying. The tutoring I’m talking about is not casual help, it’s actually on their schedule. It involves communication and work with the instructor and then reteaching the course once a week.

Also, I know there will never be a ‘perfect’ system.
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You're thinking of MGSP.

Anything that isn't quantifiable should be fleshed out in ranking boards. If they aren't, that's the fault of the squad leader or platoon commander, and honestly great practice for later on when division officers and department heads fight for Sailors in ranking boards.

Quantifying difficulty of different majors would be a slippery slope. Are the engineering majors really more difficult than a group 2 like Physics, Chemistry, or Computer Science? Do we really want to automatically put all group 3 majors at the bottom of the barrel? What about the honors programs? The dual majors and language minors? The group 3 Chinese major that scored a 3/3/3 on the DLPT/OPI? How difficult is learning Chinese vs. electrical engineering?

On the other hand, I don't think there's any argument that varsity sports > club sports > intramural frisbee. They play up the "every MIDN is an athlete" thing, but intramural sports amounts to playing a bit for about an hour and walking back to Bancroft.
 
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Heatherg21 said:
GPA is a factor in the ranking. So an ‘A’ does matter. I have yet to talk to a MIDN who is an engineering major who gets more sleep than a non STEM major. I know how hard varsity athletes work and the burden of time due to practices and travel takes a toll. If the system gives them ‘points’ for that, fine. Totally fair. But why wouldn’t the more challenging majors do the same? Not trying to be argumentative, genuinely curious.
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I've known puh-lenty of Engineering mids who got their full share (and more) of sleep. Years after graduation, some who kept to themselves but outwardly seemed to be superserious/hardworking have admitted to how much they slacked off. The most TV watching/relaxed guys I saw during my 4 yrs were a couple of Engineers. Both of them went to Admiral Rickover's Nuke interviews and when asked about study hours reported under 10 hours per week, one of them was 6 hrs per week and both had superb grades. I was never an official tutor and they did not exist when I was a Mid but two of my roomies still laugh about how hard I worked to teach them Celestial Nav. It was never anything official and did not make it to my performance record.
 
Good input. Thank you. Mine is enjoying being able to catch up on sleep on break. He just left for the gym.
It is very difficult to make a system work well for all when there are so many variables. The individual MIDN being the largest variable.
Good discussion.
 
Heatherg21 said:
Good input. Thank you. Mine is enjoying being able to catch up on sleep on break. He just left for the gym.
It is very difficult to make a system work well for all when there are so many variables. The individual MIDN being the largest variable.
Good discussion.
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LOL my son eats, runs, workouts, or sleeps.

He said next semester will be tougher than the past one.
 
A1Janitor said:
LOL my son eats, runs, workouts, or sleeps.

He said next semester will be tougher than the past one.
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Yes. Mine is a bit wary of this next semester. His minor isn’t helping but he loves it.
 
Dr. Strange Love said:
People who experience what the bottom feels like, and don’t run away from whatever the experience is telling them about the pitfalls that led them there in the first place … are usually the most successful people in life.
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So true! Much of my corporate career was with a Fortune 200 company that subjected all mid- and upper-level management to annual 360-degree feedback. I can’t say it was a pleasant process, but nothing helped my professional growth more.

We have a tendency to focus on negative feedback. But my company encouraged us to start with the positives and contemplate how we would continue developing our towering strength. Then we looked at the negatives and accepted the fact that, even if we disagreed with the feedback, it was how we were perceived. And perception is reality!

So I encourage mids getting their first meaningful taste of peer feedback to accept it as a gift. Yes, that can be very hard to do. But we can’t start to address our weaknesses until we recognize them. One thing I used to tell my underlings: Think of negative feedback not as others telling us what we do wrong, but how we can do better. And don’t we all want to do better? And that everyone, even water walkers, have a weakness that must be addressed.

Everyone must learn: Denying or justifying only prolongs our shortcomings, which leads to more negative feedback down the road.
 
MidCakePa said:
So true! Much of my corporate career was with a Fortune 200 company that subjected all mid- and upper-level management to annual 360-degree feedback. I can’t say it was a pleasant process, but nothing helped my professional growth more.

We have a tendency to focus on negative feedback. But my company encouraged us to start with the positives and contemplate how we would continue developing our towering strength. Then we looked at the negatives and accepted the fact that, even if we disagreed with the feedback, it was how we were perceived. And perception is reality!

So I encourage mids getting their first meaningful taste of peer feedback to accept it as a gift. Yes, that can be very hard to do. But we can’t start to address our weaknesses until we recognize them. One thing I used to tell my underlings: Think of negative feedback not as others telling us what we do wrong, but how we can do better. And don’t we all want to do better? And that everyone, even water walkers, have a weakness that must be addressed.

Everyone must learn: Denying or justifying only prolongs our shortcomings, which leads to more negative feedback down the road.
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I also spent a career (34 years) in a Fortune 10 company...we had a ranking process that was not perfect but as good a one can be. I agree with @MidCakePa comments above. I was ranked lower for a few years and had to really take the feedback and take action to improve. A few ranking cycles later I was ranked much higher. One difference, that MIDN have, is that they only have a few years to TAKE ACTION to improve. Thats a challenge but I'm sure it can be done.
 
Nobody disagrees with improvement.

Hopefully the ones who hand higher rankings to friends - also improve in the fleet.
 
14 days home and DS has not logged into the system to see his grades/OOM/rank/QPR/ etc. His password expired and he has to log onto his USNA laptop to reset and he is not excited to pullout the USNA laptop. However he said he knows for the most part what his final grades should have been so he is not anticipating any surprises. Regarding class rank he knows he is not at the top nor at the bottom, so again he is indifferent. He is just trying to suck up as much media, rack time and home cooking as possible.
 
LT360 said:
14 days home and DS has not logged into the system to see his grades/OOM/rank/QPR/ etc. His password expired and he has to log onto his USNA laptop to reset and he is not excited to pullout the USNA laptop. However he said he knows for the most part what his final grades should have been so he is not anticipating any surprises. Regarding class rank he knows he is not at the top nor at the bottom, so again he is indifferent. He is just trying to suck up as much media, rack time and home cooking as possible.
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His priorities are straight. Good for him! Can't get enough of good ol' home cookin'.
 
Expect them to go quiet as departure time approaches and the awareness returns that the grind starts the minute they get in the Yard.

Newbies to this drill may want to log into USNA accounts to ensure they don’t miss a critical directive. I can’t tell you how many sponsor mids lounging around our house between summer training blocks let out a yelp of surprise when they logged in and found a mando pre-cruise brief has been moved up by 4 hours and scheduled departure is that night instead of next AM. Military folks know that even if they are on leave, it’s good to check the tether every once in a while. For the mids, nothing should change about time due back, but there could be emails about new requirements for COVID, academic schedule, briefings, company meetings, etc. “I didn’t check my email” doesn’t fly.
 
Capt MJ said:
Newbies to this drill may want to log into USNA accounts to ensure they don’t miss a critical directive. I can’t tell you how many sponsor mids lounging around our house between summer training blocks let out a yelp of surprise when they logged in and found a mando pre-cruise brief has been moved up by 4 hours and scheduled departure is that night instead of next AM. Military folks know that even if they are on leave, it’s good to check the tether every once in a while. For the mids, nothing should change about time due back, but there could be emails about new requirements for COVID, academic schedule, briefings, company meetings, etc. “I didn’t check my email” doesn’t fly.
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DS is still "connected" via the multiple chat groups and emails on his phone. He has already received several "do now" actions during break that he had to act on. So from that regards he is good. It is just logging into "MIDS"? that he has to do from laptop.
 
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