Politics and academy life

[KuriAndre]

Not to be rude but your religious and political preferences are irrelevant once you join the services (not to say they aren't important, it's just not the time or the place to be bringing them up).

As a soldier or sailor, your job is to protect and serve the citizens of the US and uphold the Constitution.

Just like at a civilian job, your political ideology and religious status aren't relevant for the job and therefore doesn't need to be discussed. I believe this is the same attitude that is maintained at the Academies, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

If you would like to discuss your religion or ideologies, talk about them with friends or join a club with like-minded people.

My personal take is if your ideas and morals aren't about hurting anyone else, feel free to voice them. The world will choose whether to listen or not. Most people will let you alone whether your Catholic or Pagan, Liberal or Conservative, black or white.

 

[A1Janitor]

Not to be rude but your religious and political preferences are irrelevant once you join the services (not to say they aren't important, it's just not the time or the place to be bringing them up).

As a soldier or sailor, your job is to protect and serve the citizens of the US and uphold the Constitution.

Just like at a civilian job, your political ideology and religious status aren't relevant for the job and therefore doesn't need to be discussed. I believe this is the same attitude that is maintained at the Academies, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

If you would like to discuss your religion or ideologies, talk about them with friends or join a club with like-minded people.

My personal take is if your ideas and morals aren't about hurting anyone else, feel free to voice them. The world will choose whether to listen or not. Most people will let you alone whether your Catholic or Pagan, Liberal or Conservative, black or white.

It isn’t that simplistic, but it’s not my fight.

 

[Small Team Bacsi]

Back in the day I asked my Grad how political discussions went in the fleet.

he said among the officers politics and religion were never discussed.

if you do find yourself in political or religious arguments while on the yard or in the fleet then the problem is you.

and that goes for all the “moderates” on the left and the right.

 

[A1Janitor]

Back in the day I asked my Grad how political discussions went in the fleet.

he said among the officers politics and religion were never discussed.

if you do find yourself in political or religious arguments while on the yard or in the fleet then the problem is you.

and that goes for all the “moderates” on the left and the right.

The “problems” I refer to isn’t the midshipmen wanting to talk to anyone. My son - and his friends - don’t find themselves in political arguments while on the yard - and religion isn’t an issue. They ignore the discussions, and try to hide their views.

 

[Woop199]

The “problems” I refer to isn’t the midshipmen wanting to talk to anyone. My son - and his friends - don’t find themselves in political arguments while on the yard - and religion isn’t an issue. They ignore the discussions, and try to hide their views.

Have there been any instances (that you know of) inside the classroom where your son or others felt their values were attacked? I'm not referring to a dual party debate, but rather a biased professor that became problematic etc...

 

[A1Janitor]

Have there been any instances (that you know of) inside the classroom where your son or others felt their values were attacked? I'm not referring to a dual party debate, but rather a biased professor that became problematic etc...

Never. My son has loved his professors. But I can’t speak to any others’ experiences.

 

[UHBlackhawk]

Unfortunately, I think politics has been creeping into the military. I've heard of Cadets being harassed by fellow Cadets for not publically espousing certain "left-wing" political views. In the past, it was acceptable and even expected to keep silent on such matters. Now...
Hopefully, this is a phase but won't go so far as it did in the late 60s to 70s. That was a rough period for the military. I heard horror stories when I was a JO from my mentors about the 1970s Army, especially in places like Germany. It was a rough time to be an officer. I even remember reading a "Proceedings" article about unionizing the military enlisted ranks.

 

[cb7893]

Georgia's two incumbent Senators lost re-election recently.

Service Academy Nominations should not be political in any way in my opinion, just to put that out there.

That doesn't answer the question of why noms will be more difficult with two new Senators.

Are you suggesting that the new Georgia Senators need to be admonished to be non-political with their SA Nominations?

 

[Aviator25]

That doesn't answer the question of why noms will be more difficult with two new Senators.

Are you suggesting that the new Georgia Senators need to be admonished to be non-political with their SA Nominations?

No, read the other posts. The nomination that we are discussing was given out due to a political connection. As a result, that person feels like it is harder since that Senator is no longer in office.

 

[cb7893]

Cause of the person who I got the nomination from. I asked the Senator directly and because I knew them and they nominated me (not gonna say who it was) though.

So you asked either Sen. Loeffler or Sen. Perdue and one of them told you directly that noms will be more difficult to obtain with Sen. Warnock and Ossoff in office.

Were you given a reason why?

 

[Old Navy BGO]

But at an academy? Engage in those discussions, in the academic setting, and even some barracks settings, between equals. I'd avoid 1. discussing with upperclassmen not in an academic class with you, 2. your subordinates, 3. your commands and 4. enlisted personnel when you're an officer.

> I agree. Part of the problem we face today is that people can't carry on a civil political discussion, and because of that --they don't understand where the other side is coming from. Between my time at USNA and in the Navy and my time in law school, I've seen both sides -- I disagree with one, but at least understand where they are coming from.

USNA is probably 50/50 left to right leaning, but 80/20 left to right in terms of vocality (is that a word?). If you do what you're supposed to and avoid politics you will have zero issues.

> Actually quite a change from my day; I would have called it 90/10 right -- Reagan was the President. I do recall one of my Company-mates, who was a little left, complaining very vocally about the military "get out and vote" efforts, as he thought that was unfair because the military is traditionally fairly conservative.

> I will say that anecdotally, I heard from a Classmate who has a son at USNA, that the culture at USNA is far more "woke" than in my day ...some of that is probably good, but it is a problem when people are afraid to speak their minds.

My first master's is in public administration which is part political science, part management, and part history. We had to read the works of Karl Marx yet they weren't teaching us to be Marxists.

> He (she) who doesn't learn from History is forced to repeat it. I first saw that on a poster in my third grade classroom -- back then, I took it literally , thinking we would get held back in school ! Now it really has meaning !

There is an old saying, there are three things you don't talk about in the Ward- Religion, Politics, and I think the third was money. Good words to heed when you get to the Fleet.

 

[Aviator25]

So you asked either Sen. Loeffler or Sen. Perdue and one of them told you directly that noms will be more difficult to obtain with Sen. Warnock and Ossoff in office.

Were you given a reason why?

I feel like you are not understanding the point. The nomination was given since the person had personal access to the Senator and the Senator was able to give a nomination. Since the Senator lost re-election, obtaining a nomination next year through the traditional application process will be harder.

 

[cb7893]

No, read the other posts. The nomination that we are discussing was given out due to a political connection. As a result, that person feels like it is harder since that Senator is no longer in office.

That is exactly what I was trying to figure out. If a Senator actually told or implied to a candidate that his/her nomination is based on political connections, that should be front page news.

Cause of the person who I got the nomination from. I asked the Senator directly and because I knew them and they nominated me (not gonna say who it was) though.

I'll be rude and suggest that if this is a sample of his writing ability then I definitely believe that political connections played a part. And as a team member I wouldn't resent his/her using every advantage to gain an appointment as much as their inability to stay quiet about it.

 

[A1Janitor]

I feel like you are not understanding the point. The nomination was given since the person had personal access to the Senator and the Senator was able to give a nomination. Since the Senator lost re-election, obtaining a nomination next year through the traditional application process will be harder.

I don’t understand the message either.

Am I to assume someone got a nomination but not an offer of appointment, so the candidate will have to follow the same rules the rest of us do (because we don’t know the Senator) have to follow?

 

[Heatherg21]

> I agree. Part of the problem we face today is that people can't carry on a civil political discussion, and because of that --they don't understand where the other side is coming from. Between my time at USNA and in the Navy and my time in law school, I've seen both sides -- I disagree with one, but at least understand where they are coming from.


> Actually quite a change from my day; I would have called it 90/10 right -- Reagan was the President. I do recall one of my Company-mates, who was a little left, complaining very vocally about the military "get out and vote" efforts, as he thought that was unfair because the military is traditionally fairly conservative.

> I will say that anecdotally, I heard from a Classmate who has a son at USNA, that the culture at USNA is far more "woke" than in my day ...some of that is probably good, but it is a problem when people are afraid to speak their minds.


> He (she) who doesn't learn from History is forced to repeat it. I first saw that on a poster in my third grade classroom -- back then, I took it literally , thinking we would get held back in school ! Now it really has meaning !

There is an old saying, there are three things you don't talk about in the Ward- Religion, Politics, and I think the third was money. Good words to heed when you get to the Fleet.

Sammy Kershaw song, "politics, religion and her". Topics to avoid.

 

[Aviator25]

That is exactly what I was trying to figure out. If a Senator actually told or implied to a candidate that his/her nomination is based on political connections, that should be front page news.

I don’t understand the message either.

Am I to assume someone got a nomination but not an offer of appointment, so the candidate will have to follow the same rules the rest of us do (because we don’t know the Senator) have to follow?

Unfortunately, Senators/Members of Congress have their own discretion on how to give out nominations, but the vast majority do it on a solely competitive basis.

 

[UHBlackhawk]

One of the amazing parts of USNA is you will meet people from every cross walk of life... rich kids, poor kids, large families, tiny families, atheists, Christians, Jewish, Mormon, a tons of other religions you have only heard of, every race, big cities, rural farms, every state possible, US territories, and some other countries, sexual orientation, and everything in between. Be open minded and get to know tons of your classmates and shipmates, its amazing what you can learn from each other with just having a conversation. Yes a civil conversation, they can happen. Do Mids talk politics, yes. There is a time and place for it, like everything in the military. And yes, you can be friends with those who are not exactly like you. I have 4 extremely close friends from USNA. All 4 while at USNA were Christian Conservatives. 1 still falls in that category, 3 are more middle of the road politically, but are all still Christians.

As an officer your Marines or Sailors shouldn't know who you voted for or what party you are registered with. Your Sailors and Marines will be a very diverse group. More diverse then even what you see at USNA. Its your job to lead, mentor, train no matter what their background or beliefs are. I have no idea what your beliefs are and honestly it doesn't matter, but you could walk in as a young Ensign and have a Sailor say they are transgender and need assistance with maintaining standards and want to transition. Regardless of views, as an officer, its your job to help that Sailor or Marine navigate the orders and instructions, advocate for them and anything else that is required. Like I said, I have no idea what your views are or anyone else's are, but just calling this one out as its one that I have friends helping Sailors and Marines navigate today. That Sailor should never know what your views are on the topic, other then their leader helped them, watched out for them and provided guidance. As to the question about mental health... its a massive issue and has zero to do with politics. As someone who has led Marines on the battlefield its a huge topic. And its doesn't take a battlefield for it to be an issue.

I refused to register under a party when I was an officer. DW does the same. Although I make political donations, I do so in my name only so my wife has deniability. "Oh that. It's my crazy husband. Everyone knows he's an eccentric crackpot."
Also, we don't talk politics or have any political material in the presence of Cadets.

 

[UHBlackhawk]

My first master's is in public administration which is part political science, part management, and part history. We had to read the works of Karl Marx yet they weren't teaching us to be Marxists.

Yet what I found when I had to read Karl Marx in high school and college and my kids had to read him in high school was that there was no mention of Bastiat or others who criticized the writings of Marx. No mention of the dark side of that ideology.

 

[ders_dad]

There’s all flavors of conservative and liberal at USNA, just as there are in the country as a whole. Here’s hoping they get all mixed up and live in each other’s pockets for four years and remember what it’s like to disagree but respect each other and their differences. We desperately need places that do that mixing.

 

[Devil Doc]

Yet what I found when I had to read Karl Marx in high school and college and my kids had to read him in high school was that there was no mention of Bastiat or others who criticized the writings of Marx. No mention of the dark side of that ideology.

Woodrow Wilson is the father of public administration and made Marx look like a Reagan Republican.

I tell my high school students to research and discern what you believe is right. To take no teacher’s word as truth just because they are teachers.

I have written on my board: Never let schooling interfere with your education. - Mark Twain